"Interesting" conversation with a teacher

As for gr3teacher's scenarios, much depends on what the issue is - whether there is in fact anything Person B could do within reason to improve Person A's lot - and specifics of the encounter, not to mention the history between A and B.

As for futuremathsprof's, the sub was way out of line. It's scarcely even her business whether one is married, let alone why or why not. "That's my business, thanks" is a good response; on first question it can be delivered with a smile and perhaps a change of topic, and if the asker persists, the response can be repeated until the asker gets the message and lays off.
 
czacza said:
Consider you being ‘rubbed the wrong way’ is on you. The person sending prayers may genuinely believe they are helping in the same way the person does who is offering if there is anything they can do.
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Do they though? I mean, I'm not the religious type, but do people really think they are being helpful when they say that? I guess it's a philosophical difference... I just can't wrap my head around that.
 
gr3teacher said:
Do they though? I mean, I'm not the religious type, but do people really think they are being helpful when they say that? I guess it's a philosophical difference... I just can't wrap my head around that.
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I think it's often meant as a similar sentiment as "I'll be thinking of you" or "Wishing you the best / a quick recovery".
 
gr3teacher said:
Do they though? I mean, I'm not the religious type, but do people really think they are being helpful when they say that? I guess it's a philosophical difference... I just can't wrap my head around that.
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Yes. People who believe in the power of prayer believe they are being helpful.
 
As a born again Christian, full disclosure, I find this thread interesting. I believe in Jesus Christ, the Trinity, salvation by grace through faith and a host of other doctrines from the Bible. I have studied many religions and have concluded that the Bible is right. The Bible also directs us to share our faith.
That said, I do not share my faith with some of you because I read your posts and certain of you have all made it clear that you don't want to hear about it, and you have made your spiritual choices. That is your privilege and I respect it. I don't encourage you to examine what I would have to say about spiritual matters because some of you make it abundantly clear you don't have an interest in it, even to the point of mocking/minimizing it. That's your privilege and right, and I respect it. It's not that I don't care about you, I just realize you are disinterested or even, in some cases, opposed to my faith or the sharing thereof. It is respect for you that I don't blather on about my faith, not a lack of concern. Also, this is probably not the best venue for that kind of sharing, and is not the best way to have that level of conversation as we are connected here to discuss education.
That said, when some people share their faith, it is out of concern, care and enthusiasm. Sometimes, that enthusiasm can be over the top for some people. When I express that I will pray for you, I will literally spend time talking to God about your needs. I am actively doing something for you. Additionally, I will offer to help you in any way you see fit. I think a different perspective is that the care and concern and prayers and evangelism comes from a loving place, even if to you it comes off as rude and obnoxious. I apologize anytime someone is insensitive toward your desire to be left alone. If I could talk with your friends, I would definitely encourage them to scale back until you reached out to them. Sometimes what I hear people say, or read what some have said to you, I cringe. That cringe comes from their delivery and their manner of speaking, not because I think they are trying to do a bad thing.
It is instructive to hear your reaction to a person's concern/prayers/evangelism. At times, I myself have found the zeal of the Jehovah's Witness movement to be aggressive to the point of being offensive. I can imagine that you get tired of being the focus of someone's evangelistic tactics. I'm sorry you were offended, put off and aggravated. If anyone here ever wanted to discuss a spiritual matter, I am always available to them via PM.
Just another perspective...though I will agree that the person should have had better discernment.
 
czacza said:
Yes. People who believe in the power of prayer believe they are being helpful.
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I give most people the benefit of the doubt and say that I think that they are genuinely expressing something that they believe can help and are trying to do something good.
 
Joyful! said:
. When I express that I will pray for you, I will literally spend time talking to God about your needs. I am actively doing something for you.
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I'm going to have to respectfully agree to disagree with you here by saying that when you tell someone you're going to pray for them, you are actively doing something for yourself. I believe that you believe you're doing some good, but in reality, religion is always for you, not the other person. My religion is what works for me, just as Christianity is what works for you. You said this yourself, you studied several religions and actively decided that Christianity is right for you. I've actively decided that it's wrong for me. Logically then, you praying for me (or anyone just using me as an example) is for you.

And by the way I'm not trying to be an arse about this, that's my opinion of all religion. Mine is for me, not you. I have several reasons I don't discuss religion outside of certain circumstances including people get up in arms about it (not you, just in general).
 
Aces said:
I'm going to have to respectfully agree to disagree with you here by saying that when you tell someone you're going to pray for them, you are actively doing something for yourself. I believe that you believe you're doing some good, but in reality, religion is always for you, not the other person. My religion is what works for me, just as Christianity is what works for you. You said this yourself, you studied several religions and actively decided that Christianity is right for you. I've actively decided that it's wrong for me. Logically then, you praying for me (or anyone just using me as an example) is for you.

And by the way I'm not trying to be an arse about this, that's my opinion of all religion. Mine is for me, not you. I have several reasons I don't discuss religion outside of certain circumstances including people get up in arms about it (not you, just in general).
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Fair enough. Like I said, I respect your opinion. We don't have to agree on everything to be good colleagues or even friends. I wouldn't think you were trying to be a pain. :) I'm glad you are satisfied with your choice, and as mentioned, I am not here to convince you otherwise. Generally speaking, I don't discuss spiritual matters under these circumstances either. It just seemed I could add something for people to consider. :)
 
Joyful! said:
Fair enough. Like I said, I respect your opinion. We don't have to agree on everything to be good colleagues or even friends. I wouldn't think you were trying to be a pain. :) I'm glad you are satisfied with your choice, and as mentioned, I am not here to convince you otherwise. Generally speaking, I don't discuss spiritual matters under these circumstances either. It just seemed I could add something for people to consider. :)
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Agreed. I don't like it when people of any religion have this mindset that if you don't follow the same religion as I do we can't be friends or at the very least civil.

I have a coworker who hasn't said five words to me in three years because she found out that I am not Christian. In her little World, I don't think I actually exist.
 
Aces said:
Agreed. I don't like it when people of any religion have this mindset that if you don't follow the same religion as I do we can't be friends or at the very least civil.

I have a coworker who hasn't said five words to me in three years because she found out that I am not Christian. In her little World, I don't think I actually exist.
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I'm glad we can continue to have great conversations. Sorry about the co-worker.
 
gr3teacher said:
Honestly, I don't particularly appreciate hearing somebody is praying for me. I know there's no malevolence involved; they think they are being kind. But it's also a way to get out of a conversation without the possibility of needing to provide real help. Example:

Person A: [sad story]
Person B: Thoughts and prayers
Person A: Thanks

Alternate scenario
Person A: [sad story]
Person B: Well if there's anything I can do to help...
Person A: Well actually... (or) Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

In one situation, Person A gets words. In the other, Person A gets the possibility of some assistance if it's needed.

I know there's a decent bit of illogicality to it, and I certainly know I'm overthinking it... the whole prayer thing just always rubs me the wrong way.
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Religious people are more likely to be charitable than non-religious people are.

"Religious practice is the behavioral variable most consistently associated with generous giving. Charitable effort correlates strongly with the frequency with which a person attends religious services. Evangelical Protestants and Mormons in particular are strong givers."

https://www.philanthropyroundtable.org/almanac/statistics/who-gives
 
Joyful! has expressed her feelings and spiritual nature and beliefs in a way that is welcoming and respectful to others. I appreciate that. When someone is not coming from such a place as Joyful!, it doesn't come across as well. And, true, evangelizing is not the purpose of the forums here, though we have a prayer forum. The important thing is that members can choose to visit that forum or choose to avoid it. If someone insists on pushing their own beliefs on someone else, it comes across as superior and demeaning. Probably not the intention of any religious ethic. Whether an offer of prayer comes across that way or not depends on the internal and even unconscious intentions of the person offering it. When we feel offended, we may sense that the intentions are not welcoming or respectful. As in most things, actions speak louder than words, but that doesn't help too much on the computer.
 
ms.irene said:
There are also many who believe in satire...
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I'm not sure why my response needed such clarification. The question was why going to see The Book of Mormon would somehow make one a bigot.

I replied regarding why some people, notice I never gave my opinion about the play, think that way. It was not an attack on the play or who would or would not want to see it. I just researched why people were against it and clarified why some people think that it is religious bigotry to see the play.

I'm not sure how this is any different from people being offended by satire or "mocking" of Muhammad or Jesus or any other religion or religious figure. Some find it offensive. Some don't.
 
gr3teacher said:
Honestly, I don't particularly appreciate hearing somebody is praying for me. I know there's no malevolence involved; they think they are being kind. But it's also a way to get out of a conversation without the possibility of needing to provide real help. Example:

Person A: [sad story]
Person B: Thoughts and prayers
Person A: Thanks

Alternate scenario
Person A: [sad story]
Person B: Well if there's anything I can do to help...
Person A: Well actually... (or) Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

In one situation, Person A gets words. In the other, Person A gets the possibility of some assistance if it's needed.

I know there's a decent bit of illogicality to it, and I certainly know I'm overthinking it... the whole prayer thing just always rubs me the wrong way.
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Why not both?
I could see my conversation like this going something like this

Person A: [Sad story]
Me: I'm sorry that's happening! Oh my gosh!! Is there anything I can do to help?
Person A: No not really
Me: Okay, well if there is anything please let me know! And in the meantime, I will say a little prayer for you.
 
I personally would never tell someone I'm praying for them. Sometimes it just seems like a cop out. Sorry, I can't do anything helpful for you so I'll get out of any obligation to help by saying I'll pray for you. This might not be the case in most instances but lately some posts I've seen on Facebook have seemed this way. Of course I would ask if there was anything I could do but unless someone specifically asks for prayer then i'm not even going there.
 
TeacherNY said:
I personally would never tell someone I'm praying for them. Sometimes it just seems like a cop out. Sorry, I can't do anything helpful for you so I'll get out of any obligation to help by saying I'll pray for you. This might not be the case in most instances but lately some posts I've seen on Facebook have seemed this way. Of course I would ask if there was anything I could do but unless someone specifically asks for prayer then i'm not even going there.
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Yeah, and I wonder when someone says "praying" on a post, if they really prayed or just typed that and went on.
 
SpecialPreskoo said:
Yeah, and I wonder when someone says "praying" on a post, if they really prayed or just typed that and went on.
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I really pray, but I'm sure some people don't. When I commit to prayer for someone, it is not a "let's do lunch sometime" escape clause with no meat behind it. It is a commitment of time and earnest communication on the behalf of the situation or person. Prayers are not instead of help. Prayers are in addition to help. At least for the folks in my church, I can say that is the case. For some people, this statement is the case, "More things are wrought by prayer than this world dreams of." If you are a person of prayer, that is your belief. Prayer can change things that people can't. I know that there are hypocrites in every aspect of life, including religious people, or whatever term is appropriate to use there. I know that prayer may not mean much to some. That's okay. It doesn't diminish my belief in its power, and it doesn't diminish my commitment to pray for people. However, I know that by listening to this thread that some people see a promise to prayer as a cop out for physical assistance. That's okay too. It just gives me a clear perspective on the views of others, and I will do my best to be careful not to state that I am praying for those who see it as a polite statement to avoid engagement. I appreciate hearing everyone's viewpoint. It's been instructive. And, I'll continue to pray for those who request it. I think some of this conversation results from so many people of faith lacking wisdom and discernment and faithfulness. You are inspiring me to be super careful. Thanks!
 
Joyful! said:
I really pray, but I'm sure some people don't. When I commit to prayer for someone, it is not a "let's do lunch sometime" escape clause with no meat behind it. It is a commitment of time and earnest communication on the behalf of the situation or person. Prayers are not instead of help. Prayers are in addition to help. At least for the folks in my church, I can say that is the case. For some people, this statement is the case, "More things are wrought by prayer than this world dreams of." If you are a person of prayer, that is your belief. Prayer can change things that people can't. I know that there are hypocrites in every aspect of life, including religious people, or whatever term is appropriate to use there. I know that prayer may not mean much to some. That's okay. It doesn't diminish my belief in its power, and it doesn't diminish my commitment to pray for people. However, I know that by listening to this thread that some people see a promise to prayer as a cop out for physical assistance. That's okay too. It just gives me a clear perspective on the views of others, and I will do my best to be careful not to state that I am praying for those who see it as a polite statement to avoid engagement. I appreciate hearing everyone's viewpoint. It's been instructive. And, I'll continue to pray for those who request it. I think some of this conversation results from so many people of faith lacking wisdom and discernment and faithfulness. You are inspiring me to be super careful. Thanks!
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I think my biggest thing with any religion is that there's a difference between intelligent conversation about religion and a heated debate or a recruitment attempt. As far as I'm concerned as long as we can have intelligent conversation about it, I don't mind discussing religion in the slightest. I've also had way too many people preach at me so I just tend not to discuss it.
 
I agree. Spiritual matters are close to the heart. Your heart is one place that should be safe from angry debate. It's the reason old people always said, "Don't discuss religion or politics." I'm afraid that we have forgotten how to differ without being difficult. I definitely love what I love, but I recognize that other people love what they love. Express, but don't explode. I should make that into a poster. :) Respect and regard people with the respect and regard you would anticipate in return. Because we are living in a world where we are so strident in our views about everything, it's tough to have an intelligent conversation on even the simplest things. I mean, look at some of the discussions on the boards here. We are a society that can make whether or not to give a kid a sticker on a test a major debate point. I think this conversation is a good example of what we can all do when we have respect and regard and a listening ear. Now, back to the thread about baseball. :)
 
I was reading a thread elsewhere and it was discussing helping someone after a difficult situation. The person was upset because they felt like they were being invaded by people offering to bring food to them after a difficult surgery of a family member.

Seems to me that people are looking for reasons to be offended. We live in a country where many people are spiritual or religious. They truly believe that praying helps others just like bringing a dinner will do.

People discuss their lives. Sometimes they tell people things that make others feel that they must do something. Those who are religious who here plights of people do believe prayer will help. Some believe action will help, and as I have stated some don't want that either. Then it makes me question why those who don't want prayer or action dump their plights on others. What do they want? Seems to me it is to hear exactly what they want the way they want it. Is that really fair to others? Those looking for sympathy or empathy will usually end up with a prayer when they tell someone who is religious because that is the most important thing they can do for the person because they believe their soul which is everlasting is important even if the person doesn't believe it or believe it yet. So, how is offering a prayer for someone so bad if you don't believe in it anyway?
 
I'm a Christian and I do name drop God from time to time because He's the most important person in my life. However, I do not think it's anyone's place to disrespect your religion and evangelize, especially in a school setting. I'd be a bit disturbed too, but hopefully that makes you feel more confident in your faith. Always be proud to share it. I have a friend who's a Mormon and we agree to disagree! Yes, I'm one of those non-evangelizing Christians.
 
corunnermom said:
I'm a Christian and I do name drop God from time to time because He's the most important person in my life. However, I do not think it's anyone's place to disrespect your religion and evangelize, especially in a school setting. I'd be a bit disturbed too, but hopefully that makes you feel more confident in your faith. Always be proud to share it. I have a friend who's a Mormon and we agree to disagree! Yes, I'm one of those non-evangelizing Christians.
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Agreed and honestly I have to admit, the area I live in is extremely tolerant and such. So for the most part, I never really have issues. One here or there once in a while. My coworker who doesn't talk to me is I think a special exception to that.

...I mean, this state has a slight history over throwing temper tantrums...

Also Riddle for y'all: a man was born and raised in Boston, as were his parents and their parents. But none of them are American citizens. Why?
 
Joyful! said:
I really pray, but I'm sure some people don't. When I commit to prayer for someone, it is not a "let's do lunch sometime" escape clause with no meat behind it. It is a commitment of time and earnest communication on the behalf of the situation or person. Prayers are not instead of help. Prayers are in addition to help. At least for the folks in my church, I can say that is the case. For some people, this statement is the case, "More things are wrought by prayer than this world dreams of." If you are a person of prayer, that is your belief. Prayer can change things that people can't. I know that there are hypocrites in every aspect of life, including religious people, or whatever term is appropriate to use there. I know that prayer may not mean much to some. That's okay. It doesn't diminish my belief in its power, and it doesn't diminish my commitment to pray for people. However, I know that by listening to this thread that some people see a promise to prayer as a cop out for physical assistance. That's okay too. It just gives me a clear perspective on the views of others, and I will do my best to be careful not to state that I am praying for those who see it as a polite statement to avoid engagement. I appreciate hearing everyone's viewpoint. It's been instructive. And, I'll continue to pray for those who request it. I think some of this conversation results from so many people of faith lacking wisdom and discernment and faithfulness. You are inspiring me to be super careful. Thanks!
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I don't think people should stop praying for others if they choose to do so. I do think it has become something to say. Do you think the 99 people who comment "prayers" on Facebook in response to a post are really praying for these people? Or do they just say it just to have a response?
 
TeacherNY said:
I don't think people should stop praying for others if they choose to do so. I do think it has become something to say. Do you think the 99 people who comment "prayers" on Facebook in response to a post are really praying for these people? Or do they just say it just to have a response?
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I think most do say a prayer. Prayers don't have to be long and drawn out. I bet most pray right when they decide to type their post.
 
Im so glad that a2z finally allows threads like this. I have been coming here for a very long time. I discovered prayer when I was 16. It helped me. My first love moved away and we broke up. I would walk up to our small town Presbyt, church like 1am and walk in (small town church wasnt locked) and pray for her and me. After that my life was like I had an angel on my shoulder watching over me. This was after mom had left a few years earlier (she was an alcoholic). Over 30 years later after my divorce I would pray a lot for my kids and ex. One night right after I prayed for him and went to bed my son called and said he was just held up at gun point while delivivering food. They missed his wallet and didnt hurt him. They were young and stupid so he was "lucky" or dad "helped" Not a church going man (much when I was a kid and into my early 20s), but when I spent time with native Americans and observed their prayers I saw something simple but powerful.
 
There has been a prayer request sub-forum for years. I hope you find it if you haven't already. It has brought me a measure of comfort when I've needed it.
 
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