I'm very sick of vandalism I can't catch

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Peregrin5, Sep 4, 2013.

  1. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Sep 5, 2013

    OP, something else just occurred to me. It's pretty generic advice, but just in case you've somehow missed it:

    Get a hold of either an overhead or a document camera ("ELMO") to use during class. It's a bit more difficult to be sneaky when the teacher's back isn't turned during class.

    And work on building relationships with kids outside class. If any of your troublemakers are athletes, stop by a game for a few minutes. (Oh, and don't undersstimate the value of a chat with the coach. Good coaches can be a wonderful resource for teachers. If ours hear a whisper of an athlete causing trouble in class... let's just say he's running a LOT of laps!!)
     
  2. pwhatley

    pwhatley Maven

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    Interestingly, one thing no one has mentioned is proximity. You haven't mentioned is, so if I have any suggestion to make (having been in similar situations which, as others have noted, can happen to anyone anywhere) it would be: Try moving around your classroom more, focusing your movements whenever possible near the probably culprits. It's really hard to damage something, especially something stuck to the desk/lab table, if the teacher is breathing down your neck, lol! It's not always easy to do, but the more (and more randomly) you can move around your classroom, the better for sneaky behaviors (and note-passing, lol). Just a thought.
     
  3. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

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    Sep 6, 2013

    The whiteboard dots are actually stickers that I stuck onto each students desk. So one of them happened to have their own ballpoint pen and made a huge mark through it, probably in a split second when my eyes were turned.

    But thank you and thanks everyone else in the thread for giving me more practical advice. I find that I already do many of the things mentioned here, however removing them from the classroom is not really an option for me anymore. They were a HUGE pain to put on, and if I take them off, they'll stop being sticky and will be useless, plus it would probably be a huge pain to take them off. We also use them practically every class, and I don't really like whole class punishments (I can't just take them off for one period, it would have to be all of them)

    I'm thinking that since I have them stay after the bell each day for a few seconds so I can double check everything, I can use that time to check the quality of the dots EACH period, to make sure that they're not damaged, and make it more clear that if you sit at a certain seat you ARE accountable for that dot.

    But I'm definitely keeping my eyes on them, building relationships, and using proximity (though interestingly, what I've found is that the more you move around the more you miss, especially when you just pass a student, he knows you're probably not going to immediately look back, so sometimes it's better to camp at a certain area in a room--usually near the students you think might be having an issue, and watch the room like a hawk in the corner. That pressure of your proximity on those students for standing there a longer amount of time is also great for getting them into the flow on whatever they're doing, and they'll stay working after you leave).
     
  4. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Sep 6, 2013

    Are you saying you already keep kids after the bell on a daily basis?

    Ummm, that might be a source of problems already. If you know you have to check things daily anyway, that needs to be built into class time, not their passing time. Taking their time away from them from something you need to check on a daily basis is unfair to them. I can tell you, when I was a student, I would have resented the heck out of you because I was a rule follower and I hated being kept after the bell because I was anxious about getting to my next class on time.
     
  5. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

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    Sep 6, 2013

    It's not a punishment keeping after. And by this time, it's become routine. 9 days out of ten I don't have to do it because everything has been cleaned up and their learning logs have all been checked. The just know that it's procedure not to leave when the bell rings, but when I dismiss them. Sometimes if all of the tasks I asked them to do are not done, like passing back article sheets, or cleaning up lab materials, then we will wait until they're all back and they're back at their seats, and I've checked all their learning logs. Usually as I said, it's only a few seconds they're after if any at all.

    I agree last year it would cause resentment because I didn't have that as a rule before that I had to dismiss them instead of the bell.

    This year I haven't heard a single complaint, and they all leave with smiles.
     
  6. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Sep 6, 2013

    I took the words each day to mean each day, not every now and then.

    You might want to hit a stop watch when the bell rings and find out how many seconds you are holding them. You might be surprised how long your few seconds really are.
     
  7. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

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    Sep 6, 2013

    Welp, it's something that I do to ensure that all my expectations for how the class is left are all met. The students understand this, and they don't seem to have an issue with it, but thanks.
     
  8. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Sep 6, 2013

    :dizzy:
    I'm so confused. Do you or don't you hold them each day? You seem to be saying in this post that you do hold them each day but just got done saying you don't. :dizzy: What am I missing?

    I hope you are right that they don't have an issue with it, but I will tell you one thing I do know about kids, they often won't tell the teacher they resent that they resent him because it will then make life harder on them. They do it in more subtle ways. However, I really hope you are right that they don't mind being held after the bell as part of your normal procedure.
     
  9. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

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    Sep 6, 2013

    Well maybe I phrased the procedure badly. It's actually pretty common procedure in most classes. Basically, the bell doesn't release you, I do, so I will release everyone once all the learning logs have been checked, all things are cleaned up, and you're waiting at your seats. To kind of break it down:

    10 minutes before class ends, if we just had a lab, students need to start cleaning up, and checking tools and materials back into me. 5 minutes before class ends, I will give them their learning log prompt. I will begin checking off the learning logs of those who are done and give them permission to pack up. If this is all done before the bell rings, then when the bell rings, they are simply waiting in their seats for my dismissal which I will give almost instantly, or if everything is done long before the bell I will tell them that they can go as soon as the bell rings. However if I don't say this, I expect them not to just grab their things and go when the bell rings but to wait for my dismissal, after I've checked that everything looks good. I hold them to my expectations (clean up, to completing exit ticket/learning logs) from bell to bell. Does that clear it up?
     
  10. dgpiaffeteach

    dgpiaffeteach Aficionado

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    Sep 6, 2013

    I have the same rule that if I'm still teaching, you don't leave at the bell. I haven't held kids late at all yet though. But I can't have them leaving the laptops out and such. However, last year I told kids I'd write them passes to their next class. It's not a big deal at our school. I'd say I have at least five kids a week who come in 30 seconds late.
     
  11. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Sep 6, 2013

    I also have the rule that the students are dismissed by me, not the bell. I think it only works, though, if the teacher has good time management and finishes the class period by the time the bell rings. I dismiss students immediately upon hearing the bell.

    Certainly there are times when strange things happen and the class might require an extra few seconds or minute to get cleaned up. Even so, it shouldn't be the norm or even semi-regular. It's disrespectful to the other teachers whose classes are going to be interrupted by tardy students, tardy because they happened to be coming from a class where they were released late.

    As a student who always did as I was told, I can tell you that I absolutely hated being held after the bell. It happened either because students weren't listening or doing as they were told (I was not in that group) or because they didn't clean up after themselves in a timely manner (I wasn't in that group either). I felt like I was being punished for the actions of my classmates, and I resented that in a very serious way.
     
  12. RadiantBerg

    RadiantBerg Cohort

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    Sep 6, 2013

    In my class, the bell releases you. That's your right. I'm not the most important person in the school, you have other important teachers to go see as well. If there are problems, we will address it tomorrow.
     
  13. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

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    Sep 6, 2013

    Well that's not my policy.

    I have too many things that go missing and equipment that is too expensive to just let everyone leave at once in a chaotic manner without ensuring that everything is in order.

    I have yet to make them late enough that they are tardy for another class. They've always been released within 5 seconds of the bell.
     
  14. RadiantBerg

    RadiantBerg Cohort

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    Sep 6, 2013

    Even so, that usually made me lose most of the respect I had for any teacher of mine that did it.
     
  15. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Sep 6, 2013

    Each school has its own culture and its own way of doing things. While that would NOT fly in my school, apparently it does in Peregrin's.

    He's not the first one over the years who has said it's the way his class is run.
     
  16. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Sep 6, 2013

    One should weigh their time and class mgt against school norm...I teach third grade..I leave enough time for wrap up, clean up before kids move to specials, lunch, or dismissal...and I'd hazard a guess that it takes a 9 year old a bit longer to do those culminating activities than middle or high school students.
     
  17. pwhatley

    pwhatley Maven

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    Sep 6, 2013

    At my school, the bell signals, but the teacher dismisses. At the appropriate time (or bus call), I have the students line up, then I open the door and watch them walk down the breezeway until they reach the teacher on duty at the end of the breezeway. If we didn't do this, it would be utter chaos at the end of the day. I also ensure that my kiddos have put everything up, returned materials, pushed their chairs in, etc. - it only takes a couple of seconds (at most), and I've never had a kiddo miss their bus!
     
  18. Linguist92021

    Linguist92021 Phenom

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    Sep 6, 2013

    I think the teacher has the right to say "I dismiss you, not the bell", but the students need to get to their other classes.
    So in my philosophy, it is my duty to make sure we finish, or stop at an appropriate part and clean up, put everything away, and have the kids leave on time. No, I don't want them to run out at the sound of the bell, but I want them to be able to get up and leave at the sound of the bell.

    If I have issues with the class, I just need to find a way to catch up with the work another day. On Fridays I always have P.A.T. that they earn, so that time is coming out of that.

    At my school we have 1 (!!) minute between classes. Students barely have enough time to leave and get to their other classes (our school is very small though, so it's doable). If I have to, I can keep the kids after 3rd (break), 5th (lunch) and 6th (after school) for a couple of minutes.
    I have only done that with 5th one time this school year (4 weeks) because they do have behavior problems. If I did it several times / week, it would show that keeping them is ineffective.

    Normally with all my classes I just have to ask them to please make sure they put their folders away, return pencils and fix the desks. They do it without a problem. If this became an issue, I think holding them over wouldn't be effective, I would just need to stop a minute or so earlier so everything can be done.

    If I was teaching science with labs, or even teaching anything with materials out, I would need to allow 5-7 minutes to clean everything up. I do plan on having them do some posters, with scissors, glue, markers, (probably pieces of paper everywhere), and I will need to include clean up time in my instructional time. It's either that, or I'm cleaning up after them, which I will not do, or I'm getting mad at them, for something that's not their fault.
     

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