I'm so upset/angry/frustrated/disappointed/confused!!

Discussion in 'Job Seekers' started by MsBee, Mar 26, 2009.

  1. MsBee

    MsBee Devotee

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    Mar 26, 2009

    I could seriously cry right now. Why do nice guys finish last? Why do people who do things early something always goes wrong? Why do things come easy for some people?

    I am so upset. I gave out my references in early Feb. I wanted to give my references plenty of time to fill them out. Well here it is end of March and I am almost begging to get them back. Finally one of them told me that not only did they not finish all of them but they were not going to do anymore for me!! She's says she is to busy.
    So instead she didn't fill any of them out. She only attached the reference forms that I gave her(that are required at these districts) and attached a general reference letter!!

    Now what am I going to do?

    I'm so sad right now. I just want a job and want people to do things the right way. The forms are short and take about 5 min each.
    Now I'm worried that these districts won't accept a letter instead of their form!!
    What do you all think? Help calm my nerves!!!

    Now off to cry...and eat some icecream and cookies in my bed!
     
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  3. McKennaL

    McKennaL Groupie

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    Mar 26, 2009

    I don't understand.. what forms?

    My references write a single letter...and I copy that off.

    *****

    I DID have one reference who promised a letter and (and promised, and promised)...and never did send one. I had others-but his I would have cherished...because I admired HIM so much. It DOES hurt!

    I'm sorry for you. :(
     
  4. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Mar 26, 2009

    Get any sort of references you can; don't worry about the format. If the people you need most won't do it, go on to someone else. But do NOT let applications languish while you wait for someone to do you a favor.

    How many is "All" of them?? That might be the problem.

    Ask each reference for one letter, then Xerox it and forward it with each application or each time you're asked.
     
  5. RainStorm

    RainStorm Aficionado

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    Mar 26, 2009

    MsBee,
    I understand what you are saying. Several of our local districts will not accept reference letters -- you must actually get your references to fill out the district's specific form (and saying "see attached letter" doesn't cut it.) I do many of these forms for people, and you are right, they only take few minutes to fill out. Recently, most of them come via the email and can be emailed back, which is very convenient.

    They do this because they want their very specific questions answered -- not some general letter that doesn't say much. Whether you agree with it or not, it is the way of the future.

    A friend of mine actually didn't get hired for a job because she couldn't get one of her references to fill out that district's form in a timely fashion. Instead, they went with their second choice, who could get the required references in quickly.

    All I can say is find some references who will do this for you, and call the district promptly to find out if they have received you references yet. (I always send an email to the person who is applying, letting them know that I received a request and answered it promptly.)

    Good luck!

    I wish I had some better advice.
     
  6. RainStorm

    RainStorm Aficionado

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    Mar 26, 2009

    Alice,

    None of the districts in my area will accept a prewritten reference letter. They have to send their specific form (which has rating scale and some very specific questions) directly to the reference and have them send it directly back (although it is often done via email.)

    These are large districts. In this area, it is the norm. They won't accept preprinted ones for two reasons -- with modern technology it is too easy to fake a letter, and second, many people get a letter as a part of a separation agreement (they say they will give you a reference.) The districts want to know what you say now about the potential employee.

    I'll see if I can find one to give you an example.
     
  7. RainStorm

    RainStorm Aficionado

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    Mar 26, 2009

    Here is one. Names have been changed to protect the innocent,...of course!

    Here's the typical email:

    Dear Rain Storm,

    Mary Smith (name changed, of course) is applying for employment with XYZ City Public Schools. You are listed as a reference on Mary's application.

    Mary Smith understands that he or she waives any right that he or she may have to compel XYZCPS and the Department of Human Resources to disclose the contents of the evaluations given by you as a reference.

    Our screening process requires reference checks from former employers and/or supervisors. Therefore your participation in this process is very important to Mary Smith's pursuit of employment with XYZ City Public Schools.

    ------

    It leads you to a link. The link is in survey form and asks specifically how many hours you directly observed Mary Smith teaching, how you would rate it on a scale from 1 to 10, how many children she was (on average) teaching, whether it was an inclusion setting. It asks if you have specifically reviewed her lesson plans, and if so, was your primary role to give feedback on these lessons. It asks how many lessons plans you reviewed and to rate them on a scale of 1 to 10. It asks you for a specific rating for a number of attributes, from being prompt to work, building parent/teacher relationships, making transitions, using technology, etc. etc. It also specifically asks about classroom management, and for specific examples.

    ------

    They make it very clear they cannot make any job offer until they have these very specific forms from your last two supervisors. If you can't produce them, they will go to the next people on their lists for hiring. If the names you give didn't observe you directly teaching for at least a certain number of hours, didn't review lesson plans, and observe your classroom managment for at least so many hours, and of course, give you a good score, they will not make you a job offer because they deem that you either do not have enough experience, or you just don't rank highly enough and they have so many people just waiting to get into the hiring pool. (That is a highly desireable district, and you have to do all this just to get into the interview pool!)
     
  8. MsBee

    MsBee Devotee

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    Mar 26, 2009

    This sucks. I have applied to many places in VA too and she sent out the stupid letter!!!!!!! I want to cry. Now I can't really get anyone else to do them because I have already put her name in my applications I sent out as the person who would supply the reference.

    I will never get a job!! I'm so so sad and angry.
    McKennaL there are specific forms that some districts require that you must print out to give to your references. I am at a lost. I don't even know what to do.
     
  9. McKennaL

    McKennaL Groupie

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    Mar 26, 2009

    I'm so sorry. :(

    Could the woman just be having a bad day? Is there ANY talking to her? Let her cool off and then write a letter. Does she KNOW about the fact these are a must?

    .....

    Way back-in the 80s-when I was student teaching, the big thing was to have people write reference letters that you signed the university form that you will never read.

    One of my cooperating teachers and I got along famously... the OTHER was a B**ch! I SWEAR she must have written something nasty...because I was avoided by so many districts.

    I read later...that..no matter WHAT don't sign a form like that. ALWAYS know what is your file!!! But back then, as I say, we were pretty well forced to sign them by our university. Grrrrrrr

    ****

    And now to think a state makes you do that as well...

    that upsets me.
     
  10. Kangaroo22

    Kangaroo22 Virtuoso

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    Mar 26, 2009

    I'm sorry that this is happening to you, MsBee. Last year when I was applying to large county school districts a lot of them would make you get the specific form done and most were by e-mail. I felt so bad for my references, but they did them. Get another reference, you may need to contact the districts and see if you can get another form mailed/e-mailed out to another person so you can have the necessary number of reference forms done.
     
  11. elizak83

    elizak83 Companion

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    Mar 26, 2009

    I thought it was weird when I moved to MD/VA too...
    You HAVE to have the district's reference form.
    I know how you feel..if you're applying to a bunch of places it's a pain.
     
  12. mego65

    mego65 Comrade

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    Mar 26, 2009

    I have one district that is requiring this. I just thought I would E-Mail it to the three people, that way I would not have to drive around and deliver them, since they don't live in my town. But, then I looked and I have to sign it as well. So, I have to print the three forms, sign them, deliver them, and pray that they get filled out. Luckily, I only have one school district requiring this.

    I would call the schools HR and explain the problem. Ask them if you could remove her as a reference and have another person provide one in the correct format. Generally HR people are human and will work with them as long as you are nice and are trying.
     
  13. palla

    palla Companion

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    Mar 26, 2009

    Oh MsBee, that is terrible! I hate that you have to depend on someone else to get a job. And it is even worse when someone agrees to do something and then doesn't. That is terrible!

    I am really sorry that you are dealing with all of this. It just isn't fair, but you will make it through. Just eat all the Ben and Jerry's you can tonight and then find someone to be your reference and call the HR dept to let them know your reference has trouble following directions.
     
  14. Canadian Gal

    Canadian Gal Habitué

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    Mar 26, 2009

    In my experience larger divisions (mainly city divisions here) have their own reference forms and will not accept pre-written reference letters. They want the best people and they want people to be honest about the people they wish to hire. They find that (and this is a direct quote) that "people are more honest when the person they are talking about doesn't see the reference".
     
  15. MsBee

    MsBee Devotee

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    Mar 27, 2009

    Thanks everyone!! I feel better but I still feel pretty bad. I am going to wait a week for the letters to be mailed and get processed and then call the HR to see if they will PLEASE accept them. Or see what else I can do.
    I'm scared. I'm glad I started this process early so I have time to go back and hopefully fix this. I don't want this to stop me from getting a job.
     
  16. chebrutta

    chebrutta Enthusiast

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    Mar 27, 2009

    MsBee, I know exactly how you feel! I am SO tired of going to back to my old job each year because a letter won't cut it! And I *know* they're getting tired of doing references for someone who hasn't worked there in three years!

    There worst part is - each district's form is essentially THE SAME!
     
  17. TechTeach09

    TechTeach09 Rookie

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    Mar 27, 2009

    Maybe I am the only one who knows this or I may be misinformed, but according to HR laws, previous employers are now only allowed to disclose start day, end date, last wages, and rehirable or not... In my past jobs before teaching each company had a policy that they do not disclose information and prior supervisors are not allowed to fill out forms as these much less talk to anyone and all inquiries are to be directed to HR..

    So are school districts the exception or has noone caught on?
     
  18. mego65

    mego65 Comrade

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    I know that on the application you have to sign a waiver giving them permission to contact people. Once that is signed they can contact any name that is on the application, not just your references. Therefore, I do not put down anyone at all that I wonder about. I had a student teaching assignment from hell, I always give my supervisor and if it specifically asks for the cooperating teacher I give it with the school number (but, the school is now closed) that way she can't tell lies.
     
  19. MsBee

    MsBee Devotee

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    Mar 27, 2009

    I'm feeling a little better today. Like I said I am going to wait a week and call HR. If they need something else from me then I will just go that route. I won't even deal with this reference again.
    I never liked her in the first place... :)
     
  20. TampaTeacher2Be

    TampaTeacher2Be Comrade

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    Mar 27, 2009

    there is no "HR law" that states this. Though, some companies have enacted this policy.
     
  21. MsBee

    MsBee Devotee

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    My thing is I hate that when I call HR they may say oh we actually need a form...then I have to go find someone else who is probably so busy at this time of the year(thats why I gave them out early) and ask them to do them for me.

    I hate asking and I feel like a pain in the butt.
    Whats the real point of these letters? They are going to HR right? Well why does HR need these. It's not like the P is going to see them...or do they?
    I am so new to this process that I don't really know.

    I just wish every district had ONE form or required ONE letter!!!!
    Not to mention I am applying to over 15 districts. So that's why I am so upset...because I have to do this AGIAN. I know in the past people are not used to filling out this many but come on look at the economy. Plus she should have never agreed to it when I gave them to her.
     
  22. emmakate218

    emmakate218 Connoisseur

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    Mar 27, 2009

    I don't think anyone looks at the reference forms unless they are considering you as a candidate, it comes down between you and someone else, and the principal needs a deciding factor.
     
  23. MsBee

    MsBee Devotee

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    Mar 27, 2009

    Well then whats the point!!!! lol

    My main concern now is getting these references done and hoping that my work history will not be an issue. I only have three jobs on my resume that pertain to education and children. I left everything else out. So I have major gaps but I was in school the whole time during those gaps. I hope they don't care since I will be a first year teacher.
    Oh well let me stop worrying.
     
  24. MsBee

    MsBee Devotee

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    Mar 27, 2009

    Also now I'm afraid to ask another professor because I am sure word got around that I sent out so many for the first one to complete. Great...now I may just get a "no" from the rest of them before I even ask.

    And one more thing...one of the girls in my program got an interview today!! How? We are still ST and she has one. Why do things always come easy for some people?

    I'm sorry guys I am just really upset.
     
  25. chebrutta

    chebrutta Enthusiast

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    Mar 27, 2009

    :hugs:

    I know exactly how you feel.
     
  26. CanukTeacher

    CanukTeacher Comrade

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    Mar 27, 2009

    Okay this may sound weird or wrong or whatever but I say bribe them. If you have to get these forms filled out find a school you can volunteer at and say the rule is the forms need to be filled out in exchange for your time. If you need a prof to fill them out THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE PAID FOR!!! My school would FREAK if I refused to fill out reference letters for students because "I didn't have time." Go to their office hours and talk to them. Ask them to fill it out.
     
  27. MsBee

    MsBee Devotee

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    Mar 28, 2009

    CanukTeacher I would like to do that(volunteer at a school) but I am doing ST and will have no time. Plus I wouldn't be 100% sure that they would give me a good reference.

    I completely agree that my professors should give me a reference because it is their job. My professor and I..well I never really liked her although she doesn't know this. She is VERY intimidating so even me going to talk to her about this is scary.
    I don't know. I may have some plan b and c choices but then again its 50/50 on what they would put. I have no idea. At least with this professor I knew she would give me a good one. This sucks.
    Any other ideas..ANYONE!!!!!! PLEASE!!! :)
     
  28. adventuresofJ

    adventuresofJ Comrade

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    Mar 28, 2009

    If it makes you feel better my HT gave me my rec. letter hand written and asked me to type it and sign her name.
     
  29. MsBee

    MsBee Devotee

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    lol!!! Okay that made me laugh!!!!
     

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