I am starting to think that the principals interviewing me are judging me on my physical appearance and gender. I am male and overweight and am looking to teach elementary ed, 4 5 or 6. I had 11 interviews in Illinois last summer, subbed for the fall, and am just finishing a long term sub position next week. So far this year I have had 9 more interviews in April and May. I am applying to everything that shows up on the ISBE website and I follow up about a week later. When I get the rejection call or letter, they have always said that I was a top candidate, I interview well- that sort of thing. I went back to my university and did several mock interviews, had them evaluate my resume and cover letter and have gotten four good rec letters. But all this confidence drains away when I meet the panel or principal and they seem to spend too much time regarding my waistline. The LTS job I got was also with the only male principal I interviewed with. He was also balding and overweight. I'm starting to think that some of these principals are uncomfortable having a male in an elementary position or something. Is there anything I can do to improve my odds? Illinois is horrid for the elementary job market, but I have four children I'd have to move with me to another state.
The California job market was flooded 4 years ago with new teachers and teachers that had been displaced due to budget cutbacks. I was out interviewing fresh out of my teaching program. I put out applications to over 100 school districts. I interviewed all summer long and I was finally hired the day before school started. I think that you have a lot of competition. Just stick to it, check over your resume and cover letter. At one point interviewing I got so upset I called a principal and asked her what I could do to improve. She said that there was nothing I could do and that it came down to the fact that their was someone who had more experience then I.
Since males are under represented in Elementary schools, shouldn't they be looking to increase the ratios? I know nursing is actively recruiting men at this point in time. It sound discriminatory to me. I'd like to see more men teachers in the lower grades. So many children are lacking positive male role models.
They're allowed to discriminate based on your appearance (you come in unshaved and smelly) but not your gender. It's really hard to prove.
But hard to prove that you wern't hired because of your gender. They certantly shouldn't hire you over someone more qualified or that would be a better fit just because you're a man
I really wish I knew. I asked several of the Principals and the three I asked said I interview well and I was a strong candidate. I keep wondering what more could I have done! I volunteer with youth groups, I coach kids sports, I lifeguarded, all my evaluations in school were stellar- it's frustrating when I don't know what to correct. One principal suggested I take the classes for middle level endorsement, which I am going to do over the summer, but that wouldn't help me get a self-contained classroom. I also had one human resources woman for a city in central Illinois mention in an aside to me that parents in the community expressed concern to the school board over male teachers in the lower elementary grades. Even though I was going for 4 5 and 6, this makes me wonder if the parents wouldn't like that as well. But it's not like they can't tell I'm a male when they offer the interview to me! It's pretty obvious from my resume. I have applied to rural and inner city schools as well, though I didn't apply to Chicago because I don't think I could afford a house in a decent neighborhood on a teacher salary there. (And I'm from the south side, so it's not like I don't know what the schools are like.) I have another interview next Monday in a small rural town about three hours from me, so I'm going to do my best. It's just depressing because all the girls I knew that I graduated with last year found jobs last summer and some of the girls I know locally that are in ele. ed were hired at that Midwest jobfair they had here in March. The other teacher I was also long term subbing with has also already found a job in a nearby town. It makes you stare in the mirror and wonder, "So what's wrong with me?"
I think it is different here in Maine. Last year I was not hired for a second grade position. I had worked in the school, had glowing evaluations, and letters of recommendation. But I did not receive the job. Not that I wasn't qualified for it, they hired a male teacher. It actually happened a few times. They wanted more males in the building. I had more experience working in a public school than this person, and I had more behavior management skills. He had a behavior student. Oh well I have loved my year here. And have so much more experience now. Just keep looking something will come long!
Hi, I'm from Illinois as well and currently looking for an El. Ed. Job. It is a tough place out here for teachers. I have had few interviews in districts in which I have substituted. As for other school districts, not so much. At least not as of now and I am constantly looking on websites for jobs posted. I have applied in CPS and with the Archdiocese of Chicago for Private Catholic schools. No word yet, but it's an option for you. What districts are you currently looking in? and which districts have you already interviewed with? Let me know, and we can compare stories.
Hi, and welcome! Read back over those two quotes. You sense that you're being discriminated against, then admit that the job market is "horrid" for people with your specialty. Is there any possibility that it's the odds, not your gender or appearance, that's really in your way? Would you consider broadening your certification areas? Include some that are more in demand (exactly which areas depends on the market where you live.) Hit the interview thread, maybe we've covered some of the questions that are giving you problems.
many teaching jobs somewhat discriminate against women because they know that adding a male to the staff will benefit the children. This is not to say that you are not being discriminated against. However, I would encourage you to file a complaint with your local civil rights agency. Because they have more power to investigate. Most people would agree that men and women are different. And most people agree that we act differently to different genders. Thus, maybe you interviewed better with the male principal. The fact that you are getting interview calls while your gender is apparent from your resume should suggest that you are not being discriminated against. But who knows. If you feel that you are file a complaint. Otherwise just keep on plucking away.
I agree with Alice!!! It may very well be the flooded job market you are in. I am a very analytical person, and as such, I have been thinking about the interviews I have had, only a handful. We have a saturated market here, beyond so. So, about my interviews: First of all, all but one (which would have been a nightmare job) had received hundreds of resumes each. So, right there, was a problem. Second, I know that at least 2 of the jobs had been filled and the interviews were just being done for a paper trail. One of the other jobs went to someone who lived in the district town, one went to a friend of the principal's friend (she told me). The other one I believe I had a chance. Unfortunately when I walked in I got a bad impression of the school, not the physical aspects (the school was nice), but I encountered some extremely rude staff members. There was a lot of tension there. I would have had a tough 45 minute drive only to deal with that everyday. As much as I want to teach, as much as I am becoming more sad every day, I do NOT want to be in an environment like this one. They were still running the ad for that several months later. That impression led to me being not so enthusiastic with interview. I answered the questions, and had a verynice chat with the man, but never followed up because I would not have wanted to work there. I think maybe he knew it, sometimes we cannot hide everything. I tried though. So, I look at it this way: every interview is different, so unless you get accurate confirmation about something (like I did with 3 of them), you will never really know. I would put the idea of your appearance being the issue out of your head. I know you are thinking about that, but try NOT to. The last thing you want to do is become more upset and unintentionally show that in your subsequent interviews. I know how hard it is, believe me. I am blessed to have caring friends, a husband and a mom who believe in me. (My dad, we wont go there. ) They all tell me to keep at it, and assure me that it is not me. I really do believe them, but it hurts. Take care of yourself. I think you should keep trying, you will find your school.
They are trying to get rid of the Chicago residency policy. Not sure how successful it will be. I am single and live in an apt. A few things, 1) if you get a job here, you have awhile before you have to move. 2) There are several "belts" of teachers, firefighters, and police that live on the outskirts of the city on the north, south, and west sides. Many could spit on Niles. 3) There are some incentives for teachers to buy in the new mixed income communities that are part of HUD (in the areas of former/changing public housing). Not sure if that is something you would or wouldn't be interested in. 4) You do not have to move in the city until 6 months after you have started a job. 5) People lie about their addresses all the time. I live int eh city, but I don't have a family to worry about. I could never afford to buy ah house in my current neighborhood. As for the jobs. I'd say if you upped your grades a bit like say 6/7 instead of 4/5/6 and if you are able to teach math or science you have a much better chance. If you are a male and willing to teach elementary I'd see it as an asset. Rememebr our elementaries are PK - 8, K-8 or 1-8 for the most part. The CPS job fair is Saturday. Navy Pier. Dress nice, bring your resume. See what's out there. CPS does have jobs open, they just are not usually in the magnet/selective enrollment schools. Most openings are probably on the south and west sides in neighborhood schools.
I am currently looking for a full time teaching position in Florida. I have a 4 year degree in Economics and Para and some sub experience. I went to the job fair and there were not alot of schools there. I did interview with several and they all went fairly well. I think there is alot of competition for elementary schools. I am looking for K-2nd preferably. Any advice, let me know.
from Central IL It is NOT your gender or appearance. This area is so saturated and everyone I know has gotten hired because they worked in the school as something else (T.A.- sub) etc. YOU HAVE TO KNOW A PRINCIPAL WHO IS WILLING TO ASK AROUND FOR YOU AND GET YOUR NAME TO OTHER PRINCIPALS. I got my position after being a T.A. for a couple of years and then doing a long term sub job. Don't give up!
I don't think it's you!! The job market is awful in so many places, here in New York we're saturated too. I had a principal tell me the other day that he had received over 1000 resumes. 1000!!! I would keep at it, I've been on a lot of interviews that went nowhere too. Good luck!
Remember, too... there are a lot of jobs that are NOT posted on the ISBE site. At least in the Chicago suburbs, most (not all, but the vast majority) have online applications and may post their vacencies just on the district website or the county website... they don't need to post of the ISBE site to attract postential teachers! If you don't have thm, here are some suburban ROEs that have postings... www.teachinkane.org (Kane County consortium... one app for all their districts) http://www.will.k12.il.us/teachervac/vacansies.htm (Will County... this is updated monthly, but a lot of the districts themselves update more often than that) Grundy and Kendall County: http://www.grundy.k12.il.us/ Lake County: http://www.lake.k12.il.us/roe_sch_vac/index.htm DuPage: http://www.dupage.k12.il.us/teachers/vacancies.html Cook (non-CPS): http://www.cook.k12.il.us/ Hope that helps!
Whether or not an interviewer is judging you based on physical appearance is something you will never be able to prove. Part of any interview has alot to do with body language. So, while I don't think you are being judged on your physical appearance, you may want to re evaluate your non verbal communication! Be confident...
I took a lot of the advice from this thread into mind when I went to my interview today. Thank you all for your help! It was a three hour drive, but I got their early to check my appearance and freshen up. It was a panel interview with 4 teachers, the outgoing Principal, the asst. Principal, the incoming new principal and an human resources. Most of the questions I have encountered before and knew how to answer. Two were odd though. "Would I feel odd as a male working in a female dominated environment?" This I answered by indicating that my current position includes only 2 male faculty members besides the male principal, and that gender has no impact on me. I also mentioned my wife so they didn't think I was some sort of single guy that might harass the other teachers. "What would I do if a student made inappropriate sexual advances or comments to me." I have been asked some form of this question a few times, so I gave the standard answer of telling the student that this was inappropriate for the classroom and then would report the incident to the principal. The first time I was asked this question, I thought it was regarding if I heard students making sexual comments to eachother, how would I respond. I answered this like any other disciplinary question. Then the inteviewer clarified it by saying they wanted to know what I would do if the student made the comment to me. They are going to call desired candidate in two days. Unfortunately, I don't feel confident about the interview because I feel that because my gender has been brought into the interview again with the -will you fit in- question, it means they aren't comfortable with male elementary school teachers in that area. I have to wonder, is the sexual advance thing a common interview question to females as well? I've been asked it a few times and I would be really upset if it's not a gender-blind type of question. I would assume high school job seekers would be asked more often, but I'm looking for elementary. either way, I'll know pretty quick and then it's back to the follow ups and applications. The new postal rate is not going to help!
Those questions sound very discriminatory, if you do not get hired I'd call the human resources department (without giving your name) and ask if interviewers are allowed to ask gender related questions. It's no different than when an interviewer asks me how long my husband will be stationed at our current location or if an interviewer asked a mother if she'd really be ok leaving her child at home. They shouldn't be asking questions that are related to sex or marital issues. They're opening themselves up for a lawsuit if they're being that blatent about it.
Oh, and I've interviewed more than most (because I move a lot) and I've never had anyone ask a question about sexual advances. I'd probably be caught off gaurd and say eew
I was kind of thinking that the gross question was asked because there was just a big sex scandal in some of the schools midstate, and a male teacher was involved with this. I figured they were just trying to cover their backs, but honestly! Wouldn't even a psycho grosso pedophile type dude just give 'approved' answers? I have been asked in round-about-ways about these sort of things, but this was the first time that they were point-blank, in your face. I wish I could just go to an interview and not be asked this crud. It gives me more respect for my mom's generation and the crap she must have put up with.
It sucks and I would go ahead and call the human resources department if you don't get the job and tell them that their principals are breaking the law.
I don't know if I want to stir up trouble though, ya know? What if I get blacklisted or something? They're going to know it's me unless other men have interviewed for the position as well and were also asked this.
That's true. Then you should wait until the school year starts to complain. I hate those questions that are aimed directly at you that have nothing to do with your teaching ability. I got one asking how long it had been since I'd been in a classroom. Implying that because I stayed home for three years that I wouldn't be able to handle teaching anymore.
I have been asked a similar question during interviews for some of my positions, i.e. What would you do if a male college student made inappropriate advances toward you? I usually laugh at the interviewers...and then respond..."your kidding right? no, in all serious, I would remind the student I am happily married to my husband of 12 years, and I am sure someday they will find the person right for them, but it sure isn't me. Afterwards, I would report the incident to my supervisor, and/or the counselor to ensure it is followed up on." And when I say the years, I always wiggle my fingers and bring forward my wedding ring.
I agree! That's way out of line to ask those questions. I work in a female dominated profession and that type of question would never be asked, and nurses actually do very intimate care to both male and female patients.
This is a very borderline illegal question similar to the totally ILLEGAL question: Do you think you would be comfortable working for or with someone of the opposite sex? Which the legal suggested response is..."As long as a person is qualified, I have no problems working for or with someone of the same or opposite sex." However, this question gets asked of women in engineering, construction, police, military, and firefighters. It also gets asked of men in teaching, nursing, and secretarial positions. IME, try to redirect this question to something totally legal. I'm not sure what your actually asking...Are you trying to ask if I have a problem working with colleagues? Or, if I have problems communicating with my principal/supervisor? Or, how I handle working in a team of teachers? What exactly do you want to know? As I already mentioned, the sexual advance question (which is legal) comes up due to teaching students of the opposite sex. Good luck!
Gwen, You sounded so much like me 4 years ago. I was fresh out of the credential program, when a lot of teachers at my student teaching assignment got RIFF notices. Sounded like a really good time to find a teaching job at your favorite school huh? I also did send out ton and tons of paper work all summer long, got really disappointed, and has just subbed since then. At this point in my life, I've moved to Riverside County where the job market seems to be better, but still competitive.
