"Hookup culture"

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Caesar753, Aug 15, 2013.

  1. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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  3. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    I agree with this view. While I certainly don't advocate a time when sexuality was something forbidden and feared by children and teens, I would love to see a great deal more respect paid to it. Many boys are being taught, somewhere, that sexual aggression is the norm. Their role in a mature relationship is being horribly skewed.
     
  4. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Surely it is:
    P




    O



    R




    N

    that is teaching them the aggression. It is everywhere and easily accessible thanks to the internet.
     
  5. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    Ugh, you really think ten-year old boys are getting their hands on that stuff? No. From what I have seen and heard, it's slightly older boys giving the young ones advice on how things should be done. Same way that, while I had a thorough talk about the biological aspects of reproduction, I learned a heck of a lot more from my more experienced gal pals.
     
  6. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Are you being serious? While I think that it likely plays a role, I don't think it's the biggest or most influential factor in this problem.
     
  7. MikeTeachesMath

    MikeTeachesMath Devotee

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    It's society as a whole. It's the media: TV, movies, music... all vehicles for young men to learn that it is okay to be this forceful with girls/women, that they have a "right" to be sexually explicit with women, and that they will be looked as a less of a man if they don't jump on the bandwagon.

    Pornography is the least of the problem.
     
  8. ajr

    ajr Rookie

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    Comprehensive sex education decreases this behavior in studies. It appears to open a venue to honestly discuss adult relationships vs. how they are portrayed elsewhere.

    Not just "here's how it works," but sex ed that addresses modern issues that are uncomfortable for most adults to discuss. You can see from this article that you HAVE to address issues like choking and anal sex; not just the biomechanics, but actually discuss it and that it is okay to have different preferences, but not force them on others. People are growing up seeing this behavior but don't have a place to discuss it outside a moralizing "Don't do it."

    Young adults are going to seek information out about sex, as it is a biologically appropriate time for them to be interested in it. If they can't get it from reputable sources, they're going to get it elsewhere. This includes popular culture and pornography.

    If anyone's interested in how the societial conceptualization of sex has evolved over time, try reading "Sex at Dawn," by C. Ryan and C. Jethá.
     
  9. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    This is a topic I have a difficult time "dealing" with. It's a HUGE issue and it worries me tremendously.

    (And yes, of course ten year old boys are getting their hands on porn! It's not like they have to drive to Barnes and Noble and buy a magazine. Much better stuff is a click away. Yes, yes, yes.)
     
  10. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

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    While it is certainly accessible I think the larger factor is the media like the article states. Crude joke makers are idolized and their jokes interpreted as funny. And the way people talk and treat each other on most of the internet isn't exactly polite. On the internet gender is removed as well so people talk to each other like that regardless if it's a girl or boy. Its not like this forum where the population is dominated by women. It's mostly men with a few women and the discourse usually ends up crude. I agree that we're failing at giving students a forum to discuss these concerns, especially when we try to remove all information and discussion from sex end classes.
     
  11. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    I know for a fact they can and do. It is available on handheld games such as PS2s, computer, smartphones. I can tell you that the older kids tell the younger kids or their buddies how to get to this stuff.
     
  12. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    I think peer group and culture carry a great deal more weight than does porn. That was certainly the case in the 1950s and 1960s, when porn was both softer and more difficult to acquire; one thinks of those as halcyon years in which people were much safer, but the truth is that abuse WAs occurring but was massively underreported (because, after all, who was going to believe a girl who'd allow that to happen to her?)
     
  13. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    I think it plays a huge role in our culture now. It makes kids more brazen. Add that to a culture that cheapens sex and shows it to be as commonplace as the daily shower, we get teens and younger kids that talk about think about it being no more special than going to the movies.
     
  14. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    Porn isn't the problem, but it's certainly part of it.
     
  15. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    Perhaps some of them are, but that wouldn't explain the pervasiveness of behavior. I don't remember seeing sexting in p0rnography, but I have seen evidence of teens teaching tweens how to send and solicit those funfun pics.
     
  16. ajr

    ajr Rookie

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    That's kind of an interesting question.

    The motivation behind sexting has been around forever - playing doctor in the modern age. Even though the exact same conversations happened over instant messaging (child of the 90s), we didn't have as ready access to cameras. In a way, sexting is the natural evolution of what people have always done; individuals communicating about things they're interested in.

    HOWEVER.

    However. BACK IN MY DAY, I didn't know you could fit certain objects where I've now seen them go. I didn't know sex had expanded to be a full sport, with 11-man offensive and defensive teams, referees and all. I also didn't know some people found jello-o weirdly erotic.

    So what's the issue - is it the newfound ability to communicate beyond the ability of most (not all) adults to intercept?

    Is it the newfound awareness of sexual niches that easy access to porn brings?

    I still argue it's neither of these. It's that we adults are uncomfortable talking about these things, and would rather avoid the topic or condemn it rather than have nonjudgmental discussions about serious issues.

    And fixing that may require doing some research on topics that make us very, very uncomfortable.
     
  17. dgpiaffeteach

    dgpiaffeteach Aficionado

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    I have to say I don't think porn is the issue. Also after talking to people I know who are still in high school (cousins and girls at my barn), I found it's not nearly as pervasive as I thought it was. Kids definitely did some things mentioned in the article when I was in high school (Catholic high school and public school) and in college but it was not the majority.
     
  18. Rockguykev

    Rockguykev Connoisseur

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    The issue is moral relativism that says once you're 18 whatever you do is absolutely fine. Kids have always, rightly, challenged that arbitrary age number and will continue to do so. If adults won't limit their behavior neither will kids.
     
  19. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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  20. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Well, at least someone agrees.

    "The Big Disconnect: Protecting Childhood and Family Relationships in the Digital Age. Steiner-Adair concludes that technology has stunted adolescent relationships, thanks to the “the influence of online porn,” the flattening of “nuance and body language” in textual communication, and the decline of teens going steady. “To be sure, some boys have always been crude,” Pesta writes. But modern lovers have taken the dynamic to “new extremes.”"
     
  21. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    Yes, but further down the page, "Anyone who thinks that text messages lack nuance has failed to mine the vast emotional potential of the Emoji keyboard; those who believe that Internet porn is more extreme than ever aren’t remembering the bestiality and abuse that punctuated some stag films of the 1970s."
     
  22. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    It may not be any nastier, but it is more available than before. While generations ago kids had to get their hands on the film. Today they just need any device that can connect to the internet. Parental controls do nothing. Kids know how to get around them, and it really isn't all that hard. All they have to do is some google searches and they can figure it out OR they know some "friend" that tells them how to get around parental controls. So, mom and/or dad is in the tv room and kid in another room with a device that can connect to the internet, it is available. So, not only will kids have access to the nasty stuff from the 70s, they have access to all kinds of new nasty stuff.
     
  23. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    I'm still not willing to blame pornography for this culture of sexual violence. It is a factor, but not an overriding one.
     
  24. DizneeTeachR

    DizneeTeachR Virtuoso

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    I don't play them but from what I've heard isn't aren't some video games nasty to women...probably no graphically (IDK). I think a lot of music is nasty to women (more in the genre of rap).
    As a teen I listened to the 90s pop rap stuff as it got nastier, I turned it to country...not saying they don't have some, but it's not as nasty as some of the rappers.
    My 2 cents...
     
  25. joeschmoe

    joeschmoe Companion

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    We can sit here and talk about this til our ears bleed. But the first line of defense against any of this stuff is the parents. If you teach your child good values and you get involved in their life, most of the teen issues would be a moot point.
     
  26. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Kids have always pushed the limits even when parents tried to teach their kids good values and morals. At a certain age, unless in a cloistered community, they did push the envelope. The difference in society now compared to previously comes down to several things.

    First, society is bombarded by what previous generations would have considered immoral content and attitudes. Second, society looked out for one another more and it was acceptable for the neighbor down the road to chastise a kid and call a parent. This doesn't happen as much anymore. Third, access, which is huge. There are now many more ways for kids to find trouble.

    What we see is a societal breakdown that goes beyond parents. I've known too many really good parents have children that went awry. At some point, society reaches critical mass with a bad attitude or behavior and coming back from that goes beyond just having one aspect of society solving the problem.

    Think about it. There are homeschoolers that do so for religious reasons to keep their kids away from the horrendous aspects of society and instead of being supported for trying to keep their children on the right road, they are the ones that are chastised thought of as a negative action. These parents know they can control what is in their house to a great extent by limiting technology, but sending the kids to school they can't keep their children away from the influences of society. Why do we do that if we want our children to behave morally? Do you know how hard it is to find a friend in schools these days that aren't participating in many of societies immoral behaviors.
     
  27. Rockguykev

    Rockguykev Connoisseur

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    About as hard as it is to find an adult friend who isn't. I'll say again, as long as adults are fine with the "problems" we see in kids, so too will the kids.
     
  28. MikeTeachesMath

    MikeTeachesMath Devotee

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    Can you give some examples of "immoral content and attitude" with their respective means of access, and then elaborate how each is contributing to the breakdown you're talking about?

    And yes, I'm serious, because I can't think of anything as extreme as you're implying that can be attributed simply to seeing it on the internet.

    So what is the solution, then?

    Okay, but that's absolutely ridiculous and the logic behind that is ass-backwards. Yes, the kids will be sheltered for their school years. Then what? When they go out into society, which they have to do eventually unless you're raising hermits, they won't know how to interact with many of the people out there (depending on what they do with their lives, of course). Homeschooling to keep them away from the "evils" of public school is over-kill and, to me, shows their parenting isn't strong enough to keep their kids in line so they look for a way to shelter and control them even more.

    Yes, they can control what is in their house, but what happens when the kid is ready to go to college or into the workforce?

    Again, I'm really not sure where you're going with this whole "immortal" thing. I think that you think this whole thing is a much more common problem than it really is.
     
  29. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    I talked about society instead of just parents as the problem because this is a societal problem. I agree 100% with what you are saying. If society as a whole think these behaviors are acceptable for them, kids will see them as acceptable also, and many will even if the parents don't think the same way.

    Just think how marketing and politics address kids. They set the kids up as the progressive thinkers who are in the know and those that are more conservative have to have their mind enlightened. Our society created an absolute mess.
     
  30. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Heart, I have no doubt you know someone that loves the idea that the child is constantly being exposed to immoral behavior. She may find that when this child is older that all of this exposure and "making his resolve stronger" will not have worked. I know a good number of kids that had strong religious families whose kids went awry even though as a younger child and young teen the resolve was there.

    Amish do disown children that don't adhere to the faith. Maybe not all of them, but I do know it to be the case. They send them out and let them decide. If they decide on the side of immorality, they cut themselves off from the community.

    My initial comment was to "joeshmoe" who said that parents can fix this problem by parenting better. I just don't believe this to be so. They can have an impact on certain children, but some will be swayed no matter how well the parent tries with the child. Sometimes the lure of not having to control yourself in many different ways is more alluring than being responsible.
     
  31. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Mike, our views on this issue are so far apart I don't feel that any discussion between the two of us will go anywhere productive. They never have in the past, and I don't see it happening in this discussion either. So, in the best interest of this thread, I am choosing to not even try to explain what might be viewed as immoral in the past but acceptable now because we just have completely different views on what is moral behavior.
     
  32. MikeTeachesMath

    MikeTeachesMath Devotee

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    Typical generalization. Discourse can be meaningful; abandonment, not so much.
     
  33. Rockguykev

    Rockguykev Connoisseur

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    How is that generalization? He's absolutely right. He's trying to keep this discussion useful and not delve into what will certainly become (and now already has) become pointless bickering and personal attacks.

    If you honestly believe that a parent homeschooling a child is pointless because eventually they will go into the real world any way than clearly you have a different view of child-rearing than many others. You are not going to be swayed, you've made it quite clear that you are right and they are wrong. What is the point in further pushing the issue?

    As far as your initial question as to what is considered moral now that wasn't as such say, 10 years ago, perhaps you should read the initial article.
     

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