I don't get why people think that teachers are worthless

Discussion in 'Teacher Time Out' started by MissJill, Aug 15, 2011.

  1. MissJill

    MissJill Cohort

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    Aug 15, 2011

    Someone on my Facebook last night made a post about being happy that our governor was cutting the fat and getting rid of useless state workers. Then people started commenting about how useless teachers and cops are.

    What is wrong with people?

    I deleted them from Facebook because I would probably have commented and been nasty.
     
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  3. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    I don't think most people feel this way. In tough economic times however, public employees are a focus. People see their high taxes and seem to think that we have it easy. Sure, there are ineffective teachers and too much bureaucracy in government and those kinds of wasteful expenses should be addressed...unfortunately, even the good professionals get dragged thru the mud in such arguments. It's not worth arguing with idiots...deleting was a good idea.
     
  4. MissJill

    MissJill Cohort

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    I hope that most people don't feel this way. I'm in NJ too and I feel like there are so many other people to go after before teachers.

    I'm struggling to pay my bills this summer, but yet I make too much money according to some people? That's crazy.
     
  5. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    It makes sense that ignorant people don't see a value in education.

    Ignore them.
     
  6. emily87

    emily87 New Member

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    Everyone is always after teachers, they don't understand our value. Let's see them do our job for a day! it's more work then they think!
     
  7. bros

    bros Phenom

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    My mom is a public worker. She works for the municipal court. She gets people who come in to pay tickets every day who tell her how she gets paid too much (She doesn't, she is the lowest paid full time worker in the county)
     
  8. Joy

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    I don't think the majority of people feel that way!
     
  9. lilmisses1014

    lilmisses1014 Comrade

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    At my nephew's birthday party, my sister-in-law made a very snotty comment about teachers and how she wished there was some way to warn parents about us. (Apparently, every teacher she knows was once a party animal/horribly-behaved/lazy individual who lacks common sense.) Yep.... I was standing right there. Her friends sitting around her found her comments amusing. I just walked away.

    In my experience, the majority of people do like and respect teachers. Unfortunately, I did marry into a family who actually believe I have the easiest job in the world and that I'm overpaid. Funny how nothing is ever said to or about my other BIL, also a public employee, who works 10 days a month (but gets overtime!!), spends most of his time sitting around doing nothing, and makes more than I do.
     
  10. MissJill

    MissJill Cohort

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    Exactly.
    My dad's friend runs 3 departments in our town and is also a retired state employee collecting a pension.

    My ex got paid DOUBLE what I got paid to work for an airline. He had no degree, he didn't work that hard (he slept most of the time or was on the phone with me throughout the night). I know this isn't a state job, but still, I'm sure he is not considered to be overpaid. $100,000 a year to sleep!!!! He got $5000 in over time for one pay period and kept throwing it in my face. (hence the word EX).

    Sorry, that was a little off topic.
     
  11. chicagoturtle

    chicagoturtle Fanatic

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    There definitely is an attack on public workers happening in my city. It unfortunately starts with the mayor's office. I think this year will be a tough one for us as we are not getting our raises- this is the last year of our contract and there are new people in charge everywhere you turn.....
     
  12. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    The thing is, none of us really knows the reality of someone else's job unless we're right there doing it. Whether it's a teacher, your BIL, your ex, or the guy who checks the meter, all we know of the job is what we're able to see and what they care to share-- their vision of what they want you to know.

    So don't sweat the poor opinions any more than you should bask in the praise.
     
  13. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    It's just people parroting what they hear the politicians say. Once we start electing better people from better parties who won't destroy the public education system, we will start seeing our profession being respected a little more. Until that time, don't give it another thought other than to make sure that you're voting for the right person.
     
  14. proud2educate

    proud2educate New Member

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    Teachers specifically are loathed in my area. Anytime an article about schools/teachers comes out on our local paper's website it's a free for all. The nasty things they say are hurtful. These are the parents of our students too.
     
  15. stephenpe

    stephenpe Connoisseur

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    I guess the problem is these people vote and believe the lies
    told by politicians trying to get elected or the hate mongers on
    talk radio making their buck stirring up the masses. I think for too long teachers have put their collective heads down and did their jobs expecting people to appreciate what they do. But if you tell people lies long enough they will believe anything it seems.
     
  16. waterfall

    waterfall Maven

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    I'm seeing the same thing around my home city. Luckily, where I live now things aren't quite as bad. We have a large latino population and I've found that their culture tends to respect education and teachers more. However, I have many friends and family members teaching in OH, where I grew up. It wasn't as publicized, but OH passed a bill similar to Wisconsin's that got rid of collective bargaining rights for teachers, took away their right to strike (I've heard this part is being amended, but it was originally that teachers who went on strike could be JAILED), got rid of tenure of any sort, established pay for performance based on test scores, and slashed education budgets. The bill also included public workers such as cops and firefighters under the collective bargaining thing. In our home city, there was overwhelming support for the cops and firefighters, even though there has been case after case reported just in the past year of corrupt city cops- racial profiling, taking bribes, wrongful shooting, etc. However, everywhere you turned people were bashing teachers. They wanted the cops/firemen to get out of the bill but not the teachers. Fox news was right there in their element going on and on about how we are "leeching the taxpayers money", doing a part time job ("they're done at 2:30!" umm, where?) babysitting kids. Unfortunately, I grew up in a very conservative part of OH where people actually believe Fox news. The teachers union even agreed to every concession that the government was asking for (which included massive cuts to salary and benefits) if they could just keep their collective bargaining rights. It was a no go- the bill passed as is. My dad has a close group of non-teacher friends outside of school. They all actively supported the bill, and when he pointed out that he often works 14 hour days, they kept telling him he was a rare exception. I tend to hear the same thing (although I admit, I do not work as many hours as he does, but its certainly more than 8). People think that since they went to school they know what a teacher does.

    OP, I literally almost lost a close friend of over 10 years over her facebook comments about teachers/the senate bill 5. She actually wrote a note entitled "stop whining" or something to that effect, and it was a few paragraphs slamming how much time we have off and how little work a teacher can get away with doing, and that if we were unhappy with teaching someone would be happy to take our place. She also mentioned that cops and firefighters deserved to protest but teachers did not, and then went on and on about how much harder and less paying private sector jobs are (thanks to lovely fox news charts showing that teachers make more than the median income- however that median income includes people who didn't graduate from HS or college and may be working for minimum wage). I did make comments refuting it, and in short her response was that she'd spent 17 years in school and that she'd have to be an absolute moron (I made no comments here) to not be observant about how school works and what a teacher's job is. She said obviously she realized we did grading and things outside of class, and that she'd never heard of something and thought "wow I didn't know teachers had to do that" so she obviously DOES know all about the job. I think that attitude is extremely common. In the end, I found it was more directed at another teacher friend who DOES whine about her job constantly, and I know this girl is upset that people with full time jobs are complaining while she has yet to find ANYTHING in her field 2 years after graduation. I ended up patching things up with her, but I'll admit I definitely still lost some respect for her.

    Personally, I don't need anyone to thank me for being a teacher. I don't need praise or approval. I just need people to leave us alone and be respectful of the field just as you would in any other professional field.
     
  17. waterfall

    waterfall Maven

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    ps- I just saw a comment on a news article where a teacher pointed out the long hours she works during the school year. Someone responded by saying that if teachers say they work long hours, it's their fault because they have poor time management and aren't able to plan ahead and get things done during planning periods. Several other posters agreed. Now I've seen it all.
     
  18. webmistress

    webmistress Devotee

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    WOW!!

    I always figured the general public would be on the side of cops, firefighters and other public workers except teachers. And not to rehash another debate from some other thread, but police corruption is huge especially against minorities. I have stories for days about that. Many stories never ever make the news, but I know personally about dirty cops. But again, they are not under the scrutiny teachers are and many really do abuse and misuse their power and lives end because of it.

    I agree with your last paragraph. Just leave me alone, examine the field as you would against any other field. I don't need anyone's thanks or approval but I won't accept the venom and demonization either.
     
  19. chebrutta

    chebrutta Enthusiast

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    I've had several older friends tell me the same thing - that I'm the exception to the rule. But they've never seen me teach - so honestly, they have no idea if I'm good or not. They've never seen me work on things at home or stay at school late. And they've never seen any of my coworkers teach or take work home or stay late either... but somehow, they're "bad" teachers and I'm a "good" teacher.
     
  20. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    Welcome to history. Pointing a finger at someone else - at anyone else, but especially at an identified Them - is a time-honored response to a difficult economy.

    Teachers are the identified Them: fairly convenient scapegoats right now, since it's less politically correct than it used to be to go after most minorities and since teachers tend to be neither wealthy enough to be interesting as campaign donors nor politically connected enough to be worth fearing. Pointing the finger at teachers also deflects unwelcome attention from elected officials' perks and salaries...
     
  21. Rebel1

    Rebel1 Connoisseur

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    These people have nothing better to do but to run their mouths.
    Usually when people start blaming others about stuff THEY usually are the ones who are guilty of what they are pointing out.
    Like they say, "It takes one to know one."
    Rebel1
     
  22. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    I find that we get painted with broad brush.
    Anytime a teacher is arrested the news includes an occupation "teacher" where many times no occupation is listed for John Q. Public.
    How many times do we see ironic charges on certain occupations
    and it is "news": a Cop stealing, a Fireman arsonist, a teacher molester, etc.
    In 2010, there were 3,823,142 teachers in public, charter, private, and Catholic elementary and secondary schools but how often do the less than 1% that get "in trouble" get the headlines?
    No matter what news source you use, whether it is Fox or MSNBC, they (the media) has to sell the "news" a teacher teaching is just not news where a teacher with a DUI or some other non job related allegation it gets put above the fold.

    An education major in college that parties it is a shame but a jock or Liberal Arts major it is just youthful exuberance.

    “We the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, with so little, for so long, we are now qualified to do anything, with nothing.” ... Lucky it is easy for us.



     
  23. wldywall

    wldywall Connoisseur

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    I will never get it, ever. I don't care so much about the pay, but this constant war over teachers in the press and with gov officials gets me so mad. No one seems to get how much money we have to put out of pocket, no just on supplies but also on continued education just to keep our certification!

    Also about cops, since my dh is one, who would really want to cut his job, and those he works with so that the county jail doesn't have enough people. Either they will be upset because their loved one got treated bad in jail or they are upset because it would be to easy to get away!!!

    How about all those people who work at the legislature level in government who just answer phones, read documents etc. so our elected representatives don't have to, or the manager for the manager for the manager at some government office?

    As for protecting the kids from us, really? I have heard that one before and it usually comes from the parents who let just about anything happen in front of their kids while they are home, but then point it out in others and claim righteous indignation!

    It makes me so mad, the gripers are just lucky there were teachers there to teach them to read and write so they can express their retarded opinions. (yes I meant to use the R word)
     
  24. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    The one line I just hate "Teachers know what they are getting into."

    And I'd like to know where the wage figures are coming from the ones that say teachers are in the norm for some reason I think the figures are being cooked. I'd like to see teachers compared to 4 year graduates in other professionals.
     
  25. wldywall

    wldywall Connoisseur

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    There are quotes on that somewhere, I have seen them. Basically we end up at the lower end of professionals with comparable education and certification requirements, and end VERY far below and in most states more educated that doctors! (while they have to do professional development to maintain their licences they do NOT have to continue to take college courses)

    A point which I am sure, most people do not take into consideration the fact that there are licences that must be kept up to date....
     
  26. waterfall

    waterfall Maven

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    They can say this because their quotes show the median family income in the country. However, that median income includes people who are not college graduates, and even people that are not HS graduates who may be working for minimum wage. Therefore, they can say that teachers make "more than the median income", but that's not taking into account the fact that teachers went to college for at least four years (not to mention classes for continuing certification). If you actually compare teacher's salaries to other four year college graduates, we're one of the lowest. Someone actually put an article on here a few weeks ago- I believe that elementary teachers were listed as the 2nd lowest paid college-degreed professionals in the country (If I'm remembering correctly, social work was #1).
     
  27. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    Here is the chart

    Best Undergrad College Degrees By Salary - Full List
    STARTING MEDIAN PAY MID-CAREER MEDIAN PAY
    1. Petroleum Engineering $97,900 $155,000
    2. Chemical Engineering $64,500 $109,000
    3. Electrical Engineering (EE) $61,300 $103,000
    4. Materials Science & Engineering $60,400 $103,000
    5. Aerospace Engineering $60,700 $102,000
    6. Computer Engineering (CE) $61,800 $101,000
    7. Physics $49,800 $101,000
    8. Applied Mathematics $52,600 $98,600
    9. Computer Science (CS) $56,600 $97,900
    10. Nuclear Engineering $65,100 $97,800
    11. Biomedical Engineering (BME) $53,800 $97,800
    12. Economics $47,300 $94,700
    13. Mechanical Engineering (ME) $58,400 $94,500
    14. Statistics $49,000 $93,800
    15. Industrial Engineering (IE) $57,400 $93,100
    16. Civil Engineering (CE) $53,100 $90,200
    17. Mathematics $47,000 $89,900
    18. Environmental Engineering $51,700 $88,600
    19. Management Information Systems (MIS) $51,000 $88,200
    20. Software Engineering $54,900 $87,800
    21. Finance $46,500 $87,300
    22. Government $41,400 $87,300
    23. Construction Management $50,200 $85,200
    24. Supply Chain Management $50,200 $84,700
    25. Biochemistry (BCH) $41,700 $84,700
    26. Industrial Design (ID) $44,400 $84,400
    27. Electrical Engineering Technology (EET) $55,100 $84,300
    28. Food Science $43,300 $83,700
    29. International Business $41,600 $83,700
    30. Civil Engineering Technology (CET) $46,600 $83,300
    31. Geology $45,300 $83,300
    32. Computer Information Systems (CIS) $47,900 $83,100
    33. Mechanical Engineering Technology (MET) $51,600 $81,200
    34. Molecular Biology $40,500 $81,200
    35. Chemistry $42,000 $80,900
    36. Film Production $41,600 $80,700
    37. Political Science (PolySci) $39,900 $80,100
    38. Biotechnology $40,800 $79,900
    39. International Relations $40,500 $79,400
    40. Occupational Health and Safety $46,400 $79,000
    41. American Studies $43,400 $78,600
    42. Information Technology (IT) $48,300 $78,500
    43. Industrial Technology (IT) $48,100 $78,400
    44. Information Systems (IS) $48,300 $78,100
    45. Telecommunications $37,300 $78,100
    46. Urban Planning $41,500 $78,000
    47. Accounting $44,700 $75,700
    48. Philosophy $39,800 $75,600
    49. Zoology $38,000 $75,200
    50. Advertising $37,700 $74,700
    51. Architecture $41,500 $74,400
    52. Marketing & Communications $38,200 $73,500
    53. Literature $39,100 $73,200
    54. Fashion Design $36,300 $72,400
    55. Global & International Studies $37,800 $72,000
    56. Biology $37,900 $71,900
    57. Environmental Science $40,200 $71,200
    58. Linguistics $39,800 $70,700
    59. Business $41,000 $70,500
    60. Microbiology $38,500 $70,100
    61. Nursing $52,700 $69,300
    62. History $37,800 $69,000
    63. Public Administration $40,400 $68,900
    64. Hotel Management $36,100 $68,700
    65. Forestry $41,500 $67,200
    66. Communications $38,000 $66,900
    67. Landscape Architecture $41,900 $66,700
    68. Geography $39,600 $66,700
    69. Journalism $36,100 $66,400
    70. Health Sciences $35,800 $66,200
    71. English $37,100 $65,800
    72. Public Relations (PR) $35,500 $65,700
    73. French $38,400 $65,500
    74. Sports Management $35,400 $65,100
    75. Liberal Arts $37,800 $63,200
    76. Anthropology $35,600 $63,200
    77. Human Resources (HR) $37,900 $62,600
    78. Organizational Management (OM) $42,300 $61,900
    79. Agriculture $38,600 $61,500
    80. Psychology $35,000 $61,300
    81. Medical Technology $45,100 $60,900
    82. Health Care Administration $36,700 $60,900
    83. Sociology $36,100 $60,500
    84. Radio & Television $35,000 $60,000
    85. Hospitality & Tourism $35,900 $59,500
    86. Visual Communication $35,600 $59,000
    87. Criminal Justice $35,300 $58,900
    88. Fine Arts $35,900 $58,600
    89. Spanish $36,400 $58,400
    90. Interior Design $34,300 $58,200
    91. Humanities $34,900 $57,800
    92. Horticulture $39,600 $57,300
    93. Theater $34,700 $57,300
    94. Music $36,800 $57,200
    95. Graphic Design $35,600 $56,500
    96. Fashion Merchandising $36,800 $56,300
    97. Dietetics $41,500 $56,100
    98. Education $36,800 $54,700
      [*]
      Kinesiology $34,200 $54,600
    99. Photography $32,900 $54,500
    100. Nutrition $38,600 $54,400
    101. Interdisciplinary Studies (IS) $36,300 $54,400
    102. Exercise Science $33,100 $54,400
    103. Social Science $36,600 $54,300
    104. Drama $37,800 $54,200
    105. Multimedia and Web Design $40,400 $53,900
    106. Animal Science $33,800 $53,700
    107. Paralegal/Law $35,300 $53,500
    108. Art History $38,300 $53,300
    109. Art $35,300 $52,400
    110. Theology $35,600 $52,000
    111. Public Health (PH) $35,500 $51,700
    112. Athletic Training $34,600 $50,200
    113. Religious Studies $32,900 $49,700
    114. Recreation & Leisure Studies $34,500 $49,100
    115. Special Education $34,300 $47,800
    116. Culinary Arts $29,900 $46,800
    117. Social Work (SW) $32,200 $44,300
    118. Elementary Education $32,400 $44,000
    119. Child and Family Studies $29,600 $40,500
     
  28. eddygirl

    eddygirl Companion

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    Well, I guess the lawyers out there are breathing a sigh of relief--remember all the lawyer bashing of years gone by? Everyone had a complaint or smart-aleck joke about them, until, of course, they needed a lawyer. The only difference between teachers and lawyers nowadays is that we don't get $300 an hour for our services!
     
  29. bros

    bros Phenom

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    In NJ, as far as I know, teachers cannot strike.

    Same with any public worker such as court employees or police.
     
  30. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    It's called the Taylor Law, at least in NY, and it doesn't apply in all states.
     
  31. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Can't strike, but can take job action.
     
  32. MissJill

    MissJill Cohort

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    Yea, I student taught in a district where they hadn't settled their contract. It was very uncomfortable. I felt very bad for the untenured teachers.
     
  33. MissJill

    MissJill Cohort

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    Yea, I student taught in a district where they hadn't settled their contract. It was very uncomfortable. I felt very bad for the untenured teachers.
     
  34. DrivingPigeon

    DrivingPigeon Phenom

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    That's what I don't understand. People think it's crazy that there are teachers out there making $75,000. However, those teachers usually have their master's and have been working for 30 years. Compare that to any other profession where people have been working 30 years and have their master's.

    We have been going through the same thing in Wisconsin. One of my best friends is on Governor Walker's side. And she has a 2-year-old! Anyone with kids should think that man is straight out of the loony bin.
     
  35. Rabbitt

    Rabbitt Connoisseur

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    I too have been HURT greatly this year by people I thought were my friends. Other people who praise me for my teaching skills.

    I think it is jealousy as they feel we work 40 hours a week, no weekends or holidays, no night shifts, spring break, long X-mas, and summers. They do not see the entire picture.

    Gov Walker has solved the money problem by taking it from public workers who did not create the problem. Plus many say our state doesn't have a money problem...but as a whole US, there is a money problem.
     
  36. wldywall

    wldywall Connoisseur

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    See that is what I thought, a few years ago there was a list out at the news sights of the states facing financial crisis and those that were stable, and I always thought Wisconsin was on the list of stable ones. (I remember because since MI was not on the list, I looked at all the neighbors) ....... things that make you go hummmmm

    Okay I checked the news source for that old story, seems Wisconsin and MI were on the list, but it was considered less likely than CA and IL going belly up (this was back in 2008). So if the states knew back then there was a problem, why wait until now and take it out on public workers? For example why in a city in MI where the schools get almost no money (not detroit) was millions of dollars spent building a turtle fence of about 400-600ft to keep turtles from getting on the road (rare since the road has a high bank)???
     
  37. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Aug 17, 2011

    in my area teachers who have far less than 30 years experience make more than that amount...doesn't make it any easier when your profession is dragged through the mud by your state governor, legislature and the media, however.
     
  38. lilmisses1014

    lilmisses1014 Comrade

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    Aug 17, 2011

    Most teachers are not repaying a 6-figure student loan debt for their degree or shelling out thousands of dollars to help them study for a 2-day long exam. Yes, we put in a lot of hours, but my husband-- and most every attorney I know-- works twice as hard. (My friends who work for their city aren't quite as busy, but they're not making much more than I am, either.) I wish my husband could find a job that pays him $300/hour! (He was recently laid off and the market here SUCKS for attorneys.) I could go on, but I'll spare you. :p

    The lawyer bashing is alive and well. I can't believe the things that people-- STRANGERS-- will say to my husband and/or me. I am just as sensitive and defensive of the legal field as I am ours.
     
  39. wldywall

    wldywall Connoisseur

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    Aug 17, 2011

    I have a huge 6 figure student loan debt, and have paid a lot to train for my certification tests, of course the tests are not 2 days long, but still.....

    I guess it has more to do with the respect the positions get. Lawyers, no matter how much they are joked about, get more respect than teachers do, especially in the media. Oh, and lawyers can always go to work for themselves, teachers can't.
     
  40. eddygirl

    eddygirl Companion

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    Aug 17, 2011

    No disrespect to your hubby, lillmisses. My brother is an attorney, and I myself planned to be an attorney many years ago. My point was that, until recently, teaching was always considered a respected profession, whereas lawyers have been dealing with this disrespect for a long time. But it is true that many lawyers here, especially big firms in Chicago, charge $300+ an hour. They DO work more hours than many 9-5 type jobs, but I'd venture to guess that there are many teachers who put in more hours than the lawyers I know.
     
  41. waterfall

    waterfall Maven

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    Aug 17, 2011

    One of my good friends/coworkers has a brother who is an attorney in NYC. He makes over 200 an hour and he's in his late 20's! When he comes out here to visit her,he'll often come to happy hour with us and then pay the entire tab (a couple drinks each, several appetizers to share for a table of 10-12 people) while joking that he makes more than all of us combined. I'm sure he works his butt off...no question there. However, he is compensated for his efforts.
     

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