Immune to Detention

Discussion in 'Secondary Education' started by SamanthaJ, Oct 14, 2015.

  1. SamanthaJ

    SamanthaJ Rookie

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    Oct 14, 2015

    The standard discipline protocol at JT Catholic school is detention. Detention, detention. Detention is the answer for everything, per my principal. Well guess what? Ok, you probably guessed it, but almost every kid in detention each week is a recurring offender!

    They're immune to Detention!

    Do you have any ideas for discipline for 6th and 7th graders especially, but perhaps a few 8th graders? I'm proposing changes to my principal. These detentions have become so meaningless.


    (Side note, they only have recess quickly after lunch, and I don't supervise that. Otherwise I'd take THAT away.)
     
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  3. MLB711

    MLB711 Comrade

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    Oct 14, 2015

    I'm also at a Catholic school and I've done lunch detention before. They have to eat at a special table away from others and do their homework while they eat. It's effective for some.
     
  4. PoliticalFutbol

    PoliticalFutbol Rookie

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    Oct 25, 2015

    My suggestions:
    Abolish the changes forced on schools for the last 30 years or so,
    Stop making the students believe they are winning the right for alternatives to detention, discipline and everything else.
     
  5. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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    Oct 25, 2015

    Perhaps someone else in high school (I'm not) will have realistic advice for you.
     
  6. Linguist92021

    Linguist92021 Phenom

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    Oct 27, 2015

    If detention, or any other consequence is ineffective, then don't use it. It's only useful if it makes the student not want to get in trouble, because they want to avoid the consequence.
    Try to think of alternatives. Sometimes calling home is effective, other times it won't be. Listen to your students. One of my student slipped and said not to call his dad, because if he's in trouble he won't let him drive his car. Another one said they won't give him money. For these kids, calling home negative and for positive behavior can be very effective.
    Lunch detention is only effective if a kid has many friends to socialize with, if they're loners, it won't make a difference whether they're eating alone or they're eating in detention. For some kids after school detention can be a real drag, because that can mean they have to walk home alone because their friends will be gone by then, or they'll miss their rides (school boss, rides with friends,etc) and now they have to walk home all alone.
     
  7. dgebhart

    dgebhart Rookie

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    Oct 27, 2015

    One thing I have come to realize as a teacher is that we have no way to effectively punish habitual rule breakers. But in reality, the same is true of society. There are plenty of people who are "immune to prison" and we don't have a solution. Unfortunately, the situation with teacher is way worse, because we can't stop them from receiving an education, nor can we control them once they leave the campus. I know this isn't really an answer, but I really truly believe there is no recourse to deal with these students other than 1) stopping the behavior before it happens or 2) positive support to reform. Unfortunately these things don't always work. I try to focus mainly on number 1 in my class and I lean very heavily to supporting the ideas presented in Fred Jones' Tools for Teaching. I would suggest that instead of focusing on how to better punish the kids, focus on how to improve teachers' classroom management and the culture of the school.
     
  8. mustika

    mustika Guest

    Oct 31, 2015

    This case also happens in my school. Some students change their behavior after being sent to detention room. But some, they still do the same mistakes and break the rules. For handling these students, school makes an agreement. There will be a warning letter for them. If they still break the rule after being given a warning letter, school will ask the parent to come. So far, this method is effective.
     
  9. mrbooknampa

    mrbooknampa Rookie

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    Oct 31, 2015

    This is a resource you may be interested in. Lost at School by Greene. It isn't a fix all but it has good strategies.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2015
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  10. Go Blue!

    Go Blue! Connoisseur

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    Nov 6, 2015

    Exactly. If a student does not want to behave and sees no "value" in behaving (or learning) - then they will not. Earning good grades, earning an incentive, positive phone call homes, etc. does not hold enough "value" to many kids especially if they don't respect authority. Like you, I have not seen any effective solutions to permenatley change a student's behavior unless the student decides they WANT to improve (for whatever the reason may be). Most consequences will get students to improve their behavior for a few days but it is not a long-term solution and the child will often return to their previous ways.

    My district likes to preach that all children want to learn and that we just have to find and motivate that spark in each child (while teaching 100+ kids, most at least 3 grade levels behind and coming to school with all types of baggage). Now, even if you believe that, I would argue that some kids are just not receptive to learning - for whatever reason - and they are ruining it for the kids that actually do want to learn. When you teach in an area with large amounts of kids coming to school with this attitude (whether it is a school-wide or district cultural problem), then strict order and control is crucial yet there seems to be no effective/uniform way to enforce this across the district.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2015
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  11. mrbooknampa

    mrbooknampa Rookie

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    Nice Go Blue! Getting a kid to WANT to change, just like all people, is not easy. To elaborate on the book I mentioned, this process may help: first I explain what I want to be seeing (i.e. completing homework, listening at the right time...) and ask, "What's up?" After I paraphrase all of their comments and get as much as I can from them, I explain MY concerns (i.e. want them to be successful, contribute to the class...). I then offer for them to address their and my concerns with a solution. I'm new with it still but it seems worthwhile as an additional strategy in getting students to reach their potential.
     
  12. otterpop

    otterpop Phenom

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    Nov 6, 2015

    I absolutely believe that, WITH the condition that each kid wants to learn something, but not necessarily what today's society thinks they need. Not every kid is cut out for algebra or writing, but the kids who struggle in those areas may excel at auto mechanics or acting. It's unfortunate that we value some kids' skills over others. So many of the crucial programs for the difficult kids have been labeled "unnecessary" classes and cut.
     
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  13. Bak2Math

    Bak2Math Rookie

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    Nov 6, 2015

    Why are they breaking the rules to get into detention in the first place?

    Why is detention better than the alternative?
     
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  14. Go Blue!

    Go Blue! Connoisseur

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    Nov 7, 2015

    Some kids are just non-compliant; they are defiant and disrespectful despite any positive or negative consequences and I'm not even talking about the well-behaved, lazy "do-nothings." Many of these kids don't have the mindset "I'll break the rules to get into detention"; their mentality is "I don't care about any consequences so I'm going to do whatever I want, whenever I want."

    Often, the truly defiant and disrespectful kids also behave this way outside of the classroom - with their parents/guardians, when they interact with other adults, the police, etc. Some just break the rules to break the rules because they can/feel that they can and they fear no consequences. This to me is the major problem.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2015
  15. EdEd

    EdEd Aficionado

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    Nov 7, 2015

    Here's the problem with some of the posts in this thread: "Students just _______." This reduces the problem as being inevitable and immune to change. I don't think anyone would reasonable say that, in practice, teachers can produce 100% results with 100% of students. However, the idea that any given student "just ______" (fill in the blank - "wont learn," "won't try," etc.) means you've stopped trying.

    Here's the bottom line as educators: We shouldn't be held completely responsible if a student doesn't learn, because it IS definitely possible that a student could not engage. However, that doesn't mean we get to stop trying.
     
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