How long does it take in your state?

Discussion in 'Elementary Education' started by Alyssa20, Dec 16, 2017.

  1. Alyssa20

    Alyssa20 Rookie

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    I was thinking just recently, about how long it takes to become a fully qualified teacher in California. That's a whooping 7 years. 4 years=bachelor's degree, 1 year= credential program, 2 years= until you get your cleared credential (Induction Program). I heard from multiple sources that those first 2 years of your preliminary credential are the hardest. Many have said it is like a 2-year interview since you're constantly being evaluated and taking courses. So 7 years and 5 exams (CBSEST, 3 CSETS, and RICA). It seems so much, I have been feeling discouraged. But, with my Child Development degree...I really don't have many options for a well-paying job.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
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  3. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

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    That's crazy! For me it took 5 years in NJ. I was enrolled in a 5-year program in which I got my BA in math and my M.Ed. in math ed, along with my teacher certification. This included a semester of student teaching.
     
  4. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    I think she’s including provisional teacher certs so that’s another year. I think it might actually be 2 years of provisional now here in NJ.

    I assume you went to Rutgers since you had to do five years. Some schools you can do it in four. Most even if you can do it in four though it’s going to end up taking you six lol.
     
  5. Alyssa20

    Alyssa20 Rookie

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    Yeah, I'm including everything to be a fully-qualified teacher. In California, after the credential program you just get a preliminary credential. You then have to find a school to hire you, so then you can start the 2-year induction program to become a 'clear credential' aka fully-qualified teacher.
     
  6. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Phenom

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    Tell me about. I finished my BTSA program at the end of last academic school year. It is a good thing because that means a higher caliber of teachers will enter the profession. It is like this in places like Finland.

    See if you can do the accelerated 1-year BTSA program like I did.

    Basically, here’s what I did in California:

    4-year Bachelors
    1-year Teaching Credential Program
    1-year Masters & 1-year BTSA
     
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  7. waterfall

    waterfall Virtuoso

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    In Colorado, you get your provisional license and then have to do an induction class your first year of teaching. Mine was a giant waste of time. We went through this textbook called, "Why Didn't I Learn this in College," and I most certainly did learn all of the content in college. You do have to go through the induction to get a professional teaching license, but you're already teaching and earning a real salary (not like student teaching), so I don't know that I'd say it takes 5 years to "become a teacher." All you need to start teaching is your four year BA degree.

    I don't remember how long you can keep the provisional license for- it's either 3 years or 5 years? After my second year of teaching, I relocated and I went ahead and got my professional license before my other one was expired just to make sure that my new district wouldn't make me take their new teacher induction program!
     
  8. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    But that really isn't true in NJ today, due to the changes that took effect for the 2016 school year. Your undergrad degree is four years, and in some instances you can add another year to that. You must pass all of the Praxis Exams associated with your content area, so to teach middle school science, you must either pass the two science exams to become eligible in science, and then pass the four portions of the Elem. Ed. exams, or still pass the Elem. Ed exams and then pass the Middle School Specialty Content Exam: Science. Many candidates will need multiple tries at each of those Praxis Exams, based on what I know from teachers I have worked with and posts on this forum. That will earn you either your CEAS or your CE, depending if you started out to become a teacher. Once hired, you will have a provisional certificate for at least two years and a maximum of three years. Only at the end of the provisional period will you have a standard certificate. If someone followed your route, they would still be provisional for a minimum of two years once hired, so seven years to a clear or standard certificate.
     
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  9. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

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    What I recently found interesting about California credentialing is that teachers in other states get a Masters degree for the same work that California teachers do to get no degree.

    In Oregon, teachers can get hired straight out of their bachelor's degree, and they have to get a "Masters" degree within 5 years of teaching, which is a year long program that from what I gather is exactly the same as the year long credential program California teachers go through, except we didn't get a Masters degree out of it.
     
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  10. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    Same with NJ. You spend all of this time getting a standard certificate, but if you want a master's degree, you must take another 30-40 graduate credits to earn the master's. Of course, you can be working on the graduate degree while still in the provisional certificate phase, if desired.
     
  11. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Unless they changed it in the last 5 years, all I had to do in NJ during provisional cert was be observed 3 times i think. 10 week, 20 week, and one other I think. We didn’t need to take classes or anything.

    Is it that different?
     
  12. miss-m

    miss-m Groupie

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    Man, these make KS and MO seem easy. I did a 4 year program (though it took me 5 because I switched from EC to Elem.), the general praxis (I can't remember which test it was though) was a graduation requirement because we had to have our preliminary/initial license in MO to complete the program, and then I took a second praxis test to get certified in KS.

    Then to get my professional license for KS, I just had to complete one year at an accredited school with a mentor and a certain number of mentor/mentee (is this a word?) hours, and voila! Fully qualified teacher. I had to be observed by my principal 8 times I think? 2 formal and 2 informal observations per semester, or something like that. I can't remember, tbh, because even the formal observations were so low-key, and my P and AP were in and out of my room a lot anyway by invitation or on walkthroughs.

    The hardest part of the process was actually getting a teaching job, because the district I wanted to work in never responded to any of my applications. The district I'm in now isn't as high-achieving as the one I wanted to be in, but I love my school so it's fine with me.
     
  13. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    There are still observations, but now two years is the minimum to passing/effective evaluations. Most schools now have mandatory new teacher classes at the school. If you come through an AR program, you can add at least a year, but more likely close to two years of training in the AR program of your choosing, taken in conjunction with your active teaching job during the day. It does not have to be taken as college credits. Rutger's CESP is one of the more popular programs. The length of time is variable based on the sequence variation/availability.

    If a provisional teacher hasn't passed at the end of the two years, an additional year can be added to the provisional certificate (according to a presentation I saw on this subject). If you can't pass by the end of the three years, you can't remain provisional nor can you proceed to standard certificate. Strike three, you're out.

    http://www.state.nj.us/education/ed...tes/120616EvaluationofProvisionalTeachers.pdf

    http://www.state.nj.us/education/educators/license/PTPInfo.pdf
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
  14. Secondary Teach

    Secondary Teach Companion

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    You would think with how large the state of California is, and with the desperate need for educators, they'd lessen their requirements for teacher candidates. Contrarily, here in Louisiana one must only pass the Praxis Basic Skills Test, either the PK-3, 1-8, or 6-12 pedagogy Praxis, and the corresponding subject area Praxis. Of course other pre-requirements for certification include a B.A. or B.S. in a teachable field, education, or an educational related field, and either a semester or year-long paid internship. We do, however, get compensated poorly- be it in the private school or public school sector.
    :)
     
  15. Ima Teacher

    Ima Teacher Virtuoso

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    Here's what it took me in Kentucky.

    4-year BA
    1-year internship
    2-year MA
     
  16. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

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    Typical Californian credential programs at the public universities are one year with most courses taken in the summer and a few evening courses through the year while doing a full year of student teaching at the same time. There are some special programs at private unis I'm sure that might space it out for candidates that have conflicting work schedules but in my experience those are not the norm.
     
  17. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

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    After you get a credential and your first job with the preliminary credential, you're still regarded as a full teacher and have the teacher salary etc. The clear credential doesn't change anything except to say that you're done with BTSA and they may not be breathing down your neck as much.

    Same pay and stuff.

    Though you did forget to mention that you need 45-60 hours of k12 classroom experience and have passed the csets before even being accepted to the teacher credentialing program. These are usually volunteer hours where you're working for free. (I did these at a time in my life where working for free seemed like crazy because I was just trying to scrape up enough to live on and get places witgout a car.)
     
  18. Alyssa20

    Alyssa20 Rookie

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    Do Oregon teachers have to take exams similar to the CSETS? If I could be a teacher while getting my masters... then I much rather move to Oregon. It's the exams that worry me though.
     
  19. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    I'm confused. When my son became a teacher, the student teaching was part of the university program leading up to graduation. Fail student teaching, and you most likely won't be a teacher. However, you still have to pass all of the exams before you can be hired.
     
  20. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    I know that there are programs where one learns to teach after the undergrad degree, some with student teaching, some without. I worked with a teacher who went a fifth year. It can be considered undergrad in some schools, or grad school in others. I, on the other hand, came to teaching through the AR program, and there is no "student teaching", but there are over 200 hours of instruction taken while teaching, in addition to any mandated new teacher programs required and prepared by the district. NJ has upped the amount of preclassroom hours/service for AR teachers just beginning their trek through the system since when I went through the system.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2017
  21. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

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    Yes. They're called ORELAs. Honestly these tests like CSETs and ORELAs really aren't that bad. In my opinion, a person could totally pass them without having any prior education in the subject if they just studied using the test performance standards and some books from the library. This may be less true for the more specialized subjects but they were plenty doable.
     
  22. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Agreed, student teaching is before graduation. You can’t count it twice. If it is after and separated, that seems to be a school decision, not a state one.
     
  23. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

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    No. Our program was 1 year. You did the student teaching at the same time that you would take courses (you would take the courses in the evening), so it all happened in a single year. During this year you also took the TPAs (which were the most painful part of getting my clear credential).
     
  24. MissyB

    MissyB Rookie

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    This was the same way my program was set up. They were considered graduate classes and I worked as a student teacher the entire year. First semester I was in the classroom working Mon.-Wed. and then taking classes Thursday and Friday. Then second semester I worked as a student teacher all week and took classes in the evening and on Saturday. To get into the program I had to already have at least 45hrs in the classroom and passed everything except the RICA (that had to be completed before the end of the credential program).

    By the time I had finished everything I had 4 years for my B.A., 1 year to get my credential, then another 2 years completing BTSA while working as a full-time teacher. Other than people who go through Teach America I haven't encountered anyone completing it all any other way.
     
  25. Alyssa20

    Alyssa20 Rookie

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    I'm attending a CSU and they let me in despite not passing all my CSETS...I wish they didn't. Because if I can't pass my SubtestII then it was a huge waste of my time....I just wanted to hurry up and become a teacher. I never realized how demanding the program would be, and how difficult the SubtestII would be. I thought I could wing the Subtest II like the CBEST Math...not the case...especially with those written response questions...

    If your program allows you in despite not passing all CSETS....please never do it. It'll be so incredibly stressful.
     
  26. Alyssa20

    Alyssa20 Rookie

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    Yes. I'm afraid the Subtest II will be the only thing preventing from my dream of being a kindergarten teacher.
     
  27. Alyssa20

    Alyssa20 Rookie

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    None yet; I'm scheduled for January 22nd. But I've taken workshops and been using the cliff notes. I don't feel so confident with it though from my studying :( going to try my best nonetheless.
     
  28. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Phenom

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    You may just be psyching yourself out. This happens sometimes to the best of us, meaning the trepidation leading up to the test might be worse than the actual test. I would buy a test prep book and do problems from there until you gain mastery.

    I wish you the best of luck! :)
     
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  29. Alyssa20

    Alyssa20 Rookie

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    You're right. It's so tough, because I feel like I can't relax until I take it @_@ I just have so much anxiety over this. It's constantly in the back of my mind. But I am going to keep trying and trying. I mean...it took me 5 times to get my drivers licenses...if that explains my test anxiety x_x. Only with that, it didn't cost $100 each time ^^;
     
  30. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    And likely damaging society, one poorly educated kid at a time.
     
  31. Alyssa20

    Alyssa20 Rookie

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    That is very rude. I specifically want to teach Prek-1st Grade. The CSET SubtestII is at least at a 6th grade+ level. I know people say that having a multiple subject credential allows you to teach Prek-8th grade, but that's not what I want to teach. And if a school ever tried to move me to a higher grade, I'd leave that school. I got my degree in Child Development specifically because I enjoy educating the little ones. I also feel it's unfair to base intelligence solely on an exam. I worked hard throughout my life, and to have it all based on me passing the Subtest II seems unjustified. Also, Liberal Studies graduates are waived from the CSETS all together. They had the luxury to have a teacher and assignments backing them up. I passed all my math courses throughout school and college, and that was due to not being pressured and left alone to study without any support. If I had an instructor and had a semester to pass math, then I would not have any problems.
     
  32. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    You haven’t even taken the test yet so I couldn’t be talking about you yet. Hopefully i wont ever because you’ll pass. Keep in mind, you don’t get to decide placement, and no one would believe 5 years in when they moved you to 5th grade, you’d announce you’d be doing a disservice to children and leave. I’m sure plenty of teachers on this forum could tell you stories of teachers being switched right before school starts.

    Every teacher needs a certain level of basic skills to fully understand enough to teach concepts correctly and effectively. They also need to be able to anticipate mistakes and to understand how to correct them.

    Does a heart surgeon not need a basic level of knowledge of the brain since they do their work below the neck?
     
  33. Alyssa20

    Alyssa20 Rookie

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    I see job listings on Edjoin plenty of times specifically for certain grade levels. The CSET isn't 'basic' it's very in depth and focuses on topics that I didn't learn until I was at least in Junior High (I'm 24, so it wasn't that long ago). I just feel it isn't justified to throw passionate educators into an exam and judge them based on that. I'm a very passionate and dedicated person; I would be a great teacher. It's not my dream to teacher upper graders...I wouldn't enjoy, especially since I've already experienced that while subbing. I just enjoy little kids more and intend to stick to that grade level. My 2nd grade teacher, is still teaching 2nd grade today. Not everyone is moved.
     
  34. MissyB

    MissyB Rookie

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    That wasn't true for me at my CSU. Even though I was a Liberal Studies (Pre-Cred) major I had to take all the CSETS before I could be accepted into the credential program. The same was true for a friend who received her BA/credential from the same CSU as me just this May.

    And be prepared to teach an upper grade during your student teaching. Since Multiple Subject credentials cover K-8th I've hear most programs assign you a lower grade for one semester and an upper grade for the other during your student teaching. I prefer teaching primary grades but as a student teacher I was placed with kindergarten class and then a 5th grade class.
     
  35. Alyssa20

    Alyssa20 Rookie

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    The waiver is a recent thing currently happening. CSU Stanislaus just got theirs waived in October, my friend majored in Liberal Studies and decided to wait to see if the waiver passed before taking the CSETS. My point is that many Liberal Studies graduates are being waived. I just feel it isn't fair for the rest of us. If they allowed everyone the option to take a course instead, then it'd be fair. I mean, for American Government and Writing they allow the option to take a course. I don't understand why everyone can't have that option for CSETS. If a course covers the same as the exams, why not? It's not like courses don't have multiple exams within the semester anyways.
     
  36. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Your 2nd grade teacher is the exception not the rule. Standards for teachers aren’t high enough as it is. They should make the tests harder if you ask me.

    Again, nothing personal.
     
  37. Alyssa20

    Alyssa20 Rookie

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    Harder? There's already a 60% passing rate. I don't understand this country's fixation on exams. Exams don't equal intelligence. They just equal a standard that the 'higher ups' feel equals intelligence; which is unethical imo. Just because people's brains work differently and people have different learning styles, doesn't make them uneducated. I work best being taught. Having an instructor, assignments, and guidance throughout a semester is a method that I can learn from without feeling stressed and belittled. It's great that some people can pass an exam without having to study or worry much, but not everyone is like that. Many people pass all 3 exams the first time without even studying. How is that they are able to, yet I have to push myself hard to pass? It doesn't seem justified to judge people based on their ability to pass exams. I feel effort and dedication shows much more.
     
  38. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    There are plenty of lousy teachers out there. I had my share as a student. Too often the deciding factor is who you know or what you look like. If there were fewer qualified people, the kids would receive better quality candidates. Everyone is always trumpeting what they do in Finland. Getting into their teaching schools is like getting into our med schools.

    Simply put, it’s not about you. It’s about the kids.
     
  39. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

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    I don't think this is necessarily true. I knew a few teachers who had to retake the CSETs and they were very good teachers. Some just weren't great at testing or they built up their knowledge after the fact.

    Consequently, I knew more than a few teachers who were great experts in their subject, but they didn't last more than a year or two. Some left within their first year or dropped out of the program because they couldn't hack it with kids. And the kids HATED them.

    I think having a teacher who knows how to work well with kids who may not be a complete expert in their subject (but takes steps to rectify that) is preferable to the "sage on the stage" types who know it all but can't educate (or connect with in any capacity for that matter) another human being to save their lives.
     
  40. rpan

    rpan Cohort

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    Alyssa your passion is commendable. I wish you the best of luck in your bid to become a qualified teacher. I know you only want to teach a certain age group but you need to know that in this profession it’s about the kids as it should be and oftentimes we are called to do things we don’t want to, including teach an age group we don’t prefer. The P has to put the needs of the school and kids first. As teachers we have almost always had to make these sacrifices at least once or twice. We can’t just quit (I mean of course you can) when this happens, which it most probably will, especially to a new teacher/new hire with no seniority. It’s a good learning experience even if you don’t think so at the time! So bear that in mind when you become qualified.

    As for the tests, they rightly should be difficult to pass. I think this is for the benefit of the teacher and the kids. Teaching isn’t just any other profession and it’s not for everyone; not everyone can and should be a teacher; students have a right to a good teacher. Don’t give up. If you truly have the passion to teach, don’t give up.
     
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  41. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Obviously you miss my point if you think I believe classrooms should be staffed only by people who can successfully pass a test. That would be the same as focuses only on people who work well with children. Btw, that job already exists. Nanny/babysitter. You need more than that to teach.
     

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