Inexperienced and Cheap vs. Experienced and Expensive

Discussion in 'General Education' started by SF_Giants66, Dec 22, 2012.

  1. SF_Giants66

    SF_Giants66 Cohort

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    If you were about to begin your career in teaching in a couple years but you had the option to borrow state loans but have to teach in state for them to be forgiven, but your real desire was to relocate out of state, would you stay in state and get the experience and loan forgiveness, or plan on relocating right away?

    The main issue is more that I don't really wanna teach where I live right now, but I could save potentially 10 thousand dollars in loans if I teach here for 2 years. This seems like an easy choice to most people, but if I get a couple years experience, the problem is the area I want to move to increases teacher pay by about 2-3 thousand dollars per year compared to 300 dollars per year where I live now. If I went to apply at schools out of state, will they look at it as in I have 2 years experience so I cost 6000 dollars more than a graduate out of college or that I am more experienced than a graduate right out of college so I'm worth more? It's a rather tough decision because if I find out that I could have gotten a job out of state when I finished college but 2 years later find out I can't I would be pretty devastated because I'd be stuck here at home getting a raise of only like 300 per year for another couple years until more jobs open up.

    So would you avoid $10000 in loan debt which would equal like $115 per month over 10 years and risk being stuck with one job you only wanted to be temporary, or would you transfer out and take a job in a better place to live, better pay raises and benefits, but as a consequence have to pay off $10000 more?
     
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  3. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Will the state help you find a job?
     
  4. jteachette

    jteachette Comrade

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    If you are going to be guaranteed a job in the state where you are, stay there and teach for a couple of years. The job market is tough right now, and it would be better financially. 10,000 doesn't seem like much now, but with interest, and the costs of living on your own, it can be quite a burden to pay back. Do what you can to guarantee your financial future as well as your future career!
     
  5. kpa1b2

    kpa1b2 Aficionado

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    In addition to what czacza said, where is your family?
     
  6. SF_Giants66

    SF_Giants66 Cohort

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    My family is where I am right now, but I would rather move elsewhere even if I have no friends or family there when I get there. Where I am at isn't working for me outside of work or school right now. I am not sure that getting a job here is guaranteed, all that would mean is getting a job in a low income school and a critical needs subject would forgive 10 thousand in loan debt.

    However, what I didn't mention is I also have already accepted $5500 in federal grants which require me to teach at a low income school and critical needs area even after I would relocate. So based on that, do you think a school board out of state is going to be less likely to hire someone that they have to pay around $5000 per year more than someone just getting out of college if they are a school serving low income families? I'll have relative experience but not within the system I am looking at, and I will cost more than a newer teacher and it will still have to be at an income needy school for at least two years.

    That's the scenario right now.
     
  7. teacherintexas

    teacherintexas Maven

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    I sent out one application and got two job offers with nineteen years of experience. I think experience only helps.

    Unless your state is tiny, there's still an opportunity to get away from your current area.
     
  8. SF_Giants66

    SF_Giants66 Cohort

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    I don't know what the ideal loan debt is when graduating, but right now it just below 12 thousand and I have five semesters left. Due to the pell grants, teacher grants, and money left over I only had to borrow 1000 this year and I anticipated if I accept state teacher grants my loan debt will be somewhere around 20,000 when I graduate and if I don't it will be around 30,000. It could even potentially be less if I qualify for federal grants next year as well also, but I have to have a 3.25 GPA and I calculated in order to do that I'd need like a 3.9 this semester because it dropped a bit due to a very hard semester and that is likely not realistically going to happen working a full time job while going to full time school.

    It would make me feel a bit better if schools gave consideration to experience over cost of salary, but I'm not too sure how this all works.
     
  9. kpa1b2

    kpa1b2 Aficionado

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    So, you're saying:

    1.) you want to move out of state, away from your family
    2.) because you've taken federal grant money you must teach in a low income school (Title 1 school?) Most likely either a rural school district or an urban school district.

    3.) if you take the state's grant money you must work in-state at a low income school due to the federal grant money.

    I don't understand what you mean that things aren't working for you outside of work & school. Does that mean family/relationship problems? Can you move to a different part of the state?

    The teaching job market is tough. Schools tend to lay off teachers, hiring very few. Of the teachers my school hired, all but 1, maybe 2 had teaching experience even if it was only long term subbing.
     
  10. lucybelle

    lucybelle Connoisseur

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    So I had a scholarship/loan when I was in school that was about $7000. If I stayed in my home state and taught for 3 years it would all be forgiven. I left after a year to move down to Costa Rica. I don't regret it for a second. Sure I had to pay back some money, but money is not worth my happiness. If you're not happy, figure out a way to pay back the loan and move on with your life.
     
  11. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

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    Could you save up some $$$ first so that you can decrease the cost of your loan?
     
  12. SF_Giants66

    SF_Giants66 Cohort

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    Wow I am so sorry, LOL. I drove everyone in circles.

    Okay here are the things. I have ALREADY accepted Federal Grant money, not State money yet. The FEDERAL grant requires you to teach at a low income school for four years to be forgiven. That requires a 3.25 GPA.

    What I am talking about is the STATE grant money which I have not accepted yet. With that you can borrow up to $5000 per year and if you teach at a low income school and a critical subject area you can get the greater of $5000 or 1/3 per year forgiven, which in my case if I took $10000 over 2 years I would have to teach in-state for 2 years. However, I have to still teach a total of 4 years at low income school to satisfy the federal grants.

    As far as the family situation goes, I don't want to leave to get away from my family, I want to leave to get out of this area.

    However, if I teach 2 years at a low income school, that will forgive my state loans, but my federal grant will require me to teach a total of four years at a low income school, so I would still need to teach at a low income school when I leave.

    The problem is I will be 28 when I graduate so I am kind of getting up there in years so don't want to delay my life for even longer to try to meet more and more requirements of low income or local schools. However, I don't want my loan payments to go through the roof.
     
  13. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    If you're where I think you're located, it's going to be a great deal easier for you to relocate with a clear credential, and the state won't give you one till you've taught for a year or two and completed BTSA anyway.
     
  14. SF_Giants66

    SF_Giants66 Cohort

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    LOL, not in California. Just a Giants fan.
     
  15. kpa1b2

    kpa1b2 Aficionado

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    28 is not getting up there in years! I graduated when I was 23 yrs. old, but didn't start actually teaching until I was 36 yrs. old.

    We've lived away from family for over 22 years. It was hard at first, then it wasn't bad, but as my parents have gotten older, I wish that we were closer. My kids don't know their extended family. I wish that we could afford to move closer to family. I know that's not what you're thinking about right now, but it is something to consider. Even if we could afford it, I wouldn't move until DS graduates from high school.
     
  16. bison

    bison Habitué

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    I understand how you feel. I'm working on my credential and will be graduating noticeably later than my peers as well. Will you be certified in the new state? You might have to go through a relatively expensive process to get your certification moved over. I would teach where you are for a couple of years. Debt is not a good thing, and $10,000 is a lot for a teacher who is just starting out at the bottom of the pay scale. I know it's becoming more and more routine to rack up tens of thousands of dollars in student loans, but that doesn't make it the wisest decision. Student loans are expected to be the next big financial crisis. It's also very difficult to find teaching jobs in most areas right now. Why not at least try to stay where you are for a while, and then if you can't find anything after a certain amount of time, apply in the new area.
     
  17. yellowdaisies

    yellowdaisies Fanatic

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    With the job market as it is right now, I say live and teach where you can get a job. That sounds too simplistic, I know, but it really is the reality right now. DH and I moved an hour away (yes, not much in the grand scheme of things, but significant when all our friends and family live in the former area) for my job, and I don't regret it for a second. I've discovered I would rather teach in an area that may not be my first choice than live in my first choice area and do something else. But that is my personal preference.

    I applied statewide and we moved to the area where I was offered a job first. You could do something like this - apply in both areas and see what happens.

    Good luck to you. :)
     
  18. SF_Giants66

    SF_Giants66 Cohort

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    It is something to consider, but also consider that I like almost nothing about the area I live in right now and I don't want to be here. The area I want to live I will pretty much have absolutely no family or anything which will be a drawback, but given the circumstances I'm pretty much stuck with the choice of living near my family in a town I'm unhappy in which has nothing to do but work pretty much or an area that I want to live that has much more to do to fulfill my needs in life.
     
  19. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

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    I'm not completely understanding why you are so restricted in your choices within your current state. I can see if you were restricted to your specific region of the state, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

    Perhaps it would help if we knew the state you live in, why you think NO part of that state would offer what you want outside of work and which state(s) you feel WOULD meet those needs.

    If you're willing to relocate to another state, I really don't understand why you say your only option IN-state would be to basically stay where you are. What is the difference between getting a place of your own in another state and getting a place of your own in another town of your current state?

    Let me use my own situation as an example.

    I was born and raised in the western tip of NC and I still live here. When I decided to seek my teacher's license, I qualified for a grant of $3,000 IF I would agree to STAY in western NC during the first 3 years of my teaching career. That was an easy decision for me since this is where I want to be anyway. But, I do live in a very small, very rural town with little to no social activities outside of work. Again, I'm OK with that. But if I weren't, I could have moved to Asheville, which is 100 miles from where I live now. That would STILL have met the restrictions of the grant (staying in western NC) while allowing me to live in a more urban area with lots more cultural activities. Of course, my hometown is actually just as close to Atlanta, GA as well as Chattanooga and Knoxville, TN. We joke that we "are about 2 hours from everywhere". I could also have looked for a job in Charlotte, NC, which is about 200 miles away. That would NOT meet the requirement for staying in western NC, but would have provided even more social and cultural activities.

    My point is that, even as "rural" as NC is (generally speaking), there are still large urban areas if I wanted to work there (Charlotte, Raleigh, etc) or I could even move all the way to coast and live on the beach (Wilmington) if I chose. So even in my state, there are many different options for living conditions and social activities.

    You've accepted federal grants that will require you to work in low-income schools for 4 years, no matter where you teach. You have a chance to spend the first 2 years (of the 4) in your current state and, basically, receive an extra $10,000 in loans for free, since the only requirement for forgiveness is that you work in a low-income school in that state. So, yeah, it does seem like a fairly easy choice to me. Unless you live in Rhode Island, you should be able to move a significant distance from your current town to an area that is larger and more exciting.

    If you are willing to share some more information about your current state and why you don't want to stay in the entire state, we might be able to offer some better suggestions.
     
  20. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    I don't understand why you'd be getting $5k more than another new teacher.
     
  21. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

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    He seems to be making a couple of assumptions about the pay scale of the two areas.

    Assumption 1: Out-of-state district supposedly increases teacher pay by 2,000 - 3,000 per year while Current District only increases teacher pay by about $300 per year.

    Assumption 2: If he chooses to work at Current District for 2 years, then apply to Out-of-State district, his "starting pay" at the Out-of-State district would automatically include the two pay increases he would have received if he started there right out of college.

    First of all, SF, you would be well advised to verify the out-of-state district really has been giving pay raises to teachers every year. You will especially need to verify these raises occurred during the last 3-5 years because most districts have frozen teacher pay for the last few years due to the cutbacks on funding and the economy. Other districts have actually reduced teacher pay.

    In your opening statement, you listed the Out-of-State raises as being about 2,000-3,000 per year (then later increased your estimate to 5,000). If starting pay for new teachers is roughly 30k, then you're suggesting the district gives a 10% increase every year. That is a high figure for ANY field. Most pay increases are much smaller than that, percentage wise. If starting pay is 60k, then an increase of $3,000 is still a 5% increase. Even that is fairly high in most industries. Pay increases more typically run around 3% per year, at best.

    Secondly, most districts group a teachers years of experience into a range for determining starting pay. For instance, 1-3 years might be considered Level I for the district, 5-7 might be Level II, etc. Some districts break this down even farther. In my most recent district, I DID receive credit for my past teaching and my classification was something like Level II, Stage 2.

    The reason this is important is that, while the out-of-state district might offer you a little higher salary if you have 2 years experience rather than being straight out of college, it is extremely doubtful they would give you credit for the maximum pay increase you might have earned if you had gone there straight out of college. At best, they may offer you a starting salary $2,000-$3,000 higher than the offer they would have given you straight out of college and even that is not guaranteed.

    Generally speaking, two years experience will give you a decent edge over a new college graduate when seeking employment in the other district, but it isn't going to be enough to make your starting offer significantly higher than that of the college grad.
     
  22. Curiouscat

    Curiouscat Comrade

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    Also, many schools are not willing to pay you for any experience. My system will sometimes give you 1 year on the pay scale for every 5 years experience you bring to the table.

    Well, actually my school system hasn't hired anyone in 6 years because we keep getting cuts from the state and can't pass a levy locally. In the last 5 years we have cut 110 positions from teachers to classified to administration. We are letting go 7 more teachers next year and reverting to state minimums.

    So, I guess I really don't have any advice for you, but I do think you should be aware of the circumstances of many school districts. Good luck with your decision.
     
  23. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    How would teaching in a low SES school delay your life?:confused:
     
  24. SF_Giants66

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    It's not teaching in the low income schools that would delay my life, but being required to stay in state is what I am getting at.

    What I was saying about the salaries is I checked the Salary Schedules by years of experience and in my local area it increases by like 200-300 dollars per year while the area I am considering it increases like 3000 per year of experience. Generally I would assume that if you get hired into a new school district your pay would start based on their scale of how many years of experience you have.
     
  25. kpa1b2

    kpa1b2 Aficionado

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    Not necessarily true.
     
  26. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Not true in my district. Years of out-of-district experience don't generally count. Even if you taught for 10 years somewhere else, you'll most likely start at Step 1 on the pay scale.
     
  27. FourSquare

    FourSquare Fanatic

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    My district only take 2 years of outside experience. Anything after that doesn't count on the payscale.
     
  28. SF_Giants66

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    Well this is good to know, but in a way seems like they are falsifying their salary schedules if they are making public record of what they are paying teachers yet not giving you what they claim you should be getting according to their records.
     
  29. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    I don't think so. It just means that you're being paid based on your years in the district. Read the salary schedules carefully. I bet it doesn't say "years of experience". It probably says "years in the district".
     
  30. SF_Giants66

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    Most of them call them levels or step advancements. Some do says years experience.
     
  31. SCTeachInTX

    SCTeachInTX Fanatic

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    [experience always helps. The kind f experience that makes finding a job a little more difficult would be 15+ years. You have quite a ways to go there. :) Pay off your loans and start your career with some marketable experience that will help you in the long run. ;)
     
  32. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Districts pay for the 'years of experience' that they see as valuable, current, and acceptable. I didn't get credit for 2 years of Catholic school when I came to my district. I have a colleague who taught elsewhere for ten years and then was home with kids for about ten years...she only got 4 or 5 years experience accepted. Out of state may or may not be accepted. A lot depends on how much the school wants you, their budget, recent hiring decisions...Once you are hired and 'on the guide' then the years you accumulate there after will step you up from where you were hired.
     

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