How would you have handled this out of control student and what should I have done?

Discussion in 'Elementary Education' started by Teacher_Lyn, Dec 5, 2008.

  1. Teacher_Lyn

    Teacher_Lyn Companion

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    Dec 5, 2008

    :help:"Johnny" kept messing around in the hallway during our class bathroom break. I warned him if he didn't get it together he wouldn't be allowed to watch the video when we got back into the room. He still kept talking, playing, swinging his arms, etc so I seperated him from the line. He started pouting and laying against the wall and stomping his feet.

    When we got into the classroom, I got the other students settled watching the film, then I put Johnny by himself and told him he had to write "I will not play in the hallway" 20 times, then he could join the class.

    He started crying and wailing loudly. I ignored him and went with teh class. He continued on for another 5 - 7 minutes. Finally, I went over to him and got really close and said in a low voice, "Do you want me to call your Mother so she can come up here and make you work?"

    He was still crying and barely respondd, so i repeated it. finally he said no and starts scribbling all over his paper. i told him he was making me mad and to pick up the pencil and write the sentence 20 times or I was going to take him to the office, then call Mom.

    he calmed down a little and picked up the pencil and started writing sloopily* but still writing nonetheless. i told him good job and once he finished writing the sentence 20 times he could watch the video.

    he goes, "TWENTY TIMES?!?" and starts freaking out and crying again and kicking the table. :eek: so i walked away and said, I am calling your mother.

    he screamed "NOOOOOOOO!" and started having a really bad tantrum in which he was kicking the desk and then he ran under the desk and started crying and screaming. i instead called the office to come remove him. :dizzy:

    when i went over to him, he ran from under the desk and slammed himself in the chair and started screaming. i told him to leave the room. He refused and kept crying and throwing a fit.

    i was scared he was going to hurt himself or someone else, so i took the back of the chair and dragged him and it into the hallway. I had him almsot out the door, when he started freaking out again and holding on to the doorframe.

    the teacher next door came out of her room and was looking all concerned. she said she had heard the racket and assumed at first it was a kindergartener freaking out in the room next door.

    i know you're not supposed to let the children get to you, but seriously, after that, i was about two seconds away from telling the principal he could keep this &%$^&$%& job and quitting.
     
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  3. scholarteacher

    scholarteacher Connoisseur

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    Dec 5, 2008

    I think the answer as far as what to do will depend entirely on 1) your principal--supportive or not? 2) school and district policy 3) the parents--cooperative? willing to work with you? And as far as it not getting to you, that's impossible. Part of the secret is to not let the kids know that one of them is getting to you. Tell him you're as stubborn as he is, and you will win, so he might as well save his strength and give up. And whenever he does do the right thing, praise the heck out of him!
     
  4. Learner4Life

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    We have a couple of these types of students... ours are 2nd graders too. Are these 9/11 babies??? What the heck???
    Anyway, our 2nd grade teacher has the heart of an Angel in my opinion because this is her second year of these types of students. We have a VERY supportive admin that removes them from the room and then tries to calm them down. It's a huge disruption to class but the students learn to get used to it (unfortunately). We have come up with no solutions for the problems but I wanted to let you know that you're not alone!!!
     
  5. 3Sons

    3Sons Connoisseur

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    Dec 5, 2008

    Can you explain what you mean by this question? Have you seen something related to it?
     
  6. MissHunny

    MissHunny Comrade

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    Dec 5, 2008

    Threat work with some kids and they will automatically do what they need to do to avoid thepunishment. Threats do not work wit others. I have astudent that will "shut down" fro time to time. If she gets frustrated with her work, get corrected for a innapropriate behavior, etc. she will completely shut down by not looking me in the eyes, refusing to respond to any questions and refusing to move. I quickly found out that threats do not work with her. One day she was refusing to do her writing even though I was spoon feeding her the sentnces and prompting her continuously. I told her she was oging to have to stay in a recess to finish her work if she refused to finish it. She still refused.
    After I found out the treats didn't work I tried another approach. Talking to her in the most positive, loving way is what she needs. Lots of encouragement and praise and she thrives.
     
  7. SpecSub

    SpecSub Comrade

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    Dec 5, 2008

    You have my sympathy because I work with 2 children who exhibit similar behaviors, all day, every day. One is now on home teaching and the other has an intervention team intervening daily. Is this his first episode or is this unusual for him?

    One thing that I noticed is that the consequences he was warned about were not followed through. For example, you told him he would not be allowed to watch the movie, but you changed the consequence when you got to the room. You threatened several times to call his mother but ended up calling the office instead. You need to have firm and fair consequences that you're willing to follow through with, and you need to do it every time if this type of incident reoccurs.

    If this is was a one-time incident, chalk it up to a lesson learned and be more careful to say what you mean so the child will know that X consequence will follow X behavior.

    If this is more than a one-time incident, then you may eventually, no, soon, need the support of administration and behavioral support specialists.
     
  8. Learner4Life

    Learner4Life Cohort

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    no I was just wondering why all these 2nd graders were having trouble. What was happening in the year they were born? Then I thought, 9/11. It is probably a stupid theory and it really has NO relavance behind it... I was just thinking out loud.
     
  9. DrivingPigeon

    DrivingPigeon Phenom

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    Dec 5, 2008

    I noticed a few things that I would have done differently right away.

    First of all, having him write something 20 times isn't really going to do anything. He needs to understand how his behavior was negatively affecting others and why he is expected to behave a certain way. Writing it down over and over won't change the behavior. Maybe you could have talked to him, and then he could have written or drawn how he was behaving and how he will behave differently next time. You should have had him sit in the hallway or the office to do this, since you did tell him he wasn't going to be able to watch the video.

    The other thing is that you shouldn't say to a child things like, "You're making me really mad." You're basically telling them to act a certain way just to please you. Again, that isn't going to motivate them to act how they should. Their motivation shouldn't be to please you.

    And some students do just blow up when punished. In that case, removing him from the classroom is probably your best bet, since he is intefering with the learning and safety of others.
     
  10. Teacher_Lyn

    Teacher_Lyn Companion

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    Dec 5, 2008

    Spec - You're absolutely right about me changing the consequences. I do that sometimes because punishing him does not make him work. I was thinking that if I gave him an incentive he would get his attitude together.

    Also I called the office instead of his Mom because while I was looking for her phone number on my contact list, he COMPLETELY freaked out and started screaming and kicking and flailing about. I feared he was going to hurt himself while I got Mom on the phone, so I changed up and called the office at the last minute.

    He's had episodes before, but not quite at this scale. Just last week, he was messing around and coloring pictures instead of working and when I took them away he got pouty and started crying loudly and crossing his arms and again refusing to work.

    When I went to call his Mom, he said No again and cried harder, then I put him on the phone with her. He cried awhile then calmed down. The following two days, he came in and acted like a completely different, well behaved child.

    Go figure.
     
  11. Teacher_Lyn

    Teacher_Lyn Companion

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    Hmm...that's an interesting suggestion. maybe because his behavior is so bad, like your student, he eventually tunes out and shuts down. i had a similar situation to yours where he wouldn't work so I told him I was going to take his PE time. He still wouldn't work so I kept him inside. He cried for like 15 minutes straight, then FINALLY calmed down and got the work done in like five minutes.

    i was baffled and really annoyed by that because its like, "why did you refuse to work and throw a fit if it was only going to take you five minutes? if you had done the work like i asked, you would have had time to color later AND got to go to PE":eek:

    i remember his last teacher told me that "Johnny" needs A LOT of praise. I guess I have to get myself more organized because I feel overwhelmed and it annoys me to constantly try and praise one student while juggling the issues of 20 others who are all needy and have special demands of their own. UGH
     
  12. Samothrace

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    Dec 5, 2008

    Sadly I have kids who do this kind of behavior almost daily. K-6 Any and all grades.

    Sadly, I work in an urban district that is completely unorganized and a complete mess. Sometimes I wonder when I move onto a more stable district if I'll remember what teaching in that kind of environment is like!
     
  13. Miss JE

    Miss JE Companion

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    If you haven't already, read Love and Logic or take a workshop on it. I have tried to use several of the strategies and find them useful!
     
  14. Mrs.Z.

    Mrs.Z. Companion

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    You have to wonder what is going on in this kid's life for hime to react like that. Short of it being a diagnosable disorder such as oppositional defiance or the like.

    I do feel for you as the tecaher, but he may not be getting much attention elsewhere, and a lot of times, kids at that age will do anything for attention, even negative attention is better than being ignored.

    I think you may have let him feel too powerful by asking him if he would do it. At a certain point it has to be "You ARE going to do this now" and absolutely walk away. After 2 minutes of a tantrum, I would get him out of there. Its far too disruptive for the rest of the class, and it sets the tone that they CAN get attention for behaving in that manner.
     
  15. TeacherSandra

    TeacherSandra Enthusiast

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    Dec 7, 2008

    From time to time, I have had students this year...thank goodness NOT THIS year!
    So, I can sympathize with you completely!
    Because this occured in front of the other students (it did didn't it?), I would never have had him go into the classroom with you all. Walk him into the office (or wherever) before you go into the room, but don't tell him where you're going or why...just yet.

    Not only did he create a horrible ruckus, he spoiled a part of the movie for the others and got everyone's attention. I'll bet they had something to talk about when they got home. :rolleyes:

    It's hard having a student like this, but just remember, you are the one in control of the situation. Get him out of there quickly and you won't be wasting your time or your other student's time & attention. :hugs:

    Good luck for next time...because unfortunately, there will be a next time.

    I'm curious to know what his parents thought of his behavior. what a brat! Sorry, I had to say that. There are many kids who love to push it to the limit and think they're really cute. ugh.
     
  16. TeacherSandra

    TeacherSandra Enthusiast

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    TeacherLyn, what happened when he was out of your classroom? Was he taken to the office? Was his mom called?
    Also, I would have his mom's phone number in my cell phone that is, if she is a supportive parent and wants you to call her...does she support you? does she back you up? does she take his side??
     
  17. TeacherSandra

    TeacherSandra Enthusiast

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    ok; I decided to go back and see if you had already answered my questions. Sounds like mom knows her kid and she's supportive. :thumb: Good for mom!
     
  18. NELNaples

    NELNaples Rookie

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    Dec 7, 2008

    Out of control child

    This is a tricky situation. Obviously, being a tough or trying to use a punishment-ish approach doesn't work. I know that people say not to do it but I would have got the kids settled and then pulled him aside. Most likely there is something going on there. Sometimes they just need to get whatever it is out by talking about it. Kids, especially at home, are either spoiled or ignored. It is hard to find those happy mediums. Also, perhaps seat him next to a stronger student that has a calmer attitude. I say stronger so that when he starts to get out of control they will say something, but not too meak that they just let it happen.

    I have a 1st grade class like this. There are at least 5 out of control, with another 4 coming in second.
     
  19. MissFroggy

    MissFroggy Aficionado

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    Dec 7, 2008

    Unfortunately I have a child similar to this in my class this year!

    This seems like a problem where things escalated out of control, but maybe things could go differently next time.


    "Johnny" kept messing around in the hallway during our class bathroom break. I warned him if he didn't get it together he wouldn't be allowed to watch the video when we got back into the room. He still kept talking, playing, swinging his arms, etc so I seperated him from the line. He started pouting and laying against the wall and stomping his feet.

    Are the children expected to stand perfectly still during the bathroom break or are they allowed to whisper quietly? How long is the break? I think we often expect a lot of children when we ask them to stand up straight or walk in line for a long amount of time- especially when they are already fidgety boys! When I was at a school where we had to do bathroom breaks, I would have them sit along the wall. This solved a lot of the wiggling problems. I also would allow them to whisper or talk softly to one another. Unless there is a real reason for not allowing any talking, I think this is fine. Kids need a break, and need time to socialize in the day.

    If that is really not acceptable in your school, separating him is fine. Does he understand though WHY he was separated. I sometimes wonder if these boys even know what they are doing! Like, I think it's a bit innate and they sometimes don't know they are doing it. Make sure you explicitly tell the group "Remember, in the hallway you need to to be as quiet as mice. Mrs. X's class is working in their room and we can't disturb them. When we get back to the classroom, we will have a 5 minute chat break before we start science."

    I really think it's important for kids to talk and play throughout the day. Some kids can only toe the line so long before a break down is almost inevitable.


    When we got into the classroom, I got the other students settled watching the film, then I put Johnny by himself and told him he had to write "I will not play in the hallway" 20 times, then he could join the class.

    I was always told this was considered corporal punishment! It doesn't relate to the problem exactly. I would have told the class that before they begin the next lesson, everyone has a 5 minute break to talk or play at their desks (teach them hand clapping games like slap and mary mack) but tell Johnny he has to sit out. He gets a 5 minute time out because he took his play time during the bathroom break.

    He started crying and wailing loudly. I ignored him and went with teh class. He continued on for another 5 - 7 minutes. Finally, I went over to him and got really close and said in a low voice, "Do you want me to call your Mother so she can come up here and make you work?"

    He was still crying and barely respondd, so i repeated it. finally he said no and starts scribbling all over his paper. i told him he was making me mad and to pick up the pencil and write the sentence 20 times or I was going to take him to the office, then call Mom.

    he calmed down a little and picked up the pencil and started writing sloopily* but still writing nonetheless. i told him good job and once he finished writing the sentence 20 times he could watch the video.

    he goes, "TWENTY TIMES?!?" and starts freaking out and crying again and kicking the table. :eek: so i walked away and said, I am calling your mother.

    he screamed "NOOOOOOOO!" and started having a really bad tantrum in which he was kicking the desk and then he ran under the desk and started crying and screaming. i instead called the office to come remove him. :dizzy:

    when i went over to him, he ran from under the desk and slammed himself in the chair and started screaming. i told him to leave the room. He refused and kept crying and throwing a fit.


    All this sounds like the escalation part. Even if given a time out this could have happened, but you handled it sort of like I would. If I had said he had to take 5 minutes apart from the group, and he cried, "5 minutes! noooooo!" and this happened, I probably would have said something like "you can do it here and then watch the video with everyone else or go to the office."

    i was scared he was going to hurt himself or someone else, so i took the back of the chair and dragged him and it into the hallway. I had him almsot out the door, when he started freaking out again and holding on to the doorframe.

    the teacher next door came out of her room and was looking all concerned. she said she had heard the racket and assumed at first it was a kindergartener freaking out in the room next door.

    i know you're not supposed to let the children get to you, but seriously, after that, i was about two seconds away from telling the principal he could keep this &%$^&$%& job and quitting.


    Did he ever write the sentence 20 times? If not, I think he won this argument. I wouldn't use that 20 times thing again. I'm surprised it's even allowed. Also, talk to your P and tell him that this child is apt to have fits and you need someone who can come and help in these situations- the counselor, the principal or something. I would contact his parents and let them know of the situation. If it happens again, you will need to call them in for a meeting w/ the school counselor and anyone else you can.

    I have a little boy who has now run away from our counselor AND the student service coordinator. We have had 3 meetings and he is in the process of being evaluated. It can be tough! We are not sure this boy can continue at our school unless there are some serious changes (we are a private school.) We'll see how it goes!
     

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