How can 11th grade boys be SO IMMATURE!!!

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Pi-R-Squared, Sep 15, 2017.

  1. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Connoisseur

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    I have a small class with just 11th grade boys. They are the most immature group of boys I've ever seen. They go around the hallway kicking each other, poking and annoying others, slapping and pushing. They get to my room and it continues. I've talked to admin about how they behave and all they do is wish me luck. This class reminds me of a bunch of rowdy kids I had last year. I only have them for 1 period instead of 3 periods last year. Their academic achievement is low and they are all lazy. I'm quickly losing this class but I'm not stressing out over it. However, would it help if I call parents? I mean, how much assistance can parents provide when their 16-18 year old sons behave like 8 year olds?
     
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  3. JimG

    JimG Comrade

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    Yes, it would.
     
  4. YoungTeacherGuy

    YoungTeacherGuy Phenom

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    What type of classroom management strategies do you employ?
     
  5. rpan

    rpan Cohort

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    Parents can play a role for sure. 16-18 year olds may like to think they are all grown up, they can do what they want and pretty much rule the world. But parents still pay the bills, give them privileges that they enjoy, so while not all parents will be supportive, some do step up and be the parent by taking away privileges e.g. Paying phone bills, cable bills, money for gas and going out etc. until their child shows improvement in grades and or behaviour.
     
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  6. JimG

    JimG Comrade

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    In general, parents are usually helpful and supportive. Make sure you have a clear reason for calling them, though. Have specific examples of the student's disruptful actions, when they occurred, and why they were inappropriate. Otherwise, it could just feel like complaining.

    Document every parent contact you make, including the time and date, what you discussed, and the nature of any resolution you two agreed on. If the student continues to misbehave to the point where you feel you need to write a discipline referral, you will have evidence that you have tried other options.

    In my experience, MOST of the time, I get support from the parent, and the student is afraid to act up again because they now know that consequences for their actions in my classroom can follow them home. I also think that it means more contacting them directly preemptively rather than having a principal do it on your behalf after a write-up. It shows that you are in control of your classroom and garners more respect from the student and the parent.
     
  7. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Connoisseur

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    The room is set up where I can get to students quickly if anything happens. Problem with that is everyone talks to each other. They've been together and separated from the upper level 11th grade (all girls) for 3+ years. Every teacher there has problems getting them to work. Even F's on their progress report don't faze them.
     
  8. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    I see men (and women) much older than this, acting just like this, in their 20's, 30's, and 40's. What your seeing is likely more of a character flaw. I wouldn't necessarily chalk it up to poor classroom management. Treat them with support not anger, but I wouldn't expect this behavior to suddenly change in 11th grade.
     
  9. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    If failing grades don't faze them, or their parents, I have some serious doubts that contacting the parents will be highly effective. I'm not saying NOT to contact the parents, only that I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for change to happen. When you say that they are separated from upper level, the first thing that pops into my mind is that you are working with students showing some learning disabilities, because low maturity levels can go hand in hand. I work with nothing but classified students, and every single one of them displays social and emotional behaviors significantly below grade level. Since it is only three boys, they are their own clique. Parents may not expect more than they are already doing. Just a thought.
     
  10. JimG

    JimG Comrade

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    With all due respect, I do not like the way you are thinking of it as a "character flaw". This implies that the problematic behavior is rooted in something innate that cannot be changed. Regardless of the student's character (subjective and largely out of your control) their behavior can be managed (it is much more objective and within your control). Identify the SPECEFIC behaviors that are problematic, and identify whether it is truly a problem or more of an annoyance. If it is a problem, take action to get the student to CHANGE it.

    I have a class that is probably 2 to 1 sophomore boys to girls. There is lots of "rowdy" behavior in it, but little of it is an actual problem that disrespects other students or disrupts learning. When it does cross the line to disruptive, they are usually good about settling down when I ADDRESS it I.E. take action to CHANGE the OBJECTIVE BEHAVIOR. If they didn't settle down, then I would take further action like rebuking a student privately before or after class or out in the hall, calling a parent, or sending them to the office (in that order). If I chalk it up as a character flaw, then that is taking a mindset that they will be rowdy at all times with nothing I can do to change it.
     
  11. AmyMyNamey

    AmyMyNamey Comrade

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    I've noticed this to be a problem across all age groups in nearly all demographics.

    You cannot undermine the parents, but you can do everything possible to introduce them to those social virtues they are missing. It is tough competing against lousy parents.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
  12. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Connoisseur

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    The specific problems that I see are as follows. Remember, this concerns 11th grade.

    1.). They hit and kick each other constantly. One will walk by and another one will stick his foot out and attempt to kick the other.

    2.). They like to slap and punch each other. If they get up to get a pencil or some paper, if they pass someone who is seated, he'll hit him. The one on the receiving end KNOWS the routine so he hits back.

    3.). I've seen them pinch each other as well. In the hall, I saw one pinch the backside of another one in the group. They're also very "huggy." They just can't stop touching each other.

    4.). All this nonsense takes place in the hall, classroom, and even in the lunchroom!

    5.). And on top of all that, they are academically low. They label themselves as "stupid."

    6.). Admin and other teachers have known about this group for years. Their elementary teachers have warned me and wished me luck. The P says do what you can with them. When I asked the AP about them, he put his hands together, bowed his head, closed his eyes, and wished me luck. Thus, I'm not the only one who's had trouble. I'm just the newest one. ;)
     
  13. Milsey

    Milsey Habitué

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    Some boys have a lot of pent up energy. I would suggest having them work outside in the hot sun or cold, mowing the property or tending to the hedges/flowerbeds. Tell them that's what they'll be doing if they don't shape up
     
  14. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Connoisseur

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    I also teach lower 9th and lower 12th grade classes. Both classes are well-behaved, respectful, and follow directions. Neither class kicks, punches, slaps, or hits others. It's just this one specific group that's just a pain.
     
  15. shoreline02

    shoreline02 Cohort

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    What other types of classroom management strategies are you using besides desk arrangement?
     
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  16. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Connoisseur

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    I've yet to call parents but that would be the 2nd step to mgmt. Didn't realize that could make a difference. I've called parents for bad grades or acting up at the middle school level, but having to call a parent to tell him/her that their child is kicking someone just sounds unbelievable!
     
  17. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    There are all kinds of learning disabilities which present in a variety of ways. The fact that these students refer to themselves as stupid is very telling.
     
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  18. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Connoisseur

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    when a new student arrived, I described the class as one that goes very slow. Then a student chimed in with, "It's because we're stupid."

    It's as if their learning and approaches to behavior were stunted back in elementary school. Their bodies got bigger but their mental development lagged. I've also begun to think about how lack of school achievement and immaturity are correlated. There must be scholarly articles written and researched on that.
     
  19. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    You should have some other management strategies before getting to parent phone calls. Other than having your desks arranged in a way that works for you and being prepared to call parents, how to proactively and reactively manage behavior in the classroom? When you make that call to parents, you need to be ready to tell them what you've already tried.
     
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  20. stellabelly

    stellabelly Rookie

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    When kids move from kid age to young age, things change, behavior change - IN this situation some of kids left the main route of life, so it is teachers duty tell them guide them talk with them and use proper Teaching methods, so they keen to learn interesting things but only to make study interesting.
     
  21. JimG

    JimG Comrade

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    I try to build positive relationships with all my students, but students like the ones you described are probably THE MOST IMPORTANT ones to do that with.
     
  22. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    Have these students every been evaluated by the child study team? That would be the very first thing I would want to know. Unfortunately, by 11th grade, if it hasn't happened, it almost certainly never will.
     
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  23. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Connoisseur

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    After reading all the replies, and thank you all for your input, I believe that I need to reboot and start over just with this bunch. They are not bad kids. Just childish and would rather play and goof off and talk to neighbors than actual work. And, I've allowed this all to happen. Plus, referring to Fred Jones, I likely have 5 "helpless handraisers." Thus, I know 3 of the 8 would actually work if left to their own devices. I can put those 3 in front, the next 3 in the middle, and the worst 2 in the back. Those 2 would shoot hornets and rubber bands when my back was turned! Gotta start meaning business starting tomorrow. I'll have them as seniors next year!
     
  24. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

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    I would be more inclined to put the trouble makers in the front, and/or, to not put the worst two right next to each other.

    My personal best classroom management technique, which may or may not work well for you, is randomness and brain breaks. Brain breaks I use are like find the five differences in the pics, complete the pun, guess what this picture is a closeup off, rebus puzzles, word scramble, etc in which they can win candy. Only takes two minutes of class, but many students have told me it's the highlight of their day. When I say randomness, I mean In the middle of a lesson on graphing polynomials, I will start reading to them the Wikipedia entry for watermelon out of the blue, or a random Florida statute (we are in NJ), or I'll just sit down in the middle of a lecture and start reading a newspaper. It keeps them entertained and on their toes, and it's been my go to strategy, though I know it wouldn't be effective for everybody.
     
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  25. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    I like all but the newspaper lol. What if admin walked in right at that moment?
     
  26. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

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    Might not be good for a new teacher, but I've done stuff like that during observations before so my admin know it's just for a minute or two and not for a whole period (and they've responded positively to it), but we do have a new P this year so he might not get it if he just walked in at random (though, believe it or not, I've never had an admin walk in at random in my 5 years here). I will admit it could backfire if your admin doesn't have a sense of humor, but mine seem to.
     
  27. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    I still like the brain breaks though and if asked you could easily support with research.
     
  28. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Speaking of immature, I'm hoping this was staged. I'm really not sure though.
     
  29. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/teenbrain/work/adolescent.html
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124119468
    http://www.newsminer.com/opinion/co...cle_d06c0148-f918-11e3-8459-001a4bcf6878.html
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jpc.12241/full
    http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/inside-the-mind/human-brain/teenage-brain1.htm
    http://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Families...-Problem-Solving-and-Decision-Making-095.aspx
    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2005/mar/03/1
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/anger-in-the-age-entitlement/201306/parenting-teenage-boys
    http://www.science20.com/news_releases/young_teen_brains_are_immature_just_stereotype
    http://mentalfloss.com/article/29895/5-reasons-teenagers-act-way-they-do
    https://www.livescience.com/13850-10-facts-parent-teen-brain.html
    https://www.teenhelp.com/puberty/teen-boys-development/
    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/health/os-teen-brain-research-20140927-story.html
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/teens-brains-key-to-their-impulsiveness/
    https://www.mentalhelp.net/articles/mental-emotional-social-changes-through-puberty/
    https://medlineplus.gov/teenmentalhealth.html
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/sci...mature-quicker-than-boys-scientists-find.html
    http://www.newsweek.com/getting-inside-teen-brain-162273
    https://www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/teenage-brain
    https://brainconnection.brainhq.com...ng-is-still-a-work-in-progress-for-teenagers/
    http://www.powershow.com/view/1d635-ODUxO/ADOLESCENT_BRAIN_DEVELOPMENT_powerpoint_ppt_presentation
    http://www.healthline.com/health-news/children-how-caffeine-harms-the-developing-brain-092513
    http://www.takepart.com/article/2014/06/20/how-sugar-changes-teen-brain/

    Just some light reading about the immature teen brain, primarily in males
     
  30. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Connoisseur

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    I rearranged seats today and placed them in separate seats even though the chairs are paired up. I think I can employ 1 of the 3 smarter ones as a helper. He can assist with one side while I work with the others. He didn't mind doing this today and it might end up benefitting all parties.
     
  31. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    Let me start by saying that I have no secondary experience - only K-5. However, what you've described is something that would be a big no-no in elementary. First, I wouldn't use the term "smart" or "smarter" to refer to a student, ever, even when you're only talking with other adults. Second, if he's in need of more challenge, then you should probably find a way to keep him engaged that further challenges him, rather than expecting him to help his struggling peers. It would be better for him, and then you're also avoiding sending the message to him and his peers that he is "better" than them. Third, you really should be getting around to all of your students rather than relying on one of their peers to do half of the room. You can't be sure what your students are understanding or not understanding if you're only making it to half of them.

    To be clear, I'm not saying that you should never have a student help other students. There is a time and a place for it. It's just not something that should be done on a regular basis with the same student with his/her same-age/grade peers.
     
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  32. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Exactly why I hate the notion of teacher helpers.
     
  33. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Connoisseur

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    I'm approaching this as peer-tutoring. The students are arranged where the 3 stronger ones could help the 5 weaker ones. That's what I was describing.
     
  34. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    Right, I understand... And, I think that intentional seating with academic achievement (as well as other factors) in mind is valuable. I just don't agree with the practice of having the same student peer-tutor the other same students on any sort of regular basis. It's one thing to have them seated nearby one another without them knowing how or why you assigned their seats, as well as allowing them to engage in on-topic conversation about their work while they complete their work. It's another to let them know who the helpers are (not sure if you were this explicit or not...) and to set it up as some sort or formal or regular structure in your class.
     
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  35. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Connoisseur

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    I did mention to the class that I have the 3 ready to deploy to help the remaining 5 when necessary. My reason is that the 5 who need help know they need help. Of the 8 students, 3 have Bs, 1 has a D, and 4 have Fs.
     
  36. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    I think what they are getting at is you are institutionalizing their inferiority to the others. Then you are taking kids who need to be pushed and challenged and keeping them in a holding pattern to make your job less burdensome by tutoring the others.
     
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  37. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    Exactly.
     
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  38. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Connoisseur

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    Admin suggested for this class that I give them bonus points on their tests if they help sweep and mop the floor and pick up any loose garbage. Maybe this is a good idea. One of my students took a test today. He just wrote 25 random numbers on the paper and handed it in. This is what's going on with this group.
     
  39. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Your admin sounds like he needs to be replaced. Perhaps offer one of your students 50 points to push admin down the stairs. That's basically what he's trying to do to your students. Incapacitate there futures.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017
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  40. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    That's NOT a good idea. Shouldn't their grades reflect their understanding of math, not their willingness to clean the classroom?

    Maybe the problem with the students in this class isn't really a problem they've created. Maybe it's a problem that has been cast upon them by teachers past and present. After years and years of being told - whether implicitly or explicitly - that they're not capable, they've given up. It sounds like that is only being reinforced with the peer tutoring and the idea of extra points for cleaning. Why should they bother trying when no one believes in them?
     
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  41. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    A student told me many years ago that, "it's better to be a badass than it is to be stupid." I try to remember that when I'm questioning why some of my lowest students behave the way they do.
     
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