Is questioning others and taking opposing viewpoints a bad thing?

Discussion in 'General Education' started by AlwaysAttend, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    Later I will provide links from a series of better sources when I have my computer rather than the phone. They are abundant.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2017
  2. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    OK. Now this will be easier. It is a mixture of articles.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1420798/

    http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2015/as-good-as-it-gets-peer-review-and-its-discontents/

    https://www.economist.com/news/lead...it-needs-change-itself-how-science-goes-wrong

    http://www.nature.com/news/faked-peer-reviews-prompt-64-retractions-1.18202

    Regarding the previous article linked, just because it may be in a type of website you find skeptical, doesn't mean that it is out-and-out wrong. You do need to read it with skepticism and also look to see what it uses to back up its claim. We do know from the other information I have now linked that there are problems with peer-reviewed work. There has also been inability to demonstrate reproduction of psychology research, http://science.sciencemag.org/content/349/6251/aac4716 , which has all been peer-reviewed prior to determining if it the accepted conclusion was reproducible and valid.

    So, I do question the validity of peer-reviewed research because it has been shown that there is becoming more and more evidence that there is a problem with the way research is vetted.

    The other thing I want to be clear about is I said there is a lot of slanted data and studies out there. I did tie my comment specifically to peer-reviewed journals. Since most people who offer their opinion do not use peer-reviewed journals to back up their opinion, it is accurate that there is a lot of bad data out there. The media is notorious for taking a piece of research and claiming it said something it did not. People use this information to form their opinions and will use these "facts" as their proof. Very few people actually go to the pure research (which is now suspect) to back up their claims. Even then, much data that is used is cherry-picked to support a hypothesis. Studies are not well designed. Data can be manipulated or pulled out of context to support a point.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2017
  3. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    I do believe that tone and how something is challenged is often one of the key factors which will make someone get upset. For example,

    Tone is important. I agree the article I first linked was weak in academic merit. It was lazy on my part because I was replying when I probably shouldn't have been. I could have waited until I had an easier mode of communication. The response I received was not one that fosters continued cordial discussion unless the one it is said to decides to overlook the tone of the reply.

    I will admit to using less than stellar tone at times also, but it is one of the discussion killers.
     
  4. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

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    Is it inappropriate for me to comment "Get a room" to these two?

    Yeah, it's probably inappropriate.
     
  5. PrettyQueenBee

    PrettyQueenBee Rookie

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    Since pre-calc doesn't have a state test, I can teach whatever I want out of the pre-calc book. The district made a "curriculum" for the pre-calc courses, but we all pretty much ignored it. lol For instance, I don't care for vertical shift so I never teach it. I love vectors, although they won't see it again unless they take physics (which some of my students were currently enrolled in) or Calc III in college. Also, I was strictly referring to formulas in pre-calc. The harder ones to remember: Those 2 billion trig identities, DeMoivre's Theorem, Sum & Differences Formulas, etc. But if I were teaching my geometry class, I wouldn't provide a staple formula such as the Pythagorean Theorem, LOC or LOS. Those are essential formulas that they will need to remember in Algebra II and pre-calc. You'd be surprised at the amount of students who didn't need the formula sheet, because they had so many practice problems to do, that they naturally remembered the formulas. It all makes sense. I don't have to force them to remember formulas, because after the loads of homework and assignments they automatically remember what to do/use. I feel as if you put to much pressure on them to remember formulas, not only will they forget the formulas, but they'll also forget the *why* factor. It worked for me in college, so I decided to do the same for my babies.
     
  6. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Article one discusses what it means to be peer reviewed reflecting the quality of the source it comes from.

    Link 2 is a blog written by a 2nd year grad student.

    Link 3 is an economic publication with no listed author.

    Link 4 details fraud much like the vacine study I mentioned. You can't really stop people from committing fraud, you can only catch them.
     
  7. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Probably inappropriate if you have to ask haha
     
  8. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

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    I see. We have to follow our curriculum, but we write it so it's not so bad. How do you not do vertical shift lol? Do you do all the other transformations? Vertical shift is the easiest one---I always tell them if they can't identify any of the other transformations appropriately, they can at least tell me up 3.
     
  9. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Everything except pythag went over my head. I used it with G&T 5th graders to make either a baseball field or school model. I can't remember which because it was over my head lol.
     
  10. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Fair enough on tone. I'm also a bit of a ***** at times. Insert your own word because I'm not sure if cursing is allowed here. I assume no lol.
     
  11. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Jeez, maybe you two should start graphing.
     
  12. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

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    I'm always down to graph.
     
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  13. PrettyQueenBee

    PrettyQueenBee Rookie

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    We write our curriculum as well. If the class has a state test (Algebra I, II, and Geometry), we must follow the curriculum or we'll be in hot water. But if the class doesn't have a state test (Pre-calc, Bridge Math, stats, Advanced Alg. & Trig), we don't have to. The curriculum for those classes are in place for teachers who've never taught the class before or just want a structured guide to follow. AP Calc is different because those students take a test for college credit, so we have to follow that curriculum as well. Most students take Algebra I in 8th grade, which means they'll take AAT in 11th, then Pre-calc in 12th OR go straight to Pre-Calc in 11th and take AP Calc in 12th. Depends on scheduling and what the student wants. Also, yes we do all of the other transformations. They know how to graph trig functions by hand and by calculator. I teach them by hand first. You should see their facial expressions when I teach them by calculator LMAO! They get sooooo annoyed because they "could've saved so much time." They're missing the point. What if you didn't have a calculator or I decided to be petty one day and say "no calculators on today's quiz?" How would you graph it then? lol they're so cute. But honestly, I don't care for vertical shift. I think every teacher has a topic in their content that they just don't care for... Not that it's hard... just don't like teaching it. Vertical shift is mine.
     
  14. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    I don't need no stinking calculator. I have the photomath app lol.
     
  15. PrettyQueenBee

    PrettyQueenBee Rookie

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    Oh, I meant to ask: To TrademarkTer- I'm assuming you've been teaching math longer than I have. Have you ever taught Geometry? If so, how do you teach Surface Area to your students? I taught it last year, and they understood everything I've ever taught except for that particular topic.
     
  16. PrettyQueenBee

    PrettyQueenBee Rookie

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    You cheater! lol
     
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  17. PrettyQueenBee

    PrettyQueenBee Rookie

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    Let's go !!
     
  18. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

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    I haven't been teaching too long---5 years, but I have taught geometry my first two years. When I taught geometry, we followed the Common Core, which doesn't have surface area in the HS geometry curriculum so we never taught surface area...only volume. It did seem a bit strange. What about it gave them difficulties?
     
  19. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    I don't have to cover what you guys do. With that said, I like having kids find the area of their hand by tracing on graph paper. Theoretically, I might ask if that covers their entire hand and see if they could come up with a way to find the area of their entire hand. Discuss and share strategies. Find numbers using their made up strategies. Then start talking about surface area of shapes.

    Unless this isn't what you mean.
     
  20. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    You are absolutely correct. Excellent post! ;)
     
  21. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Phenom

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    I would give you my opinion but it might not be the "right" one and "offend" someone. Lots of snowflakes get offended quite easily.
     
  22. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    No need for name calling. I think this falls in line with my tone mistake earlier.
     
  23. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Phenom

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    I was referring to you but speaking in general referring back to my original comment that anytime someone has an opinion people have to say something about it if they don't agree with it. Sometimes many people don't give their opinions because they are afraid others will start complaining.
     
  24. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    I have no problem listening to complaining, I do that professionally.
     
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  25. PrettyQueenBee

    PrettyQueenBee Rookie

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    I haven't been teaching for long either, but you've been in the profession a few years more than I have. That's the thing: Unfortunately, our state uses CC, but surface area isn't in the HS curriculum.. only 7th grade I believe. Anyway, the lady who's over math instruction for our district wanted us to throw it in anyway. I don't want to say too much or why she did it for the sake of anonymity. Never know who lurks these pages.

    Nevertheless, I can see we have some differences as to how we teach and I can appreciate that. You made awesome points in your original post about the formula situation. I minored in math (stats) in college, and I had a professor who did nothing but drill formulas into our heads. He never took it upon himself to teach us how to use them... just wanted us to remember them. Needless to say I was one of the few who passed his class. I appreciate running into people on here and in life who teach the same subject as I, but are completely different. When I did my student teaching, my mentor teacher and I were polar opposites. But we learned so much from each other. Mind you she's been teaching for 15+ years. We keep in contact daily and we collaborate frequently. That's what it's all about! She didn't judge me for being different and vice versa. I'm not sure why teachers feel like fellow teachers in their content needs to teach exactly the same way or else their methods are "incorrect". What works for their students may not work for mine. Especially since I teach at an urban school (and came from one).

    Speaking of those types: There's a person in this forum who will literally pop up in every topic I post in. Especially if that person senses that someone disagrees with me. It's getting creepy! I already have to deal with the men in real life who are obsessed with me. :tearsofjoy:
     
  26. PrettyQueenBee

    PrettyQueenBee Rookie

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    Some of the major differences her and I had:
    She rarely allowed the use of calculators (unless it had something to do with trig or graphing) whereas I encouraged the use of calculators.
    She required students to memorize the unit circle, whereas I gave it to them on quizzes and tests (but I told them they had to memorize negative angles and negative radians since it's so easy)
    She didn't like using powerpoint on the promethean, whereas I did.

    Major things we had in common:
    Giving lots of practice problems
    No credit for a problem that didn't show work
    Deduction on late assignments
    Lock and close the door as soon as the late bell rings lol
    Accuracy: If the answer is -3, I expect to see just that. Because if it were the state test and they put 3 instead of -3, it would be marked incorrect.
    Using pencils

    One of the things she learned from me that she does with her geometry class now is have them label their triangles before they do anything else: (a)adjacent, (h)hypotenuse, (o)opposite. If a student is struggling with the topic, I make it a requirement that they label their triangles with a, h, and o. But if they understand, it's their call. Most of them understood and still labeled their triangles. It helps reduce the chance of using the wrong trig identity.
     
  27. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    I think you'll find most people just visit the new posts and their alerts. I wouldn't say anyone on these forums really care who they're posting to or about.
     
  28. PrettyQueenBee

    PrettyQueenBee Rookie

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    Oh no, trust me - he/she cares. A lot. They take shots at me and I'm not sure why. Never seen anything like it.
     
  29. PrettyQueenBee

    PrettyQueenBee Rookie

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    We've had "run-ins" in other parts of the forums. That's where it came from. You know how you have those people who are on the outside, but so thirsty to get in they'll do or say anything in hopes of someone agreeing or liking them? Those who fiend for attention because they're lacking in other areas of their miserable life? Reminds me of that.
     
  30. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    I'd just send them a direct message and tell them how you feel. It might really be a misunderstanding.
     
  31. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    I love how many twists and turns this thread has taken!
     
  32. PrettyQueenBee

    PrettyQueenBee Rookie

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    Same here.
     
  33. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    Link 1 also discusses the serious problems within peer-reviewed research.

    Link 4 also explains that there is fraud which means you must be very careful when using peer-reviewed articles because there is a growing amount of fraud in what is supposed to be accurate and accepted research. Some of the fraud was rather obvious which means the peers did not catch it. That puts peer-review in question especially in this time of publish or perish.
     
  34. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Which of these is closer to your opinion:

    Sometimes McDonnalds screws up my order -> If they screw up my order, I won't be satisfied -> I shoud check my order before I leave so I am satisfied.

    Some people commit crimes with guns. -> Serious problems can occur from people with guns -> We should ban all guns.

    I'm assuming it will be choice 1.

    Which would you say best completes this logical progression:

    Peer reviewed articles can in RARE circumstances due to fraud have fake information -> if I read fake information I might get the wrong ideas ->

    I should consider the source of info or I shouldn't trust most studies.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017

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