How much money do you make?

Discussion in 'General Education Archives' started by jonny49, Nov 15, 2006.

  1. TXTCHR29

    TXTCHR29 Cohort

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    Nov 23, 2006

    In my district:

    Starting pay, no experience is $40,000
    with masters is $42,000

    I have 7 years experience and I'm at $42,750

    After school tutorials is $20 an hour

    You must take at least 2 tests to be certified. The basic education test and then the test in your field. As an early childhood (kinder) teacher I had to take 3 tests. (professional development, elementary comprehensive and early childhood)

    You are required to renew your license every 5 years and must have 150 hours of professional development to do so.
     
  2. jonny49

    jonny49 Rookie

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    Nov 23, 2006


    I work in Calgary.
     
  3. Alaskanteach

    Alaskanteach Cohort

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    Nov 23, 2006

    I hate these pay questions because they leave so much info OUT..

    My sister in law moved to another state where the pay was a little lower. She thought she would take a pay cut of about $5000...

    Nope. The new district paid ALL of her health insurance and retirement, and life insurance..

    her take home was about $5000 MORE than her previous pay..

    Look at the BIG picture.
     
  4. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Nov 24, 2006


    Would you rather negotiate your own pay? The poster before you said negotiations weren't going well and you said that's what bothers you about unions. If for no other purpose, the power of a union during negotiations is vital. Nearby districts have gone on strike to keep healthcare the same for all teachers when the board wanted a tiered system - less benefits for new hires- a divide and conquer kind of thing...The unhion stood firm- the same healthcare plan for eveyone-now that's unity!! Don't know what you have experienced but my union has my back....
     
  5. muinteoir

    muinteoir Companion

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    Nov 25, 2006

    It varies greatly from district to district in Texas.
    I have a masters and 24 years of experience - I make $60,000+
     
  6. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    Nov 26, 2006

    Teacher federations (unions) are a fact of life in the public and separate (Catholic) school boards here. Teachers must belong. While things can sometimes get difficult during contract negotiations, having a powerful group working for the teachers provides us with constantly improving working conditions, benefits, and salary. The last collective agreement which was negotiated for us was for 4 years (previously they have only been for 2 years) and, in my school board, was achieved. Before I returned to teaching 6 years ago I was distintly anti-union; now I see the necessity.
     
  7. AngelHead

    AngelHead Comrade

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    I actually would like to negotiate my own contract because I bet I could get an above average salary, being an above average teacher. I'm not saying I don't like the union. They do a lot of great things, but I do wish my earnings were based on more than education and experience.

    btw, i make 38,000
     
  8. Mr. M

    Mr. M Rookie

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    Nov 27, 2006

    I haven't experienced a union. I have co-workers who've come from the North and talk about work stoppages and cut-throat politics. Education is enough of a political establishment without the complications of collective bargaining. Again, unions are devisive. On one side, there are teachers. On the other side, there are the people who pay the teachers. I don't see how the educational process can be at its most effective when those involved are on opposite sides of the table.

    When janitors strike, there are others who can clean.
    When steel workers strike, there are others who can weld.
    When mechanics strike, there are others who can fix.

    When teachers strike...
     
  9. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Nov 27, 2006

    Oh please- Tell that to the steel workers and welders and custodians and see where that gets you. I haven't had to go on strike- thank goodness BUT the area schools that have gone on strike did it over HEALTH CARE and EQUITY in PAY. When teachers can not reach an agreement in negotiations they go to job action first- they STILL TEACH!! and when they have to go on strike there are subs hired- there are enough subs on the forums here who will be more than happy to tell you how qualified they are and it gets them a chance to get a foot in the door and show what they can do. Striking is always a LAST measure- no one likes it. There are llocal districts that worked without a new contract for 2 years and still did not trike because it wasn't seen as an effective measure at that point- they were in mediation. But yes, teachers and boards can work quite effectively witihin the presence of a union given that all are treated respectfully.
     
  10. mikeyb1978

    mikeyb1978 New Member

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    Nov 27, 2006

    When looking at salary, not only should you look at cost of living, also look at pay in the future. There are districts in FL and TX that do not keep up with inflation. Yes they may start you at $40,000 but you are only making $43,000 in 10 years according to their current scales.
     
  11. Mr. M

    Mr. M Rookie

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    The teachers still teach during collective bargaining? How big of them.

    Look, anyone who gets into public education and later realizes the pay and benefits are bad is either misguided or...something. Benefits have been bad for a long time, they're bad now, and they'll be bad for a long time.

    I have a fundamental problem with teachers who complain about compensation. What did you expect?

    And my point is that a union of any kind creates/intensifies an us-against-them atmosphere. In education, that's counterproductive to the degree that it can be devestating.
     
  12. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    Nov 27, 2006

    In Canada, our education system falls under the mandate of the provincial governments who provide the funding for the school boards. The relationship between the ministry of education and the teachers has been strained (at best) for a long time. Our federation provides a buffer-zone, helping us to do our jobs to the best of our abilities. During our latest collective agreement negotiations, the major issue was not salary or benefits, it was preparation time. Elementary teachers were asking for 200 minutes per week of preparation time (time during the school day without students to prepare lessons, mark, etc.). At the time negotiations began we had 120 minutes per week. We we hoping to have conditions more on par with our colleagues in the secondary panel. I am the first to hope that I never need to go on strike; I do have difficulties with the fact that it is the students who suffer. This is probably an issue on which there can't be any agreement.
     
  13. Peachyness

    Peachyness Virtuoso

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    Nov 27, 2006

    I work in central valley california. With a BA, no experience, starting pay is $49,000. But, the downfall is that we pay quite a bit for our health insurance. about $700 a month, and that's the cheapest plan.
     
  14. MisterG

    MisterG Comrade

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    Nov 28, 2006

    I didnt read all of the replies, but there are alot of things to consider. When I see someone making 50+K a year, I don't think too much of it because lots of times, the cost of living is horrible.
    Im in Southern Wyoming and Im making around 33 or 35 with one year of experience added into that. However, I could actually be financially better off compared to those who are making 50k just because of the cost of living. ie...in Vegas, my wife and I were both making around 30k ish. She made a little more because of her 15 masters credits. So we maybe made around 65k a year combined. But the cost of living and various other expenses were outrageous! We lived paycheck to paycheck. We moved to MN and she got I think about the same or a little less and I worked as a para and while I made next to nothing, one teacher pay and one para pay was easier for us to live off of in MN. Now we are out in Wyoming and are on two teacher pays and the income is a bit better. If we werent so dumb with our money, we would be alot better off (ie...new motorcycle, college debts, credit cards, new double wide, new car...etc.)

    When you think of pay, think of at least these factors:
    1. cost of living
    2. taxes taken out (some states dont take out income tax)
    3. where you live
    4. years of experience and extra $$ degrees.
    5. costs of insurance...etc.
     
  15. teacheratheart

    teacheratheart Companion

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    Nov 28, 2006

    Let's not. My little brother didn't even graduate high school and makes $10,000 more a year than I do. So sad!!
     
  16. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Nov 28, 2006

    And I still think you're wrong- You were the one who wanted to know who was teaching when there were problems with negotiations. Teachers do! Whether working during mediation/extended contract/no contract or striking with subs covering, there are TEACHERS teaching.
    Benefits are not always bad- sorry if yours are. Mine are pretty darn good. I have colleagues who are the 'benefit providers' for their families as their spouses have less desirable health care benefits. We get sneezed on, coughed on, thrown up on, bled on- yes we deserve healthcare!! Everytime we negotiate they try to put healthcare on the table and my union has stood strong. Do I want to netgotiate that on my own? Hell no. And if we negotiated on our own, it would be a divide and conquer mentality on most boards- that's devisive, that's an us against them mentality.

    I have a very good relationship with my administrators and with the board. I am a PROFESSIONAL. I show up on time, do my job very well thank you very much, go the extra mile for my kids. And I end up with the PTA kids and the board kids and the not easy parent kids in my room. My membership (and active role) in my union does not cause a problem in these relationships. If anything it shows unity among PROFESSIONALS. And also how people on two 'different sides, if you must' can work cooperatively for the good of the kids.

    And please oh please, yes we all know we weren't going to become millionaires as teachers, but have you read the most recent issue of the NEA magazine (probably not, since you are not a 'union guy'...) but in that issue they clearly highlight and focus in on real-life teacher stories of PROFESSIONAL educators who are BARELY getting by. That's just wrong.
     
  17. Mr. M

    Mr. M Rookie

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    Nov 28, 2006

    Of course it's wrong. I'm not suggesting that teachers should blindly accept impoverishment. What I'm suggesting is that teachers should take more individual measures of proactivity. Czacza, we have fundamentally different approaches here. I believe I should take full responsibility for my compensation. I know my base salary won't cut it (in terms of my wife being able to stay home with the kids). So I make about $10,000 in stipends, I teach summer school, and I teach night classes at a local community college. In the end, I make plenty of money.

    You like the group approach. I like the individual approach. I don't want you or any other teacher to negotiate my salary. I'll take care of it on my own, thanks.

    I can agree to disagree. Apparently, you cannot, as is evidenced by your declarations that I'm wrong (not sure how my philosphy can be wrong) and your screaming.

    I'm a professional, too. I've got the PTA kids, the administrators' kids, the pastor's kids, the oil tycoon's kids...I've got them, too. We all do.

    And I never said I wanted to know where the teachers are during negotiations. I said "When teachers strike..."

    So yes, the subs are there. Okie dokie.

    Czacza, you said in an earlier post: "my union has my back." This seems (to me, and only to me...) to be consistent with sort of a mob mentality. Or that you are going to act fearlessly because your posse will intervene if you make a mistake. Forgive me (in lower-case letters) if I'm wrong.

    And I've got liability insurance. I think most teachers do. It's not as though I'm operating with absolutely no safety net. Again, we can philisophically disagree and both be happy. I'll be responsible for my own welfare. Your union can be responsible for yours.
     
  18. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Nov 28, 2006

    Oh I'm totally responsible for myself, believe me.

    And I was totally against the thought of a union when I first started teaching. I had a hard time wrapping my head around being a professional AND being a union member (my caps by the way are for emphasis, not screaming.....) I've found a balance for myself.

    Not sure on the 'most teachers have liability insurance thing'- as I said I'm responsible for myself. I CYA and I know my union 'has my back'- not in terms of I can slack and they'll back me up, but we watch out for each other- and part of that is geting the slackers in line because they make us all look bad.

    I, too, take on many many extra things on my plate to boost my take-home. So yes Mr M, this lady can take care of herself, despite being a member of a union, despite what you think.

    I'm fine agreeing to disagree. Debate can be healthy. Just keep in mind that many teachers on these forums are members of unions and professionals and take repsonsibility for themselves. Implying (or straight out saying) that we don't isn't responsible. Calling unions a mob, divisive and counter-productive may be your 'philosophy' as you call it, but that name-calling in itself can be divisive.
     
  19. Mr. M

    Mr. M Rookie

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    Nov 28, 2006

    Alrighty, one more post; then I'm finished for the day.

    Now that's just mean. When did I say anything about a lady not being able to take care of herself or anything even remotely similar?


    Uh, I said the phrase "has my back" speaks of a mob mentality. Good Lord, let's please be accurate.


    I said that unions can intensify the "us-against-them atmosphere. In education, that's counterproductive to the degree that it can be devestating." Again, the us-against-them atmosphere is counterproductive. If you're telling me that such an atmosphere is not present where you teach, then I sincerely applaud you and your union. And putting the word philsophy in quotes was silly.


    Name-calling?????



    And let me be as clear as I possibly can:
    My point is that unions are divisive. They create clear boundaries. They add to an already-supersaturated public education political process. That is it. I'm saying nothing about union members. I'm saying nothing about women (that comment of yours bothers me more than anything). I'm saying nothing but that I fundamentally. Oppose. Unions. In. Public. Education. Period.

    I've told you why. You've gotten mighty upset.

    I've attacked the notion of a hostile and politicized educational environment.

    You've attacked me.
     
  20. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    So sorry to offend your sensibilities. You definitely have strong opinions about public education and what's wrong with it...unions, it seems being one of them. Sorry, that's just not my experience. I'm not attacking- I felt attacked.

    We are all under tremendous pressure- federally, state-wide, standardized tests, NCLB, etc etc. In my experience, my union is not divisive- the division already exists. There are plenty out there willing to criticize the jobs we professionals do. (Afterall, the 'pundits' went to school at one time in their lives, surely they know how to run a school, how to fix education, what teachers SHOULD be doing....). Bottom line, there is a perception that we teachers just aren't doing enough. We should have more time added to our day, more days added to our work year, be required to prove our 'highly qualified' status according to NCLB, jump through just a few more hoops, fill out endless piles of paperwork, differentiate instruction, meet all student needs, ensure no child is left behind, etc etc and do all that with less than a COLA (cost of living adjustment- I'm not screaming about soda), not enough time to go to the bathroom, and maybe we should look at your healthcare plan....Yeah, division exists- I don't think the union put it there- we are public employees and the taxpayers (oh yeah, we are some of them ourselves) want the most bang for their buck. So the boards' feet are put to the fire to hold down costs, ie teacher salaries and benefits.
    I'm paid well by most public ed standards and still take on those extra jobs as discussed already- I know I wasn't going to get rich teaching- that's not why I do it. I just happen to have seen from experience the positvie sides of unions (after also considering the negatives and working actively within the union to fix some of those). I'm just saying- don't knock what you don't know. If your personal experience has not been good with unions, I'm sorry. Just don't color all unions and union members with the same crayon.
     
  21. Mr. M

    Mr. M Rookie

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    Okay, I couldn't resist.

    I'm I not speaking clearly enough? It's like you aren't even responding to what I'm actually saying. You are responding to, I don't know, what you think I'm saying or what you want me to have said.

    Czacza, I agree with nearly 100% of your previous post. The part I don't agree with is that I think unions are part of the problem in public education. I don't personally want to be part of a union. That's it. That's all. And if my state were to adopt a policy contrary to this, I'd move. Why? Because we don't need the politics. Phrases like "hold their feet to the fire" and "my union has my back" bother me because they're combative. That's what I think is counterproductive.

    You and I, we appear to have the same goals. We want the same things. We understand the problems in public education. The only thing we don't agree on is fundamental organization of teachers. But I'll freely admit that unions can be wildly successful with regard to whipping the slackers into shape. But because of the potential downfalls, unions make me skittish.

    Again, I do not believe that unions are a major problem with public education. The problems are due mainly to poor leadership. I don't think we need to hold anyone's feet to the fire. We just need new educational leaders.

    You seem to have taken a dislike to me for a bizarre reason. If you think I'm simplifying this, then please reread my previous posts. I never said anything about you as a union member, or about anyone else as a union member.

    You accused me of sexism where it doesn't exist. Were you to say something about Southerners, men, English teachers, or Cubs fans, then you'd have offended my sensibilities. No, you distorted something I said and replied with malice.

    On a related note, I teach in one of the most highly regarded districts in my state. Yes, benefits are not great. But we do have lots of choices. I could choose a benefits package that costs $400 less per month than the one I currently have. The thing is, my district's salaries are competitive. Very competitive. Part of the reason our salaries are so high (comparitively) is that the district wants to be an attractive place to work. Have you considered that maintaining excellence means maintaining competitive salaries, just as a solid union can help maintaining salaries? I would imagine that an excellent district with teachers who are union members maintains extremely competitive salaries. But we do okay without unions.
     
  22. MisterG

    MisterG Comrade

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    Nov 28, 2006

    Im going to chip in my 2 cents.

    I hate unions. Most often, they are filled with uneducated people doing basic simple jobs that anyone can do and they make a crapload of money doing so.
    Teachers unions are different. They are filled with professional educators that all have the collective goal of advancing education and getting the best education for the children, WHIle at the same time, protecting the employee from getting canned without due process. Im a member of the union for that sole reason...so that in case any wacko parent out there decides to take me to court, I have at least some sort of legal recourse.

    The unions also fight to help further education by taking things to court (ie....NCLB...read the news today?). Im all for the concept behind NCLB, but the stupidity of the law in and of itself is just insane and impossible to reach.

    Also, teacher salaries are relative to where you are located only. One can make 50K in New York and I could be better off on my 33k a year salary out here in Wyoming.

    Educational leadership is like all other aspects of the government. First you have the teacher, then the parents, then the principal, then school board, then superintendent...etc. Lots of managing. Hell, we even had a meeting to help us talk as a school about how to better communicate and how things should be done and in what way in our school district. But, that is the way it should be. Parents should be in charge of schools, Superintendents should be the voice and leaders of the district. School boards should help to make big decisions...etc.

    You can have politics with unions, or you can take unions out and still have a big pile of crap (politics) to wade through. Fact of life is that districts are always trying to find ways to cut costs. They try this by offering 0 to next to nothing for pay raises. If the district allows a big pay raise, it isnt just going to be there singing the Happy Happy Joy Joy song; no, its going to cut costs elsewhere. Where? Most likely the first stop is gong to be increasing class size, then second, health insurance. Next is health insurance of the retired employees. This happens everywhere. If your district manages great pay, decent increases, gives great healthcare without punishing anyone, protects the retired constistently...well Id be flat out amazed and would call this a first, and a occurance that is going to be short lived.
     
  23. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Because I said "this lady can take care of herself"? Come on now!!

    I also said "I'm fine agreeing to disagree. Debate can be healthy. Just keep in mind that many teachers on these forums are members of unions and professionals and take repsonsibility for themselves."

    I absolutely have not take a dislike to anyone- I don't know you!! I offered my experience as a union member. You are not a union member but seem to have a lot of opinions about unions. Period. I'm not a duck but I can have opinions about them - but a duck may have a different perspective than I have.

    I'm done with this conversation.
     
  24. Mr. M

    Mr. M Rookie

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    Ah! Then I'll take the last word. What you said was...

    If I misinterpreted, I apologize. And that you have a more personal, focused perspective regarding unions? I'll certainly concede that.

    This thread has been hijacked long enough, I agree, so I'll see you around.
     
  25. nancyb

    nancyb Companion

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    Dec 7, 2006

    unions

    I haven't read the whole post, but what I'm wondering is this, (and hopefully someone who knows more about this than I can comment):
    I am dismayed & disgusted with the state of education, and wonder if teacher unions can have an impact at the legislative level. Can't we make some changes if there are huge numbers of us, making our voices heard by politicians?
     
  26. MisterG

    MisterG Comrade

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    The unions are always trying to do what is best for education. They know that in Education, the teachers need to be looked after and they do a fairly good job of doing that. However, its big laws like NCLB that really screw education up. Right now for a perfect example...Im rushing through our math book this month to cover as much as I can to get my students ready for a big test in January. I AM teaching to the test! We met as a grade level team last week and determined what needed to be covered so the students would be prepared....I HATE that!

    Also, we met yesterday and had a big meeting and we talked abotu how we made AYP last year but we barely made it. over half of our students are not reading at grade level in the state. They talked about how a district in Washington or Oregon or somewhere up there had a plan to get their students to be up at the 90 percent level I think on math or reading and it took them 10 years to do it and most of the districts made it. However, NCLB wants 100 percent succes by 2014 which is statistically impossible.

    Teachers try to do as much as they can, but when you have people in government who have no idea what teachers actually need, want, or do...well the recipie is set for failure.
     
  27. stephenpe

    stephenpe Connoisseur

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    Dec 7, 2006

    Has anyone pointed out that unions and their meaning are different
    in various parts of the country. I know in some northern states you HAVE to be in the union, can strike and have adversarial relationships with the boards. My case in Fla. is you dont have to join and cannot strike. Our leaders (in my county) negotiate for
    us without pay. I think they hire a negotiator from outside sometimes. I think history showed us the bottom line left out human
    needs for awhile until people organized and got some protection.
    Now some think the pendulum has swung to far the other way.
    I think teachers are underpaid but there are lots of teachers and
    its market value, **** the needs of kids. All I know is I sleep well at night knowing I do an EXTREMELY valuable job and love doing it.
     
  28. Alaskanteach

    Alaskanteach Cohort

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    Dec 9, 2006

    Amongst all this discussion of unions, has anyone pointed out that now there is a union for doctors? I always thought of union as labor and professionals not so much as far as union, with the OBVIOUS exception to that being teachers' unions... but since I heard about doctors' unions, I guess as Stephenpe has pointed out, the jobs of unions is changing.

    Still not sure exactly how a doctor's union would work, or what they hope to accomplish..
     
  29. pruckelshaus

    pruckelshaus Rookie

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    Dec 10, 2006

    Yeah, but consider what things cost in a given area, which is certainly far from uniform across the country. Here (25 miles west of Philadelphia), a "starter" home costs $200-250k, and a 4BR/2.5BA "suburbian" is $450k or more. Starting salary in my district is about $42k. I'm not in it for the money, my wife makes all we need and I'm a career change from being a programmer where I made low 6 figures.

    Pete
     
  30. MisterG

    MisterG Comrade

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    I agree...you can make $x...but even though Im making more than you...I could actually be financially better off depending on the area we live. ie...in Vegas, homes in Summerlin (upperclass neighborhood) are around 300k easy. Homes elsewhere probably go for 200-250. MOst if not ALL homes down there are on small lots. I can go up to MN and get a home for 100k on a lake surrounded by trees and fresh air.
     
  31. Mamacita

    Mamacita Aficionado

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    Dec 10, 2006

    I'm sure by now everyone knows my stand on unions, but I'll say it again just to stir the pot a bit.

    After 26 years of union membership, loyal support, etc, etc, etc, la la la la, thinking about all those thousands of dollars I invested in the union, honestly believing it was worth it. . . . knowing now what I didn't know then, I wish I had just flushed the money down the toilet rather than let the union have it. At least I would have had the fun of watching the money swirl, and the end result would have been the same.

    Waste, waste, corruption and waste. And when the chips are down, the union is worthless. WORTHLESS.
     
  32. teacherintexas

    teacherintexas Maven

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    My district only pays $500 a year over the base, plus a hundred for each UIL event you sponsor or after school club you sponsor. I've been teaching fourteen years and this year is the first one I've gone over 40,000.
     
  33. lajoers3

    lajoers3 Comrade

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    Dec 11, 2006

    Someone asked about Australia - well I can tell you about that.

    I've just been offered a position in a private school and with 2years experience and a Bachelor of Education (Primary-Special Education) I will earn just over 54K. That's in Aussie $$$ of course so probably around 36-37K in $US. There is some but not a huge difference in pay between public and private sectors here. I noticed that for my salary scale the difference is hundreds of dollars different per year and NOT thousands with private schools paying the greater of the two.
     
  34. nancyb

    nancyb Companion

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    Dec 11, 2006

    Mamacita, please tell me more (and anyone else). I'm sincerely interested in hearing both sides of the coin. I've taught for 6 years, have never belonged to a union, nor been particularly pro or anti union. But my thought is this: So many teachers are disgusted with the way education is mandated in the US - couldn't the voices of many teachers make a change in things?
     

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