"I Don't Discipline My Child....."

Student "E" in kindergarten is the lowest academically I've had in 35 years. His behavior is atrocious. He goes out of his way to punch someone in the stomach for no reason. A secretary who speaks his home language called and asked the mom if there was a consequence she could provide at home, since we have exhausted our discipline options here at school. Mom says, "Oh, no, I don't discipline my child. He has issues!" I'm thinking, "Well, why do you think he has issues!" And that attitude is rampant in our school population. The parents won't read to their children--in any language. They won't provide any behavior consequences. They tell us, "That's why we send them to school--for the teachers to do that." Are you kidding me! Please tell me this isn't a trend in multiple places! I don't know how much more I can take!

 

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Plenty of parents do parent, but there are always (and have always been) those who do not. Unfortunately, we can't control what happens at home. We can only control what happens at school.

 

That is despicable. I don't even know what to say.

 

I'm curious - what is his home language?

 

There are two statements I hear often. Only one irks me, though:
1. I don't know what to do with him/her.
2. There's nothing I can do.

With statement #1, I feel able to insert my thoughts about a possible consequence. With statement #2, though, I feel as though the parent has already given up and washed their hands of the situation.

With a lot of my Spanish-speaking parents, I hear, "S/he is really bad. I don't know what to do!"

 

At my last school, this problem was so pervasive that the PTSA set up a series of parenting classes conducted in Spanish that were held during the day. Why does it seem to be especially prevalent among Hispanic parents?

 

Ugh. My eye started twitching reading this.

Unfortunately, there are parents (if we can call them that) like this and always will be. And what's such a shame is that it's inevitably the child who will pay the price for these people's inability or unwillingness to be actual parents.

I see it even in high school. And let me tell you, by the time a child like this reaches high school...whoa buddy. What a mess!

I honestly believe this lack of parenting and disciplining of children at home is what is leading to the increase of school violence. These kids are not taught empathy. They aren't taught how to socialize properly. They aren't taught "No". They aren't taught to self-soothe as infants. They aren't taught coping mechanisms for when they don't get what they want. And on it goes. And the result is a human being who has no self-control, doesn't care about anyone else but him/herself, and is endlessly frustrated and unhappy with his/her life and doesn't know why. That's a recipe for disaster.

 

Well, we are a 99.98% white school, and we have some of the same issues. I'm on year 25, and there have always been parents who were not good at parenting. Some are multi-generational poor parenting families. We do offer parenting classes, but many are uninterested or unwilling or unable to attend. And I get that it is HARD to start parenting after they've been allowed to roam freely for so long.

I hear a lot of "I can't make him/her do *insert whatever we need done that isn't getting done*". I want to say that they CAN because they are the parent. The issue is that they won't.

 

This is not my experience. I mostly have taught Hispanics for over 20 years and most of these parents don't say such things. I found that also true when I taught at a wealthy school with few knowing any Spanish. I have found apathy to be something from parents of all different backgrounds, but fortunately the statement by the OP is not something that is the majority of any group that I have taught. I do understand that even having a few parents with this attitude can be quite discouraging. I think we have to be careful to not stereotype so quickly.

 

I'm fortunate that I work in a school where the parents are mostly pretty strict. I had one student copy answers on a test in my class, and the parent thought I was too nice to her son about it, and she assured me that she would have him trimming the lawn at their house with scissors as punishment lol. That said, I do get a few who think their child is an angel who can do no wrong. Either way, I TRY not to blame the parents as I know I don't want the parents blaming me.

 

Reminds me of a child I had that after he would hit someone, he would say he was sorry. When you talked to him, he thought that because he said he was sorry, it was okay. As I got to know the family, I think this is what he heard dad say to mom, after he had hit her.

 

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This parent seems to be leaning towards, “I don’t want to do this.”

I’ve seen parents who treat kids like friends. And you wouldn’t discipline a friend. They always want them happy, so the kid always has their way.

When things get out of hand, they let somebody else deal with it.

That’s us.

BTW, don’t look for nana ....because she’s worse.

 

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Generally, we are very permissive in our discipline. Overall, one would be hard-pressed to encounter Hispanic children getting disciplined in public. It is quite difficult for me to attend Spanish mass because there tend to be children walking toward the alter, jumping, making loud noises, talking, etc. Heck, I even have to remind my own family to not let my cousins call the shots and run the show!

 

I have seen this type of situation happen before. In an 8:1:1 Special Class Setting (behavior classroom), a student had serious aggression difficulties and was actually a danger to others.
Note: this was about 7 years ago. Also, this student was never my problem. I have heard a story from the teacher.
After the student ended up getting in his third fight of the school year (it was not October yet), the principal contacted the parents to inform them that he would be suspended for the remainder of the marking period. Apparently, the parents responded with a "He has behavior problems. He needs school. He is too difficult for us." (my opinion: at least, they are honest...but come on.)
Guess who showed the next day (during his suspension). He attempted to bite the teacher. (my opinion: get him out of here.)
Later that week, the parents were asked to come in for a conference to discuss the student's behavior and updates. At that point, the student was sitting in the classroom with the security guard. (apparently, the other students and teachers had to left the classroom.--- *they came to my room, that's how I found out about this]
The parents, behavioral specialist, and special education team had a discussion. The principal and superintendent came in to the conference room. The principal provided documentation of all misconducts (including fighting, physical contact, leaving the school property, threats-death threats, vandalism, graffiti) *This child is out of control and can not controlled.*
The superintendent explained that this child was a serious danger to the school environment. The principal showed the parents the endless documents about severe misconducts. The behavioral specialist recommended a behavioral therapy overnight program (not provided by the district). The special education coordinator said that this behavior is so severe that she agreed with a long-term suspension.
The parents defense: This is a direct result of my child's emotional disability. (Manifestation Determination Meeting....it was, technically, a result of the child's disability)
The special ed coordinator said that long-term suspension is a lenient consequence for the severe misconducts. The special education coordinator refused to sign off on this being a manifestation of the child's disability.
The child was still sent to school, even on suspension. You would think the child would stop...nope...still got into fights and broke a mirror in the bathroom. He was now creating makeshift weapons for his fights.
The security guard escorted the child to the office (not exactly the 1st time this has happened). This was October 2011.
The principal, special education team (not parents, though), superintendent, and a lawyer agreed that this student will be expelled, effective immediately.
The parents were called to pick up their child. The parents tried to convince the principal and superintendent that the child can not be dealt with at home; the child needs the class. (Basically...blah, blah, blah)
The child left the school and was officially expelled.
A week or so later, the parents came in to whine and complain their way back into the school.
The special education coordinator said this: "I understand you would like your child to return to the program and this district. However, his spot was taken by another student and he is an extreme danger to this school environment. I recommend that you seek a home-bound instruction director or consider sending this student to a behavioral therapy program that is overnight. This program for the severely emotionally disturbed is 6 months. After the 6 months and proof of a successful treatment, we can consider beginning the process of re-enrolled him in 5th grade.
Parents: "I guess, that can work. He is going into 6th grade, though."
SPED coordinator: While this may be true, he needs to retained a year or so.

The child went to the camp and it didn't really work. So, the school district did not allow for the child to re-enroll. However, the school district did make arrangements for the child to be to a 4:1:1 with his own 1:1 aide in a different school district. (The school district did offer a 4:1:1 program, but it would not suit this child's extreme needs.

 

My previous post shows that even dangerous child can have their parents "beat the system". After this incident, the school district and special education coordination team/departments have become very careful about the students who are enrolled. (Fortunately, across the school district, this has only occurred once. Yes, this child was the most extreme student in which the special education teams had to deal with.
I just texted the teacher about what happened to the child and she said that he is a wrestling coach and football coach.

 

You seem to be lumping all Hispanics together. Yes, I have gone to Spanish masses and they are often to one extreme or the other. Some are exactly as you describe (chaotic) while others you can hear a pin drop. It depends on what generation of Hispanics, how long they have been in US, whether they are from Mexico or Central America, and several other variables. My first impression about 30 years ago, might have been similar to yours, but after living and teaching in AZ for a long time, I find Hispanics are more diverse than they first appear.

 

YoungTeacherGuy is merely sharing his observations based on personal experiences in the Hispanic community in which he lives. Unless he is exaggerating or oversimplifying his own experiences, we should accept his comments to be valid. By definition, he is not stereotyping Hispanics - nor is he lumping all Hispanics together. Just because his experiences may not be the same as yours does not negate either set of viewpoints.

I'm sure if I were to share my experiences and some negative observations from having grown up in an Asian community, I too would be accused of - especially by non-Asian readers - stereotyping Asians and lumping them all together, . I appreciate YTG giving us a rare glimpse into his own community. Wouldn't you be interested in being given a behind-the-scenes peek into the Asian / black / or _____ community?

Having lived in one of the most multicultural cities in the U.S. for over 30 years, I've learned to recognize specific characteristics - both negative and positive - of several major ethnic groups. My discussions with members of these groups have confirmed my observations that they all have good and bad tendencies. It's up to the astute observer to discriminate between the two in order to better understand cultural differences. IMO, lumping everyone together as if no significant differences exist between various ethnic groups, can present serious complications whenever certain behavioral problems arise in our schools.

 

Did you guys know Teacher234 works for 1-800 Contacts? Nice try, but I'm not buying!!!

 

This thread reminds me of the time my then three year old was crying while I checked out at the grocery store. He was crying because he had behaved horribly and I therefore wouldn't buy him candy. I was totally calm and cool as he wasn't my first child and it wasn't my first rodeo. A woman in the next aisle felt sorry for him and offered to buy him candy. I kindly turned it down. She insisted and I explained it wasn't the money, it was a consequence that he chose. Then she gets mad at me for being mean to him "cause he's crying!" She got so pushy with the candy I had to finally take it away from her and give it to the clerk. She was really starting to freak me out. I had never had someone get so mad at me for that. Usually, parents back you up during tantrums! I was so frustrated. In the meantime, her angels were misbehaving like mad behind her.....with no correction at all. Some parents are great. Some are too lenient.

 

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Figures...

And what did I say about watching wrestling??

 

And directors, and teachers....

NAEYC strictly forbids ANY type of discipline in the preschool classroom. You are supposed to reward this negative behavior with hugs and/or redirection.

So if I come in with an attitude and slap my co-worker, will I get a raise a get pulled out of class to work on my paperwork all day??

 

Agreed. Mine your own business. Neighbors’ class is buck wild. My thing is, I know those brats will coming to my room next fall. If the teacher and aide did their job right, mine wouldn’t be so hard!

 

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Verdad

 

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This is quite a statement. I teach in a school with 90 percent upper,middle class white children and I see the same thing. Actually, my Hispanic children tend to be the most well behaved and family oriented children that I have. Please don't make judgements based on race.

 

I think we run into troubles when we start to equate things like poor parenting with certain groups; generalizations are never useful. I have taught many students over the years who could have benefited if their parents had made some very different decisions about their parenting. The only thing they all had in common was having parents who, for a variety of reasons, didn't hold their children accountable for their words or actions.

 

It is sooooo predictable that one would view my description of what I experienced and observed at my last school as being judgmental and racist. I don't believe my remarks can be characterized in either of those terms and ended by merely asking a question.

If you don't feel comfortable reading statements or even questions with ethnic references or if you don't approve of a lively interchange of ideas on provocative topics, you always have the option of not reading them. I believe we're all members of the human race and that we would all get along much better if we understood both the positive and negative aspects of different cultures. However, that would require our collective willingness to not only recognize, but openly acknowledge our strengths and weaknesses. I'm Asian, so does that make my comments racist?

I noticed that your experience in your predominately white school leads you to state, " . . .my Hispanic children tend to be the most well behaved and family oriented children that I have." What does that say about the others (i.e. white children) at your school? I would guess that if another teacher at your school had written a post making the same statement, but substituting the word Hispanic with the word white, you would have something to say about it. In other words, it would look like this: Actually, my white children tend to be the most well-behaved and family oriented children that I have. Seems like a double-standard to me!

While I have your attention, another often-maligned word is discrimination. I should point out that discrimination is not a bad word. As thinking beings, we continuously discriminate all day long just to survive. We discriminate between things that are safe or dangerous to touch, eat or drink. It's when we fail to discriminate between right and wrong that we run into trouble. It's also normal for us to discriminate between questionable individuals that we encounter and those that appear to pose no threat. You would be foolish not to discriminate and drive into an ethnic neighborhood notorious for the residents' disdain and violence towards outsiders. Teachers who fail to use professional discernment and consciously choose not to practice healthy discrimination in their classrooms often end up with more behavior problems than they can handle. Just my opinion FWIW and something for you to THINK ABOUT - for more than a few seconds.

Sorry, but I can't stand it when educators - of all people - try to stifle the free exchange of ideas under the pretense of what's PC - instead of allowing some of us to learn from each other. Reminds me of the schools where I used to work; such sterile learning environments for teachers.

 

verdad

Children & parents sense our feelings and watch our actions. When you teach a lesson on diversity, but always sit on the same side with the same people...everyone knows how you truly feel.

 

I do not work for 1-800 Contacts, nor do I know what that is.
This actually happened. Are some details missing and/or unorganized? Absolutely.
I did not experience this firsthand. My post was created based off a discussion that I had with the child's teacher a few years ago.
Wait....please explain to me why you feel my post was an advertisement.
I definitely was not selling anything.

 

@TrademarkTer Hello. I reread my post and realized why you may have thought my post was an advertisement. Chances are, the Behavior Camp thing was probably perceived as an advertisement. I am so sorry about that.
I was just explaining the outcome of the 2 or 3 month process. The child was sent to this behavioral residential camp for his school work and behavior. This is what the Special Education Coordinator and Behavioral Specialist recommended. (The child was expelled from the school, but still required instruction. The stubborn parents wanted him in the school setting, but since child was expelled, the parents and staff agreed to send him to a behavior camp.)
this child was not in my class, though.

 

Your font was tiny.

 

Oh...sorry about that. It was a very long post and I did not want to take up a substantial amount of space. (When I posted it, I realized changing the font does very little to nothing as far as taking up space goes.)