I have a student who is not ready for Kindergarten

Discussion in 'Kindergarten' started by zoey'smom, Sep 5, 2009.

  1. zoey'smom

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    Sep 5, 2009

    We have been in school for two weeks now and it is very clear that one of my students is not ready for Kindergarten. Now we must convince mom or come to a compromise.

    This student is a little boy who just turned 5 in June, but he looks like a three year old. He looks very young for his age. He is about as tall as my 3 year old. He is very immature. He is cute as a button and he knows it. He likes to show off. The older kids in the school like to play with him and try to pick him up because he is so small. He has been in an Early Childhood special ed preschool and has moved at least three times that I know of since 2007. Mom decided he was ready for regular Kindergarten.

    This is what happened over the last two weeks.

    He crawls all over the carpet. He will not sit in his spot on the carpet or at the table. When we walk in the hall he is out of line and yells all the way. He is constantly touching things he shouldn't in the classroom. He is very impulsive. One day I lost him on the way to music, he decided he had to use the bathroom. 15 minutes later I got him to music. He crawls under tables. He spit his milk on the floor at snack. Refuses to his work, mainly because he can't do it. He blurts out in the middle of class, about his hairy back. Then he will show us his back. When he does use the bathroom it takes him forever because he plays in there. He also takes his shoes and pants off when he uses the bathroom. He was kicked out of PE three times. He also hits, kicks and spits on the other kids. Yesterday he climbed up on the table and started crawling down it at lunch. I can't turn my head for one second or something will happen. He is constantly singing. When I ask him to stop he looks at me and crosses his eyes. He can't write his name and can only count to 3. He only knows the colors green and yellow. He scribbles all over his paper. I can go on and on. He reminds me of a preschooler or younger. By the end of the day I am worn out. He takes so much of my energy and time. To make things worse the rest of the class needs so much help. There are at least 4 that have no idea how to write their name. I have a very low class.
    So when I am trying to help someone else he is out of his seat or under the table.

    Mother insists he is ready. He does so good at home, so she claims. She is not very happy with me. The other day she suggested that I start a behavior program for him so he could work for a prize. This is what they did at his last school.

    We are having a meeting with mom this coming Wednesday. I am a little nervous. My Principal told me to be prepared to tell how he is in class. I have been writing down daily what he has been doing and what he can't do. I don't think he belongs in my class, but I don't know what they will do. He is too old for our Preschool class. The Principal said they might even suggest half days.

    Does anyone have any advice? Has anyone had a student like this?
     
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  3. Blue

    Blue Aficionado

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    Sep 5, 2009

    How can he be too old for your preschool class? It sounds like that is where he needs to be.
     
  4. TeacherC

    TeacherC Connoisseur

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    Sep 5, 2009

    I had a very similar situation last year. He didn't come in to the school until after the year had started though, and he ended up moving (and leaving) before the year ended. He exhibited many of the same behaviors- I had him sit on a chair during our carpet time because he couldn't sit in one place on the carpet. He fell asleep almost everyday after lunch at his seat while we would read our story. I told mom very early on that he was definitely going to be retained, due to the fact that he still couldn't write his name or tell many more than 5 of his letters. To make matters worse, his older sister had been retained the year before and was still in K. Even though she was in another class, he always wanted to be with her and would only play with her and her girl friends on the playground, so the boys started to make fun of him. His long hair and ponytail didn't help, and the fact that mom tied it up with a purple elastic was the icing on the cake. I tried a behavior chart with him, but he was to immature to realize what it was for; he didn't understand the concept of anything other than immediate praise for what he was doing right- he couldn't wait until the end of the day for a prize.
    I think that if you have documented well, mom will not be able to dispute what he is doing in class. Not knowing his numbers and colors, he can be taught, but not when he is hiding under tables and such. Maybe a half-day really would be best for him if he can't be put in a pre-school setting- it sounds like he needs more playtime and something a little less structured. Good luck at the meeting, let us know how it goes!
     
  5. futureteach21

    futureteach21 Habitué

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    It sure doesn't sound like he is ready to be in Kinder, but at age five, his behavior is kind of bizarre. What kind of consequences do you use when he misbehaves? Can you get an aide/para just to help keep him on track?
     
  6. WaProvider

    WaProvider Fanatic

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    Sep 5, 2009

    He could be too old for a district preschool (because of funding), however, he could still be included in a private preschool.

    What are you going to encourage the Mother to do?
     
  7. zoey'smom

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    He can not go to our Preschool. It is an at risk Preschool. If they are Kindergarten age by September 1st they can not go. They can go to other Preschools, like a church Preschool, but mom would have to pay. In Illinois, If you are kindergarten age you can not go to the school's preschool. He can however, go to an Early Childhood Special Education classroom. So this could be a possibility. I agree Preschool is where he needs to be. We will see what happens. Mom has already canceled the meeting once.
     
  8. TeacherC

    TeacherC Connoisseur

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    OOOOhhh, maybe, just maybe, she knows there is a problem and doesn't want to hear the truth.... :whistle:
     
  9. TeacherGrl7

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    Sep 5, 2009

    Can you have someone else in the building come and observe for a little while? Then that person can go to the meeting and state what he or she saw, in addition to your documentations.
     
  10. zoey'smom

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    The Principal has sat in on class and has seen this behavior too. Our Reading Specialist has also seen him in action and helped me do assessments on him. I have asked her to be there too. So between the three of us I think we can give a clear picture to mom of how he is at school. I am just worried how it is going to go.
     
  11. ecsmom

    ecsmom Habitué

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    In our area, if a child is old enough to attend then they can't be denied. Parents can choose to wait until their child is 6. However, I'm not even sure that one could stop attending K once they started without some sort of permission from the state.
     
  12. zoey'smom

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    I have a stoplight behavior system. He doesn't care if he is on red. I have tried putting him next to me on a chair during carpet time. This worked for awhile then he started falling out of the chair. I mainly try to redirect him and sit him away from the other children so he won't touch them. I have sent him to the office, but now he likes going and asks to go and cheers when I bring him there. Friday the Principal made mom come and get him after lunch.
    I was told there is no money for an aide, but I think that would help a little.
     
  13. TeacherC

    TeacherC Connoisseur

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    I'm just wondering...what are you going to propose to the mom? The half-day idea? I think she should bring you a copy of the behavior plan that they used last year- and maybe you could talk to last-year's teacher to see how it worked...
     
  14. zoey'smom

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    Since he already has an IEP and was in a special Education Program, mom can't just decide regular kindergarten is where he needs to be. We have to have a meeting. I think some of our options are:

    - Half day of Kindergarten this year and then he would go to Kindergarten again next year.

    - Get some help from our special education teacher. ( She is in another building in another town) We have no special Ed in our building. So he will need to be bussed there.

    - Go to a special ed preschool.

    - They already told me there is no money for an aide.

    - He stays in my room and we set up a behavior plan.

    - There may be more.

    I am not sure which way the Principal is leaning towards. He won't tell me, he just says we will have the meeting and see what happens.
     
  15. ecsmom

    ecsmom Habitué

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    Sep 5, 2009

    Believe me, I sympathize with your situation. I had 4 with challenging behavior last year. The most severe was put on a modified day last year but it was in the second semester. He left at 10:00. He was very bright but had a lot of behavior issues. He went on to 1st grade. He is on a new medication as doing much better. Good luck with yours.

    BTW, you are fortunate to have sped for PreK and K. We receive no sped support except for speech until a child has entered 1st grade. Then it is only if the child has been retained or has medical issues.
     
  16. futureteach21

    futureteach21 Habitué

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    I hope his mom gets a grip and realizes what a big problem this is and how detrimental it could be for her child. Good luck! You have to let us know what happens.
     
  17. starbucks

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    Sep 5, 2009

    Yes, that is how it is where I am. Parents don't have to send their child to K at age 5, but once they enroll them in K they are committed and can't just pull them out. Even getting them back in a PreK program is very tricky. I have only been able to get 1 child moved back to PreK and my principal told me that what we did was illegal, but we did it anyways because it was in this child's best interest.

    You said that this child was in a special ed PreK last year. Does he already have an IEP? What does the IEP say? If he is already identified as special ed his mother has alot of rights (as we all know). If she demands that he gets an aide your school would probably have to get one (whether they could pay or not). Also, alot of kids in my school have aides that the district doesn't pay for. They qualify through other programs. Basically after they get evaluated by a psychologist the doctor can recommend that the child needs an aide and it is paid for by other government programs. In fact we have too many kids in our school with aides. Some parents manage to get their child an aide when they don't really need one! We hate it becasue they are not our employees and many of the aides are very unprofessional and are more of a problem than the child. Every Fall we spend the first few weeks of school proving to parents that their child doesn't need the aide that they managed to get over the summer. Sorry to go off a little there, but my point is that maybe you can get this little guy an aide without the district paying the cost.

    Good Luck to you! I know how one student can totally disrupt the learning of others. It is very frustrating. I hope things work out for you.
     
  18. azteacher3

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    Sep 6, 2009

    I had a little girl similar to this a few years ago. It was like having a toddler in my room. I had to watch her every move. She'd get into my desk, color in books, write on the walls, etc. I had to hold her hand when we went somewhere because she would run away. She stayed with me the whole day because she would get lost on the playground.
    My goal that year was to get her ready for kinder the next year. At our first conference, her mom agreed to retain her. I think it was finally in Nov/Dec that I had help with her during our literacy block. I had to put up quite a fuss to get this but I couldn't effectively teach while dealing with her. Thankfully I had a small, great group of students (18) and they became very good at ignoring her behavior. She would scream and throw tantrum several times a day. Then in Feb. she qualified for special ed pull-out for 2 hours a day. So I had an aide for an hour in the morning and she was in another class for 2 hours in the afternoon. That was manageable.
    I retained her and it became quite clear to everyone else (I'd known it for awhile) that she had some other issues going on. She was still very behind my new kinders. She was finally placed in our schools self contained class 2 months into that school year. It's where she should have been all along but with all the red tape...it's very frustrating!
    She is now in 2nd grade and still comes up to me and gives me hugs when she sees me. She'll always be my special little girl :) And this year I have her little brother. He just turned 5 a week before school started and should still be in preschool. He's a sweet little boy, but he's still so young. I wish parents wouldn't push their kids to go to school if they aren't ready. I know he will be with me next year, too. He's just not ready, but what can you do?
    Well, that was a lot of rambling and not much advice:blush:. Just wanted you to know that you aren't alone. Make a fuss. See if you can get someone to come in a help you with him at key parts of the day when you need it. Ask your administrators to come observe him. Get the testing, meetings, etc. done as quickly as you can so that he can qualify/get services.
    :hugs:
     
  19. zoey'smom

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    He does have an IEP and is considered special ed, as far as I know. I did not get to see the copy of the IEP yet. Our Special Teacher has it. We did not get a copy of it until school started. If Mom does insist he is in my class I don't think there is anything we can do. I had a little girl years ago that had down syndrome (she was such a sweetheart) Mom insisted and they had to get her an aid. I am just hoping that this mom sees that he is not ready for Kindergarten. If he ends up staying, I think my goal will be to have him ready to take kindergarten again, like azteacher3 said she did. I can hope they get an aide especially if they don't have to pay. As far as starting Kindergarten and not going back to Preschool, I am not sure what the law in Illinois is about that, but I am hoping with the IEP that would help. I just want what is best for him and the whole class. He is just so far behind the other children. Thank you everyone for your advice and your similar stories. It does help to know others have had similar experiences. My Principal is pretty good when it comes to these situations. So I am hoping there will be some change. I will let you all know what happens after the meeting on Wednesday. Thanks for letting me vent. My husband was getting tired of hearing about it.
     
  20. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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    If he has an IEP, how come he was placed in your regular class? That placement should have been discussed at an IEP meeting. I would suggest that you have him removed on a regular basis on the fact that he is being completely disruptive. You will be able to document that and maybe your administration will get on the ball and do what they need to do if they have to amuse this child in the office for a while. You are obviously doing the best you can and your other students are being denied their free and appropriate public education.
     
  21. zoey'smom

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    EXactly!!! This family just moved here this summer. They have moved several times. In the past if there was a child with an IEP we would have a meeting the year before they came to kindergarten or sometime before school started. Mom enrolled him without telling anyone about the IEP, thinking it would be fine. We did not get the copy of the IEP until after school already started. So the meeting on Wednesday will be an IEP meeting to discuss what is best for the child. I'll be there, the Principal, the social worker, mom, our district special ed teacher and I think the school's psychologist. I also ask our Title-one teacher/Reading specialist. She helped me do all my beginning assessments and has come in the room to help in the afternoon. Like I said before I want to be prepared.
     
  22. woobie5

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    OMG! I had the SAME little boy I swear (well not really .... but they must be twins) EXACT same behaviors only he wouldn't turn 5 until end of Sept. We had a SAT meeting and didn't really come to any conclusions other than continue to do what we were doing (i.e. send to principal if he wouldn't make correct choices and follow behavior plan in classroom and immediatly if he was harming another kid) .... which I think wasn't really working.

    THE VERY NEXT DAY the mom came in and made the decision ON HER OWN to pull him from K and wait another year. She was going to try to find a preschool ... but like your situation ... he is too old for most.

    Our school psych thinks we should at least bring him back to K for 2 hours a day to help give him some structure ... but I'm not sure if that's the answer. I REALLY think that time to grow up might help.

    It's tough sweetie! I will pray that something changes for you b/c a kid like that takes 90% of your time and is SOOOO exhausting! I know ... I've been there! My room is a WHOLE different room without him there (I hate saying that ... but I will see him next year LOL)

    Hopefully the mom will see the light for your sake ... and the kids sake. It just makes sense to pull them especially when thye are going to have to repeat K anyway.
     
  23. zoey'smom

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    You are not going to believe this. I just found out Mom canceled the meeting again. This is the second time she canceled the meeting. We have had a better day today. He has been pretty good, but we will see how the afternoon goes. I am just so frustrated.
     
  24. zoey'smom

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    Well, now the meeting is back on. :) We will meet tomorrow after school. I also have another meeting for another student who also has an IEP tomorrow, but he has been doing really well, so I don't look for any problems there. I am still nervous about the other meeting. I'll let you know what happens.
     
  25. futureteach21

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    I was about to get really fired up that she cancelled but I'm glad it's back on! Let us know!
     
  26. TeacherC

    TeacherC Connoisseur

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    me too!
     
  27. spunkyteacher

    spunkyteacher Rookie

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    I am in your exact situation. Mom told me today that they know he will be retained and that is fine with them because they want to keep him back for sports.

    It is VERY exhausting. We came up with a plan today that will start tomorrow. He has one warning then next offensive he will go to ISS for 15 minutes. He has been to ISS twice and he didn't listen there either. I have a feeling he will be in ISS for a lot of his first year in Kindergarten. He has only played at recess twice all year (we have been in school a little over a month) and that was not working. He was fine sitting and watching his friends play.

    I hope you guys figure something out. It is frustrating when you don't have any answers.
     
  28. MissCeliaB

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    I never understand this idea of keeping very young children back "for sports." How do they know that the child will have any aptitude for sports, or any desire to play them? I've seen this backfire many a time.
     
  29. zoey'smom

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    The meeting is over. It went better than I thought it would. Mom's concern was she had a son at home that would be in Kindergarten next year and didn't want them together. (I am the only Kindergarten teacher in my building.) Mom was really nice about it. The decision was to leave him in Kindergarten in my room in the morning. Then he would go to an Early childhood program in another town. So I will only have him for a half a day. This option leaves it open that he could go on to First grade next year if need be. He has a long way to go. I am not sure how I feel about it yet. I think it is better than what we are doing now.
     
  30. ecsmom

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    Glad the meeting went well. Also glad that you will get a break in the afternoon and he will receive the services he needs.
     
  31. TeacherC

    TeacherC Connoisseur

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    Sep 10, 2009

    I'm glad it worked out that way! Let us know how your mornings are going!
     
  32. Dzenna

    Dzenna Groupie

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    Sep 10, 2009

    There is a boy in my son's class who has been held back "for sports". He will be 20 when he graduates high school!!!!!
     

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