Discussion in 'Substitute Teachers' started by Mr Magoo, Jan 18, 2017.
Jan 18, 2017
You should consider substitute teaching in different school environments or grade levels, if you can. I do notice that you complain rather frequently about student misbehavior. Why not try changing it up, alittle? Or, maybe accept less of the opportunities that will cause stress to yourself. Also, schools will may add you to their blocked list if they can determine you cannot control the class. Sending them to the office every time misbehavior happens is unacceptable- even for a substitute teacher.
Jan 19, 2017
I wonder if part of the problem was that you let it go too far. Talking about sexually explicit behavior is a form of harassment. I would cut that off right away and if they persisted, kick them out. No one needs to be hearing that, but by warning them "several times," you may have implied that it was permissible.
Maybe it was you Don't be so quick to blame the teacher, and say there if there is bad behavior, it's because they allow it. Maybe it's because they see a sub, and act up and you allowed it.
And yes, you do complain a lot about every day issues, frankly I'm surprised that you're so surprised about student behavior. But maybe stop complaining, and do something about it.
Jan 20, 2017
Uhh your posts always make me nervous to leave my class with a substitute. I was a substitute, it's a tough job. Maybe take a step back.
Jan 21, 2017
Cut out the warnings. They should not be getting multiple chances. Follow the school's discipline procedures so that you have a reasonable plan in place to follow.
Jan 22, 2017
Good to see another method has worked for you! You can also request some discipline strategies from the teacher you're subbing for, or a neighboring teacher at the school. It sounds as if you've been subbing for a while, so I'm sure many of the teachers you know would be able to share of their strategies with you. Your above method, separating/relocating students is an effective one.
You keep giving your power away and that's why the kids don't respect you. The office, the principal, the school police officer, all the places you refer them to or ask help from, you keep giving your power to them. You show the kids that you can't handle them, and they know you need help.
You need to have a firm and consistent system in place that you stick to. Lay down your expectations in the beginning of the class. Do not write them on the board, that's pointless. Not too many warnings. If you have problems with 8 kids, send ONE out and write them up and usually that sends the message that you mean business and the rest will shape up.
Other than that I don't know what to say. Your posts still sound like you're a 14 year old kid, or probably a troll just having fun with your absurd scenarios. No sub I have ever met have been this clueless, and trust me, I've met some weird ones.
Jan 23, 2017
Agreed that writing on the board is pretty pointless. But I do have to say that I could see how it's hard for subs to have a firm and consistent system in place, especially since it's hard to build consistency when you only see them for one day. I always inform my subs that I don't expect them to take on discipline other than admin support calls or referrals. Instead I want them to leave me detailed notes about what happened in the classroom along with specific names, and I will enforce consequences on students.
I am curious because I kow how thoughtful you are, why would you not want them to continue with you classroom management plan, at least the initial consequences? Especially in January when one would expect the students to know the system, expectations, and consequences?
That's true. But a daily sub can still have his own system in place. I'm sure you have seen subs who usually do a good job, and others who are struggling, or have good days / bad days. Kids learn what they can get away with quickly, and that goes for subs as well. Subs will have a reputation.
I mostly wouldn't expect a sub to do it because they themselves would have to learn the very particular way in which I conduct my classroom management, and that's probably too much effort for most subs to put in for just one day of teaching in my classroom, and so I expect most subs wouldn't even bother to do it even if I asked them to. Because I can't be sure that a sub would do it or do it in the right way, I'd rather just not ask them to do it period. But this is for a secondary classroom where they would only see the kid for an hour or so. There's usually a limit to how much a kid can get up to in that amount of time anyway. In an elementary classroom I could see why a teacher would want the sub to follow their management plan because they would see the kid for longer.
You have me curious as to how complex your system is, that it would not be fairly easy to understand, even for a sub.
Well it's not complex in terms of steps. It's more complex in the nuances. Like when giving consequences, give them impassively without yelling, scolding, or threatening. Be matter-of-fact. If a student argues, do not engage, walk away and let them take accountability for enacting the consequence on their own. If they fail to do that, enact the next consequence. Depending on the behavior, you might just straight to time-out, or have them stay after class, or at lunch, or call home, but not all three. It depends on what is logical at the time.
My general CM plan is warning-independent study-stay after class (from there any of the previous mentioned possibilities). But again, there are a lot of little things that if done incorrectly could throw a wrench into the classroom environment I've built. It's just easier to tell the sub to document everything and tell students that they're expected to follow the same behavioral expectations while I'm away, and I will enact the same (or worse, usually worse) consequences when I return for any behavior that I missed.
I don't know, but I think a sub could follow this with success.
If a student is doing something that may cause a sub to yell, scold, or threaten if they follow your plan, what would you expect them to do without it? They just let the behavior go and write it down?
I just think what you describe above would be very simple for a sub to follow(except for consequences such as calling home), if a student starts to argue about the consequence(which they likely already know what to expect the consequence to be) then just write it down for the teacher.
A sub is not "likely" to let a student make and fly paper airplanes in class. So, wouldn't following the first few steps of your plan be more effective than just letting them "do it on their own", especially when students already know what your behavior plan is, what the likely consequences are, and that arguing does not work?
I am not sure why a sub would be more likely to yell or scold a student when using your plan than going it alone without the plan.
If you have your rules posted, a student doesn't follow the rule, the sub applies the consequence, the student argues or refuses..etc. the sub is told to let it go and inform the teacher in writing.
For example, using The "smarter classroom management" website for an example of consequences.
2. in class time-out
3. note home
If the student broke 2 rules, receives a warning, the an in class time-out. Student argues and tries to refuse. The teacher is told not to argue with the student, simply write it to me(the teacher in a note) or the student complies according to the plan.
Student breaks 3 rules, I would advise them to follow first 2 steps and leave a note to the teacher for the 3rd step. A sub would not have the student take the note home.
I am thinking out loud, if this comes across as arguing, it is more about my teaching than yours.
Jan 24, 2017
No I understand! Again I think it might work if you put all of that thought into your sub plans. For me, my sub plans are usually long enough as it is, and I honestly just don't feel like adding all of that in there. LOL. If they have small problems, they just write down names. If they have bigger problems they call admin.
So I definitely think its possible, but I'm just lazy.
For me I provide a seating chart and write that students must sit in their assigned seats. I tell the sub to hand out pencils but make sure he gets them back. I let them know exactly how to conduct the lesson. I leave the names of 2-3 students in each class whom they can ask for assistance or clarification (and they would be completely honest and helpful). I let them know about my no phone policy, to not touch anything on my desk, no one is leaving the room for bathroom / water, etc.
I assume the sub would know how to handle the class, to make sure no one is talking while he's talking, or what to do if someone refuses to not sit in his seat. So I provide the rules / guidance, but I'm not telling the sub what to do minute to minute.
I'm not expecting them to make calls home. Either leave me the names of bad students or handle them. I just expect the work to be done and the classroom the way I found it.
It's pretty simple.
Feb 22, 2017
Magoo, You perhaps need to pursue something other than teaching, even subbing seems to be too much for you to handle at times? Sending EIGHT kids to the office is ridiculous. In my 3 years of subbing I have had 2 office referrals, and both were for flat out physical violence. The problem comes is they will continue to disrespect you because they know you can't (or won't ) do anything about it.
Personally, I want the students to know I mean business. If you let the principal handle so much, you give up your power which is awful in the long run. It's also a good way to get blocked as you need to control the classroom.
Feb 24, 2017
Sounds like you do more writing than the students
Rather than writing referrals to the office, another alternative for when students don't want to listen to you is to tell them that if they don't follow your instructions you'll write a note to the teacher reporting their refusal to follow instructions. Just be sure that you know the student's name when you give this threat because the first thing they'll do is ask if you even know who they are. Nine times out of ten, they'll do what you want them to do after you say this to them if they realize you can repeat their name back to them. You'll have saved yourself the effort of writing referrals, and you'll get them to do what you want at the same time. This strategy worked wonders for me when I was subbing.
I feel like we get granular detail about every negative interaction you have with students--almost a transcript of events. It's... interesting.
Separate names with a comma.