In your opinion.......

Discussion in 'General Education' started by ryhoyarbie, Mar 24, 2009.

  1. ryhoyarbie

    ryhoyarbie Comrade

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    276
    Likes Received:
    0

    Mar 24, 2009

    In your opinion, have schools become worse compared to 10, 20, years ago, etc. with problems like bahavior and students not caring about their studies and barely passing or failing?
     
  2.  
  3. leighbball

    leighbball Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2005
    Messages:
    7,507
    Likes Received:
    3

    Mar 24, 2009

    In the 5 years at my current school, yes I have seen a difference in the kids. I now have a more difficult population that I did 5 years ago.
     
  4. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    4,395
    Likes Received:
    7

    Mar 24, 2009

    Well, yes I think the attitude has changed, but I can't blame it all on the students. They learn from what they see-and parents are very often quick to jump to conclusions, blame those who did not make a bad choice, and fall into general apathy about education.
     
  5. Weazy

    Weazy Comrade

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    478
    Likes Received:
    0

    Mar 24, 2009

    I have only been teaching for three years, but the veteran teachers I work with tell me it has changed drastically. I know it has changed since I was in school!

    I have noticed in my short career that there is apathy, both on the part of the students and their parents.
     
  6. TeacherShelly

    TeacherShelly Aficionado

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,565
    Likes Received:
    0

    Mar 24, 2009

    People have been noticing the precipitious downtrend for years now:

    "I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise [disrespectful] and impatient of restraint." - Hesiod, 8th century BC).

    Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food, and tyrannize their teachers.
    attributed to Socrates by Plato, ~400 BC

    "The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress."
    Peter the Hermit, 1274
     
  7. chebrutta

    chebrutta Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    2,489
    Likes Received:
    1

    Mar 24, 2009

    Well, I'll speak from the perspective of my school years and being a teacher.

    16 years ago - in middle school - we would never have DARED to talk back to a teacher! That meant a trip to the dean's office! And then a detention. And you didn't want a detention, because OMG your parents would KILL you!

    And if you didn't learn your lesson in detention, you got (shhhh... you have to think of it quietly, reverently, and terrified out of your mind) WORK DETAIL. I know one kid who got suspended - that was because he brought a knife to school.

    Work? Yep. We worked our butts off because no one wanted to be held back. We had project-based education. There was no Bright Futures to ensure our way into college. We studied and we learned because that's what you did in school.

    Now? They say what they want, when they want. Parents think the teacher is always wrong. They're sue-happy. Detention is a joke, work detail not allowed, and ISS like a mini-vacation.

    Curriculum is dumbed down, we allow students not anywhere near grade level to continue moving up, and kids graduate from high school barely able to read, write, or complete basic math skills.

    Were we better off 10 or 20 years ago? I'd say yes.
     
  8. Muttling

    Muttling Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,095
    Likes Received:
    2

    Mar 24, 2009

    I hear so many mixed stories about this it's insane.....

    In a staff meeting last week, my principal said "Kids are harder to engage than they were in the 80's." (He got several amen's from senior teachers in the staff.)


    About 10 minutes later he said....

    "This isn't like it was in 1985. We're not allowed to just let the kid who doesn't care sit quietly in the corner and fail." (Again, several amens from the audience.)


    In 1940, the U.S. military had to include math classes as part of basic training. Otherwise, we would not have had enough people capable of doing the math to be book keepers, shop stewards, artillerymen, navigators, etc. to fight WWII.


    From what I can gather, this is not a new problem and it's been a very mixed bag for a very long time.
     
  9. leighbball

    leighbball Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2005
    Messages:
    7,507
    Likes Received:
    3

    Mar 24, 2009

    I do think, however, that testing and NCLB may have changed the schools' attitudes as well as society changing the attitudes of the kids and parents...just my thought.
     
  10. Muttling

    Muttling Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,095
    Likes Received:
    2

    Mar 24, 2009



    I certainly agree. From my understanding, it originated with a 1983 report called A Nation at Risk that was quite pivotal in American education.
     
  11. leighbball

    leighbball Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2005
    Messages:
    7,507
    Likes Received:
    3

    Mar 24, 2009

    Yup, I learned about that in grad school...the report that came out during the Ronald Reagan era...that started it, but I think NCLB and the ESEA Act totally got the ball rolling faster and faster...
     
  12. Blkjacq

    Blkjacq Companion

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2009
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    0

    Mar 25, 2009

    I think someone earlier mentioned this, but parents don't seem to put a big emphasis on education these days. After school activities get more attention and there's a sense of entitlement. The big buzz word is "intrinsic motivation", but how do I as a teacher instill the intrinsic motivation when the kid earns $20 for losing a tooth?
     
  13. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    27,534
    Likes Received:
    6

    Mar 25, 2009

    You can even go back further than that. LBJ started Head Start to help equalize the playing field. Even back in the '60's it was obvious that there were problems in schools, not of our own making, that we had to fix.

    In the 29 years since I've been in front of the classroom, kids themselves haven't changed. Teenagers are still teenagers.

    But so much around them has changed. There are a billion distractions available on a minute by minute basis. Kids, or at least some kids, have more money than they used to, and that buys a whole new set or problems. Families are less stable, and some of these kids carry burdens that I can't imagine. There are many more single parents, so these adults are facing challenges alone that were once split among 2 parents. Kids are also bombarded by so much information that it's sometimes challenging to get them to stop and focus for a second on one particular thing.

    I still think that, with a little luck, some flexibility and the right approach, it's possible to have an incredibly rewarding career as a teacher.
     
  14. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,708
    Likes Received:
    1,670

    Mar 25, 2009

    I agree with many of the posters that education has changed, not for the better, over the last few decades. I think the introduction of NCLB is one reason why schools are discontinuing vocational training. In my opinion, we need to bring back tracking in high schools. Not all children are college bound and we need to train the future mechanics, welders, plumbers, etc. What has improved though, is how we educate our ESE and gifted children. In previous years, many of these children were left languishing in classrooms where they couldn't complete the work, or were not challenged at all. Worst case scenario, many disabled children were denied an education completely.
     
  15. Arky

    Arky Comrade

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2008
    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    1

    Mar 25, 2009

    I agree with you that the kids have not changed that much. I had discipline problems my first years as I do now. I had unmotivated kids then as I do now, but the distractions are more available and kids seem to need to be entertained more. I also agree that we can no longer leave the kids behind that just do not seem to get it. I think the paperwork has increased. It seems harder to get kids the extra help they need like special ed.
     
  16. TeacherShelly

    TeacherShelly Aficionado

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,565
    Likes Received:
    0

    Mar 25, 2009

    I agree with the above.

    I don't have 29 years in the classroom, so my experience is verrrry limited to being a parent in two schools and teaching in one. The parents are highly educated and very motivated AND very respectful of the teachers. They know that volunteering is a privilege, not a right, and they honestly try to help without overstepping. The administration backs the teachers 100%, the principal is not afraid of anything ~especially not a parent, and our school is exempt from many district requirements about HOW TO teach (not WHAT TO teach). Being in this position gives me great optimism about how education can be. My students have all those distractions and way too many privileges in some cases, but they ARE part of a community of caring at school, and they ARE responsible for their own learning (with lots of support and a path strewn with opportunities), and they are expected and empowered to find their own voices. I really see the possibilities.

    We don't teach to the test, but we score very high. I don't put much stock on the test, because our students' high SES is probably the cause of a lot of the high scores. Now, test them on skills like problem solving, social-emotional intelligence, and synthesizing information and they will score high and I will take more credit !
     
  17. paige

    paige New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0

    Mar 25, 2009

    In my opinion yes, schools have changed dramatically. I blame it all on home life. Kids don't care anymore, because their families don't care. Sure you have those few kids that do great, and I would bet that they also have a family that stays educated and cares about what is going on in the class. Parents are more concerned about drugs and their next high. 10 and 20 years ago, parents cared a lot more. They wanted their children to do well. That is why kids have so many behavior problems. They want attention and love, because they don't get it at home, they are looking for that from you, their teacher. To get that attention and love they act out and are loud, so we see this as a problem.
     
  18. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    27,534
    Likes Received:
    6

    Mar 25, 2009

    I don't know a single parent concerned about drugs or getting high. I didn't 10 or 20 years ago either.


    I think we have to be very careful about generalizing and looking for the easy answers.


    Oh, and Paige: I apologize for welcoming you by disagreeing with your second post. Welcome to AtoZ :)
     

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. detailking
Total: 307 (members: 2, guests: 283, robots: 22)
test