How do you deal with constant tardies?

Discussion in 'Secondary Education' started by a teacher, Dec 26, 2014.

  1. a teacher

    a teacher Cohort

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    719
    Likes Received:
    20

    Dec 26, 2014

    I am interested to know what other options I can try other than lowering a student's grade, since that doesn't seem to motivate them much.
     
  2.  
  3. miss-m

    miss-m Devotee

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2014
    Messages:
    1,078
    Likes Received:
    503

    Dec 26, 2014

    What grade? That makes a difference in methods....
     
  4. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,596
    Likes Received:
    2,702

    Dec 26, 2014

    Is it the same students who are repeatedly tardy or lots of tardies among different students?

    Is it first period tardies or tardies all day long?

    What is your school's tardy policy?
     
  5. HistoryVA

    HistoryVA Devotee

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,016
    Likes Received:
    38

    Dec 26, 2014

    We have a school wide system. Late students (regardless of block) are not admitted to class unless they obtain a tardy pass. Three-four tardies in a semester gets detention. Fifth tardy and every tardy after that gets Saturday school. More than 23 min late to a class = absent
     
  6. donziejo

    donziejo Devotee

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,091
    Likes Received:
    1

    Dec 26, 2014

    It depends on the grade. My Fifth graders aren't in charge of their transportation. Nothing I can do about parents that don't value education. The school has a policy, but I dont.
     
  7. MrsJay

    MrsJay Rookie

    Joined:
    May 21, 2014
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0

    Dec 26, 2014

    I teach Kinder and will have direct conversations with the parent. I tell them and show them exactly what their child is missing when they are tardy and how it is effecting them both academically and socially. It has worked almost every time and the tardies either stop or are reduced drastically.
     
  8. Linguist92021

    Linguist92021 Phenom

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2010
    Messages:
    4,960
    Likes Received:
    1,150

    Dec 26, 2014

    This depends on the grade level and the school. Obviously elementary age kids aren't responsible for their own transportation so it should be a talk with the parents. Middle school and high school are different. It also depends if you want to motivate them to come to school / class on time or you want to punish them.

    if the school has a good policy you might just need to enforce it and not add anything different, but if you're dealing with specific issues then you might want to add to it.
    In secondary school there might be other issues. You might have a teacher who's not releasing the kids on time (lab clean up, PE not get changed on time, maybe keep them for a minute or so for classroom management issues) and then your problem is not the kids, you might want to chat with the teacher.

    So all this is very specific to your situation.
     
  9. a teacher

    a teacher Cohort

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    719
    Likes Received:
    20

    Dec 27, 2014

    I'll be more specific.

    Most of the problems are with the first class. We're on an alternating block so that means it's actually two classes, one one day and another the next. Some of these kids are slow and lazy in the morning and with the others it's parents. I try to find out so that I'm not punishing the kids who have no control over it, but I do take off points from their grade. I try to find this info out as soon as I can.

    Typically I allow 3 tardies before they have an Unsatisfactory for the grading period. On the 4th tardy I assign detention. Surprisingly, the kids usually show up. It's about 20 minutes clean up in my room after school, which is real helpful because we have minimal custodial help. But a new problem has developed.

    My administrator decided that my detention went against the school principles/philosophy. I don't even want to get into that because it's poorly thought-out. Anyway, they had a meeting and officially banned individual teacher-given detention. This is foolish to say the least because what I have to do now, according to the school policy, is first contact the parent, then set up a meeting after-school along with the admin if things don't improve. This causes the admin more work when I could be addressing the issue with detention. But if that's how they want it, that's their problem. They will soon see that their workload will be increasing.

    The problem I have with this new policy is that between their 4th tardy and when a meeting is set up, they can continue to flout the system. According to the policy, if they don't straighten up after a parent meeting with everyone concerned, they will be given school detention. The problem there is, again, when will it be assigned for and how many tardies will they continue to accumulate before they serve that time?

    Lastly, and this goes to those of you who are at schools that give lots of detention or for teachers who give detention immediately on tardies: does this change anything? Teachers at my school seem to be of the opinion that High School kids who are tardy (biggest problem is before school and after lunch) are always the same kids and nothing will change their behavior.
     
  10. Linguist92021

    Linguist92021 Phenom

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2010
    Messages:
    4,960
    Likes Received:
    1,150

    Dec 27, 2014

    How do you take points off their grade? Do you just take it off,or are they actually missing assignments? If you just take it off, I don't think it's a good way to go about it, because the kids might think you just want to punish them.

    I also think that giving them unsatisfactory after 4 tardies is way too harsh. What are you accomplishing with that? You're basically failing the kid early on (let's say after a few weeks) and they have no way to bring it up, Of course they won't care about homework, or classwork and will be tardy even more.
     
  11. a teacher

    a teacher Cohort

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    719
    Likes Received:
    20

    Dec 27, 2014

    They get a grade for their work habits every week. Tardies cause them to lose points no matter what, unless they're excused tardies. They still have their assignment grades, though if I didn't let them turn in their work when late, like an earlier poster, they'd definitely give up soon on classwork.
     
  12. HistoryVA

    HistoryVA Devotee

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,016
    Likes Received:
    38

    Dec 27, 2014

    My school saw a huge drop in tardies after implementing our system (which was done before I was on staff). The kids hate detention, but they REALLY hate Saturday school, which is the punishment for every tardy after number 4 for the rest of the semester. There will always be students who don't care, but out of the 150 students I see every two days, I probably have two who are chronically tardy (not counting the ones who are also chronically absent).
     
  13. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    24,958
    Likes Received:
    2,110

    Dec 27, 2014

    I'm in elementary. Tardy means late for school rather than late for class. School has an automatic letter that goes home at ten tardies. I send missed work home. If it was late to class I might consider lowering grade and sending home missed work for partial credit...
     
  14. a teacher

    a teacher Cohort

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    719
    Likes Received:
    20

    Dec 28, 2014

    Why are elementary teachers responding? This is a thread for secondary teachers.
     
  15. a teacher

    a teacher Cohort

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    719
    Likes Received:
    20

    Dec 28, 2014

    Wow, it seems like your school actually has their act together. Now THAT'S the way it should be done. I've always assumed that if the school or teacher has a consistent policy that's punitive and it can be enforced (can is the key thing here) it will motivate the lazy kids.
     
  16. Go Blue!

    Go Blue! Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,949
    Likes Received:
    17

    Dec 28, 2014

    Tardies is a huge problem at my school; most of our kids take the MTA bus to school and if they miss the bus or if it is late, then they are late.

    At my school, calling home is all we can do. Some teachers assign detentions, but few kids show up because there is no Admin follow through for those who skip. I never assign detentions - waste of time.

    We can't give "behavior" grades; we are only supposed to give grade based on work and assignments - not on effort. Judging/assessing effort and behavior is too subjective.
     
  17. Go Blue!

    Go Blue! Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,949
    Likes Received:
    17

    Dec 28, 2014

    Who runs your Saturday School?

    My P suggested having Saturday Detention, but she said that she would not be willing to give up her Saturday mornings to run it. Now, she said she would be more than happy to give teachers the building keys if they wanted to show up on Saturdays to run it. Also, my P said she couldn't pay us so we would essentially be volunteering.

    Everyone who had liked the idea of Saturday Detention when our P first mentioned it, now were like
    "Hell-to-the-No!"
     
  18. dgpiaffeteach

    dgpiaffeteach Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
    3,224
    Likes Received:
    147

    Dec 28, 2014

    Saturday school here is run by teachers. Four hours at $18 per hour. Fifth tardy and on earns students a Saturday school. Tardies reset each semester.
     
  19. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    8,453
    Likes Received:
    1,592

    Dec 28, 2014

    Most posters read the threads by what is most recent, not by the sub-forum unless there is a need to find something specifically in that arena. Even then, there is no specification that those NOT in that specialty are forbidden to post their thoughts.
     
  20. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    24,958
    Likes Received:
    2,110

    Dec 28, 2014

    Because all here are welcome to be part of the conversation. While this might be a 'secondary' thread, the sharing of many views from educators of varied experiences can be helpful and insightful, if not for you but possibly for some other member.

    :thumb:
     
  21. HistoryVA

    HistoryVA Devotee

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,016
    Likes Received:
    38

    Dec 28, 2014

    Teacher do, at $25 an hour pay for 4 hours per Saturday. My school pays in money or comp time for ANYTHING that they ask teachers do extra- tardy pass processing, bus duty, running detention (we don't have teacher-given detentions, just admin-given). Even if it's just "can you cover so-and-so's class for 30 min during your planning because they're running late"- we would get 30 minutes of comp time.
     
  22. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,713
    Likes Received:
    1,680

    Dec 28, 2014

    :agreed:
     
  23. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    4,330
    Likes Received:
    572

    Dec 28, 2014


    before reading ahead, here are some of the things I do:

    write a referral (school policy after three tardies - this has limited effect)
    assign detentions (lunch or afterschool)
    contact coaches

    hands-down the best thing I've done is to give short quizzes at the immediate start of class. These are timed and the bellwork on the board is to label a blank sheet of paper a certain way. So students that come in even 10 seconds late are at a disadvantage. Depending on the students, class makeup, etc. I will either follow school policy and give the student a zero for his missed work during an unexcused tardy, have the student take the quiz immediately as he walks in, with less time than his peers, or assign a makeup time for the student to come in for an alternate assignment. This may be the same quiz, it may be a different version of the quiz or it might be a different assignment, more lengthy, that covers the same information.

    All that being said, I have never had a situation where a student could not get to school on time if he/she really wanted to. I've had plenty of students with parents that caused them to run late, but with enough nagging, or by getting rides with friends or even, gasp, riding the bus, they were able to make it once the consequences became hard enough.
     
  24. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    4,330
    Likes Received:
    572

    Dec 28, 2014

    I have the quiz projected onto the board, either through powerpoint or by using my document camera. When the students come in they are to read the board for bellwork. The bellwork that day might read "get out a blank sheet of paper, write your name at the top and number it 1-5."

    then as soon as the bell rings I shut the door (which is locked), project the image onto the board (uncover the projector or slip a quiz under the document camera. I stand by the door to open it for anyone that is late. Then at whatever time (usually two minutes) I turn off the projector and announce "pencils down."

    The quiz is usually an easy quiz. I don't want to run into any issues with students that have difficulty reading - it is designed to openly reward the students that make it to class on time while making it difficult for tardy students.

    For what it is worth, I have only given actual zeros to the students that refuse to make up their time (come during lunch or after school to take the quiz). I don't want to punish behavior with grades but this does walk that fine line.

    Another thing I've done in the past, especially when I've had incredibly obnoxious, disruptive tardy students is to review key concepts immediately once the bell rings. The same concepts that are on the quiz. Tardy students miss the review. This works wonders, but can be tricky if you have a student that is often late but has excused tardies. For instance, I had a student that had to go to the nurse once she got off the bus for her medication each morning. At least once a week she was tardy because the line was so long. I wouldn't feel right using this method unless she was already in the class.
     
  25. a teacher

    a teacher Cohort

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    719
    Likes Received:
    20

    Jan 3, 2015

    Sure, but most of my tardy students are also failing, so putting academic pressure on does nothing.
     
  26. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    4,330
    Likes Received:
    572

    Jan 3, 2015

    At my school students can be mandated tutoring time. This can be before school, during lunch or after school. Kids hate to miss lunch with their friends, so lunch detention is typically something they want to avoid. Giving students a lengthy assignment that must be completed during lunch time tutoring usually helps get them working when they are supposed to.

    Some students just don't care. They go to school to get a free lunch, to make drug deals, to find a place to sleep that night. Passing a class is not high on their priority list. If they can't get to school on time and they don't care about passing my class, there isn't much I can do. They suffer the same consequences that the others do but until their disruptions impact the learning of others, I do what I can and leave the rest on them. If it does disrupt others' learning, then I fight for my class until administration does something about it. Thankfully at my school that doesn't require a lot of fighting.
     
  27. a teacher

    a teacher Cohort

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    719
    Likes Received:
    20

    Jan 4, 2015

    It seems like what I'm hearing is what admin at my school has concluded already: you can't stop tardies. Personally, I think if you have a school-wide detention program you can stop most of them, but I'm amazed anyone is getting paid for coming in on a Saturday for that! I guess all I can do is phone parents and put a lot of pressure on by setting up follow-up meetings between admin, parents, me and student if the parent can't affect change in the kid.
     
  28. dgpiaffeteach

    dgpiaffeteach Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
    3,224
    Likes Received:
    147

    Jan 5, 2015

    If you're in a union state, it's very common to get paid for anything beyond your contracted hours. Our contract specifies the days and hours we work. Anything extra (clubs, after school detention, mentoring other teachers, Saturday school, a lot of our committees) gets an addition stipend.
     
  29. a teacher

    a teacher Cohort

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    719
    Likes Received:
    20

    Jan 5, 2015

    For us the issue is no money in the budget. I think if you're getting paid to sit detention your school is extremely rare and your staff is extremely lucky!
     
  30. Go Blue!

    Go Blue! Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,949
    Likes Received:
    17

    Jan 5, 2015

    IA. Here, holding after-school detention would not get you a stipend. Now, it is up to the school to decide if they want to budget/pay teachers for Saturday detention; the distict does not supply money for this as they do for other things like coaching a club/team.
     
  31. dgpiaffeteach

    dgpiaffeteach Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
    3,224
    Likes Received:
    147

    Jan 5, 2015

    I've been in different parts of my state and it's always been a paid position. I guess my state is just lucky :) But again, we do have quite a few strong unions!

    ETA: I actually can't imagine NOT getting paid to cover Saturday detention. I definitely wouldn't be volunteering for it!
     
  32. HistoryVA

    HistoryVA Devotee

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,016
    Likes Received:
    38

    Jan 5, 2015

    Amazingly, we are a non-union state! I've spoken to teachers in other districts and it's very different. Interestingly, my district has very little money. There's no 1:1 programs or anything like that- 2 of our 5 high schools are still chalkboard and chalk schools, but they pay the teachers (in money or comp time) for tons of things.
     
  33. a teacher

    a teacher Cohort

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    719
    Likes Received:
    20

    Jan 7, 2015

    So what would you all do if tardy kids DON'T care about their grades? Just ignore it?
     
  34. Linguist92021

    Linguist92021 Phenom

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2010
    Messages:
    4,960
    Likes Received:
    1,150

    Jan 7, 2015

    There will always be students who just don't care, and as I always tell them, "I can't care more about your education than you do". If you have an overall plan that encourages being on time (quizzes or warm ups done in the first 5 minutes and can't be made up, etc), called home, talked to the student etc etc, then it sounds like you have done everything in your power and can't stress about 3-5 students. If it's 20 + then the problem is different, maybe they don't understand how it impacts their grade, they don't respect you or the class, etc.

    At my school we always have a handful of kids who don't make it to first period or are very late (a lot of our kids walk 8+ miles), and a lot of them just don't care.
    One kid was notoriously late but he always made up the work. Another one almost never made it, maybe once every 2 weeks and when he asked me to make up any work after 2 months, I told him to forget it, there's no way. I already had talked to him several times by then, and it seemed that sleeping in was just more important (his brother was the same way the year before). I can't worry about kids like these, because I tried everything.
     
  35. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    4,330
    Likes Received:
    572

    Jan 7, 2015

    I totally agree with Linguist. Many of these children have been trained by the teachers/schools before you to be apathetic. Some have parents that are/were just as apathetic.

    If sleeping 30 extra minutes in the morning is more important than passing a class, that is way beyond the responsibility of a teacher.
     
  36. a teacher

    a teacher Cohort

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    719
    Likes Received:
    20

    Jan 9, 2015

    :thumb:
     
  37. a teacher

    a teacher Cohort

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    719
    Likes Received:
    20

    Jan 9, 2015

    And the punishment is that they AND their parents will be suffering for the laziness in the future.
     
  38. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,713
    Likes Received:
    1,680

    Jan 9, 2015

    You can lead a horse to water...
     
  39. a teacher

    a teacher Cohort

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    719
    Likes Received:
    20

    Jan 9, 2015

    Exactly. Good to know justice will be done without us having to get involved!
     
  40. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    4,330
    Likes Received:
    572

    Jan 10, 2015


    Just for the record, I don't believe it is our job as educators to be concerned with "justice." I'm a firm rule-follower. I believe it promotes equity and responsibility. And I use the rules to those ends.

    "Justice" belongs in the courts. I'm all for it, at that level. Not in the classroom though.
     
  41. a teacher

    a teacher Cohort

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    719
    Likes Received:
    20

    Jan 10, 2015

    Justice meaning the lazy kids aren't going to get away with anything! That makes us all happy.
     

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. MrsC,
  2. miss-m
Total: 320 (members: 3, guests: 288, robots: 29)
test