Honest answers only please.

Discussion in 'Special Education' started by ZoomZoomZOOM, May 7, 2010.

  1. ZoomZoomZOOM

    ZoomZoomZOOM Devotee

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    May 7, 2010

    What is your opinion of over-controlling parents? :whistle: I had a parent observe me today who told me exactly how her child would be taught "because it's in his IEP." I've never felt so uncomfortable during a parent observation before. It was horrible.
     
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  3. karebear76

    karebear76 Habitué

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    May 7, 2010

    sorry. I've never dealt with a parent observation before. I have had overbearing mom try to tell me that I wasn't doing my job, or following the IEP etc. I clinched my teeth and said "Yes I know what his goals are; I wrote them." She also said something else about my ability so I just said "That's your opinion."

    It's really tough to deal with parents sometimes. Could you ask her what specifically she was concerned about in regards to the IEP? Maybe offer to have a conference to address her concerns.
     
  4. ZoomZoomZOOM

    ZoomZoomZOOM Devotee

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    That's what I was talking about actually. This isn't a parent of one of my students, it's a parent of a POTENTIAL student coming to middle school next year. She's hunting around the perfect life skills class.

    I don't have any experience with control freak parents. My parents have all been the total opposite. I've had to call DCFS before because of neglect. My parents never show up to conferences or IEP meetings, etc. Suddenly this stranger comes in and is running me through the ringer. The bad thing is, when she left, I think she liked me. She actually smiled. TWICE. :eek:
     
  5. anewstart101

    anewstart101 Cohort

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    May 7, 2010

    As a teacher and also an overbearing parent of a child with autism (somewhere in the middle of the spectrum). . .

    I figure if I can handle myself I can handle anyone. . . .

    The things I have done this year. . . .

    video tape and take my own data on my son to prove he can do things. . .

    I write things up with baselines, state standards and goals. . .. .

    school wants a month to take data

    they take data and change goals.. . . .

    I have pretty much written a lot of my sons own IEP. . . .not something I wanted to do

    School is finally realizing he can do somethings. . . .

    observed many times.

    The things I was able to accomplish this year:

    get my son a dynavox v communication device

    obtain goals in the area of begining readings.

    He did not know letters in october now he is identifying sightwords by the way he is very limited verbally


    While still in a moderate to severe classroom next year he will be going to the higher of the mod-severe classrooms rather the lowest one they have been pushing for two years.

    He is going to be in 3rd grade


    I finally feel like he is heading in the right direction I have done all of this without really an advocate or attorney and I have collaborated with school a lot more.

    my goal as aparent is to make sure my sons IEP is being carried out. Exacting teaching methods and not as much of a deal as making sure he learns every day. I would never tell a teacher how to teach my son

    I would give him or her tools to be successful like I gave the school a box of highly reinforcing items for my son. Too bad two of the items were stolen at the school he has a one to one.

    sorry for ranting. . .

    I may be overbearing and over wheliming I always use evidence and data to make my decisions and ask the schools for things.

    On a closing note, I purposely took a part time job this year so I could work on advocating for appropriate services for my son.
     
  6. bros

    bros Phenom

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    May 7, 2010

    By the time they get to middle school, the parents do not trust the school district at all.

    They become very protective because they want to make sure the law is being upheld to the letter.

    They watch the teachers like hawks because they want to make sure the school is doing everything fairly, including grading their child, since schools will boost grades just to pass a sped kid along
     
  7. Special-t

    Special-t Enthusiast

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    May 7, 2010

    On the side of a parent, it would be so difficult to leave a child with communication challenges in the hands of someone new. She's probably just worried sick that her son won't get the proper services if she doesn't make herself known. And, if she's shopping for the perfect life skills class, then she's probably looking for the best fit for her and her child ... so if she didn't like your style ... you probably won't have to worry about seeing her again.
     
  8. anewstart101

    anewstart101 Cohort

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    "By the time they get to middle school, the parents do not trust the school district at all."

    i do not think that is entirely trust although trust is already an issue for us in 2nd grade. . .


    I am doing my master project in special education on trust
     
  9. ZoomZoomZOOM

    ZoomZoomZOOM Devotee

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    May 8, 2010

    My son has mod MR. And I just go with the flow. I'm an active parent, I'm in contact with his teacher, and I don't always agree with everything he does. But I'm not demanding at all. Now does that mean maybe if I had been a bad ass that my son could read right now? Maybe. But who knows?

    My opinion is that there's always going to be good and bad teachers. And I feel like I'm a pretty decent teacher. I care about my kids and I work on their goals every day. I never raise my voice, I try to make learning fun, my classroom is freakin' awesome, I've made or bought 98% of my resources, I keep in contact with parents and value their input. However, if I have a paranoid, freaky parent come in with all kinds of demands, the last thing I'm going to go out of my way to do, is contact that parent. I'm going to avoid them like the plague. And if they're that demanding, then chances are, their kids are going to have major behaviors because they know their parent is not on the side of the teacher. And they'll play that card - I've seen it before.

    So yeah. I don't do too good with parents that look over their kids' IEP's with fine tooth combs. I'll probably tick a lot of parents off on this board, but that's just the way I feel. 'Cause when it comes right down to it, none of us are perfect. And those of us that are parents of kids with special needs AND teachers of kids with special needs know that we have our hands very full all day long. And one kiddo can't possibly get 100% each and ever day. Not possible.

    Now if you feel like your kid is being abused, neglected, or mis-treated, then yeah. Step in. If you want specific goals that the teacher hasn't thought of, then give your input at the IEP. But to come in for an observation at a possible school, and demand that your kid goes to this lunch period, and that specific math curriculums are taught to them, blah blah blah - to a decent teacher that you don't know - - I'm sorry, but that's just being a jerk.

    Okay, bring on the backlash. :whistle:
     
  10. bros

    bros Phenom

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    May 8, 2010

    Yeah, Trust is always a fun issue with parents and the school. My parents stopped trusting the school around third grade.
     
  11. teachersk

    teachersk Connoisseur

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    Zoom,

    I agree totally. Demanding parents are the worst. Note that i did not say "involved parents are the worst." Demanding parents - as in, the parents who think that their kid is the only kid on earth.

    Bros, I don't think that's always the case. In my opinion, the parents don't trust the teachers in the younger years because their kids are just babies, but by the time they hit middle school - they are either fairly trusting or have given up. I think it also depends on the area. In my case, the elementary classroom was a nightmare, and I have a few kids coming to me whose parents are amazed that I write a note home every day. It only took a few weeks to gain their trust and to show them that I really am in this for their kids and not a paycheck.

    Zoom, I have a perfect example of what you were saying about the demanding parents and how you don't want to feed into their demands. I also like to think that I am a pretty decent teacher. I pour my heart into my profession. I spend at least $1000-$2000 on my own materials every year. I spend many nights working on things for the classroom. Cooking supplies for our weekly cooking project are on my husband and I's grocery list each week. Some of my kids don't even have clean clothes or clothes without holes in them and I buy the clothes at Target that are on clearance to put in our reinforcer box. The kids use their tokens to BUY CLOTHES for themselves.

    I work my butt off WITHOUT anyone telling me what to do, WITHOUT the support of the administration, and WITHOUT parents breathing down my neck. Now, I Understand that some teachers need that extra edge/push/etc. to get them on track, but I, however, do not. So, it is slightly offensive when a parent thinks that they can tell me what to do.

    This year, I had a student move here from another country. Student was never in school before and was in diapers in September. Through MANY HOURS of planning, programming, training, and working with her, she is now on Phase V of PECS ("I want to eat the red gummy bear" and "I want to go to the bathroom") and completely toilet trained. Did the mom breathe down my neck and watch my every move? No. The mother wrote in, "I trust you. Do what you think is best. We appreciate everything you're doing." and send in things for the classroom (baby wipes, cleaning supplies, construction paper, snacks for the kids, money for trips) because she knew we needed it.

    I had a parent come visit the classroom a few weeks ago - her son will be in my class next year. She asked me about toilet training and I told her that I've toilet trained many kids in my teaching career and that it is definitely something we'd work on with her son. She asked what "method" i used. I said I didn't have a "method" that I used, but I just did things from various methods that have worked in the past, and it's always individual to the child. But, I did explain that I "timer trained" students (usually) and this was an effective way at getting them to make the correlation between timer going off and walking into the bathroom to pee. Through this, we require the student to hand the Bathroom PECS card (usually attached to their pants at all times during the beginning) -- so that they understand that they're "asking" for the bathroom (even if we are making them go). This way, they get it that the BATHROOM card means they go to the bathroom, and it seems to work out well.

    Being that I've had a 100% success rate with toilet training kids, I have no intentions of changing my methods. The mother proceeded to tell me that normal adults do not have to ask for the bathroom and that it is ridiculous to make children ask for the bathroom because they should know that if they have to go, they should just get up and go. I explained that it is very typical in a SCHOOL SETTING for children to ASK for the bathroom. The discussion got very heated, but I continued to stand my ground and say that in my classroom ALL of my kids have to ask for the bathroom, whether they are verbal or not. She wouldn't have anything to do with it and she said that when her son gets to my classroom, he will be permitted to get up and go to the bathroom as he pleases, because that's what grown "normal" adults do. I Just politely said that the classroom rules require all students to ask for the bathroom (including the kids in typical classrooms) and that there are no exceptions. The meeting ended....... but ugh.

    Who are you? Why do you think you can run my class? What the heck happens when we're in burger king and your kid doesn't know where the bathroom is? (Mom said he should leave the group to find it on his own.... because that's safe!!!!)

    But, as I mentioned to the case manager, it does NOT make me want to go above and beyond and do training, notes home, collaboration with parents, etc. (in the same way I did with my little girl from the other country who just moved here - who is making FAB PROGRESS without LITIGATION).

    Anyway... I feel your pain. One of the things that I've learned in the past is to always document everything (I have data to prove my toileting method is effective, and also already printed out all of the research behind "manding" for the bathroom and how it is one of the first steps in toilet training children with autism) -- as well as to be confident. If you back down, the parents will run you over. If you stand up tall, it might be a fight in the beginning, but then they know that they can't get past you - and you make the final decisions.

    These parents (spoken about above) have also demanded that the teacher participate in an 8 hr meeting every 2 weeks to review their child's programming. I'm sorry, but I am not putting a substitute with my children with severe autism every two weeks to meet with demanding parents. I've already told them that I won't be doing it because it's not in the best interest of my students. There is no reason for that. No other students parents get an 8 hr meeting every 2 weeks. Ridiculous.

    So, I am trying to stand tall and we'll see where we go. I might just have a kid running to the bathroom as he pleases next year.........

    But these parents do NOT understand that there is a difference between ADVOCATING and being INVOLVED, and being DEMANDING and RUDE. Demanding and Rude parents do not make me want to work harder for their kids. I would never deny a kid an education because of their parents, but they would get the bare bones basics that I am required to give them, because the extra energy that COULD be going to the kids and preparing lessons/materials/etc for them, would be spent dealing with the parents. The parents that are grateful, trusting, and allow me to TEACH - are the ones that reap the benefits of my love and passion for teaching children with autism.
     
  12. karebear76

    karebear76 Habitué

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    May 8, 2010

    :yeahthat:

    I totally agree with both Zoom & SK. There is a HUGE difference between caring & involved parents who advocate for their child and demanding, rude parents who just try to cause problems.

    I've had to deal with some right now with our grade level trips to the YMCA for water safety classes. They are insisting that the schedule be rearranged for their child. I've never had a complaint in 8 years of doing it a certain way (with a valid reason behind it) and this year I've had at least 4, including one who called the office and said if her son didn't go on the other day she was suing the school. Those are the types that frustrate me. Please speak with me & try to work out the best solution; don't tattle to my boss.

    I've had very few of those advocating for their child and many more of the disruptions.

    Sorry for how insensitive this sounds as well, but here goes anyway: Your child is the most important child to you, and yes they are important to me and I care about them and the education they deserve, HOWEVER, I cannot focus 100% sole, undivided attention to Johnny as there are 14 others who are most important to their parents and I also care about them, and deserve my energies as well. I do everything in my power to help all of my students; it really makes me angry to deal with a parent who acts as if their child is my only responsibility. I have a room full of students that must share my time; some of the things you ask are too much, really. I do what I can, and that is really all anyone can expect of me or any other teacher.
     
  13. teachersk

    teachersk Connoisseur

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    May 8, 2010

    This is why I will write weekly (or daily!!) thank you notes to my childrens' teachers when I am a parent. I will ask what I can do to help on my days off, I will send in necessary classroom supplies and holiday projects, I will bake cookies and send them to the teacher, and I will most of all, recognize that teaching is a darn hard profession to be in - and be sure that I recognize my children's teachers and the hard work they put in every day...
     
  14. bros

    bros Phenom

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    May 8, 2010

    Ahhh. The fine line between "I am sending this letter to make sure my child is receiving what is written in their IEP" and "WHAT DO YOU IDIOTS THINK YOU ARE DOING WITH MY PRECIOUS ANGELLLLLLLL"

    The parents of one of my classmates during K-2 was the latter. My parents HATED Them
     
  15. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Maven

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    May 9, 2010

    I have had my share of controlling parents. One mother was especially hard to take. First, she requested weekly e-mails about her son. Then, she changed her mind and wanted weekly phone calls. She always seemed to want these phone calls when I had an afterschool meeting. Sorry, but I wasn't staying later after a long meeting to talk to her on a Friday (she was also upset that I didnt' give her my cell phone number). She tried to tell me I wrote the IEP goals wrong. She wanted certain goals. She didn't even believe the CSE coordinator when HE told her that's the way we write goals at this school. Period. End of discussion. I finally convinced the principal that this child was just too "smart" for my class and he was moved to another class :)
     
  16. ZoomZoomZOOM

    ZoomZoomZOOM Devotee

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    sk, can you tell me more about how your make this work, what kinds of clothes your buying, and how much you're spending? My kids have to wear uniforms and I have one gal that has come to school for a record seven days in the row, wearing the same heavily soiled, wripped pants. Obviously her mom and dad have no problem with this and phone calls home are useless. (This student's 5th grade teacher said she reported them to DCFS several times the previous year. A lot of good it did.) So I think I'll need to go your route with the clothes - BUT KEEP THEM AT SCHOOL. Otherwise, we never see them again.


    Yep, this is the absolute BS that I'm talking about. REALLY LADY??? THEN FREAKIN' HOME-SCHOOL YOUR KID AND GET THE HELL OUT OF MY FACE. You know, I really think some of these psycho parents take these IEPs way too far. "Individualized education?" WHOO HOOOOO!!!! Okay, here's what I want! I'll take a cheeseburger, and fries, and- WHAT? NO, I'M PUTTING IT RIGHT HERE ON THIS IEP BECAUSE I CAN GET WHATEVER I WANT. NOW MAKE IT HAPPEN OR I'LL GO ABOVE YOUR HEAD.

    And what I was talking about earlier - about the kids who KNOW this and use it against the teachers - - I had a 4 track special ed student in History class come in without a pencil, without a notebook, slouch in his chair, laugh at me, and make demands "becuase it was in his IEP." I told him, "Is there anything in that IEP that says you should bring your pencial and paper to class? 'Cause if not, I think we need to put that in there." The little cocky bastard! I also had a kid with autism last year who tried to use his parents for leverage. Problem was, they had a lot of demands - but weren't jerks about it - and I could actually call them and say, "Check out what Johnny's trying to pull on me... Here's what I'm going to do about it. What are your thoughts?" And they agreed and worked with me.

    Does your case manager have your back? Are they a good case manager? 'Cause mine sucks balls. In fact, she's so difficult to like, that it's almost hard to be civil. So any kind of kissing up so she'll have my back later is near to impossible. *sigh*

    Okay this is where I'm stuck in the mud. I'm not the biggest "taker of data." I'm more of a "Okay, this seems to be working, lets keep going with it" kinda gal. Not to sound like a total dork though, 'cause I did come up with my own data tracking sheet where I do specific mini-tests for each IEP goal and track student progress every month - - which I then turn in to parents every quarter with their useless progress report. I track them every month because it's hard enough to do monthly, let alone weekly. I can't even remember to take attendance half the time. :blush:
     
  17. Emily Bronte

    Emily Bronte Groupie

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    May 9, 2010

    Useless progress report??
     
  18. Proud2BATeacher

    Proud2BATeacher Phenom

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    May 9, 2010

    lol, you won't get one from me. I have a parent this year who disliked her son's teacher last year b/c she would not give him homework. This year the complaint is that I don't give him enough homework:dizzy:. He is 9 years old, with a moderate cognitive delay. I give him 20 minutes of homework each night (if they follow the directions provided). I pretty know that it is a waste of time to send home homework b/c his parents do it for him...
     
  19. ZoomZoomZOOM

    ZoomZoomZOOM Devotee

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    Yeah my district's PRs are pretty lame. I rarely look at my son's. I usually just recycle it.

    P2B - - yeah, I never send homework home... I guess I should send something, at least weekly. Give the kiddos credit who actually turn it in. Couldn't hurt to reinforce skills at home. My problem is, I'm not teaching basic skills... and without the verbal and visual cues, I'm not sure they could tackle it at home. Hmm...
     
  20. teachersk

    teachersk Connoisseur

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    May 9, 2010

    Match games can be sent home to be completed... Great independent skill!
     
  21. anewstart101

    anewstart101 Cohort

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    May 9, 2010

    As a parent I was excited that the teacher thanked me for all I do.


    I am an involved parent and I try not to be rude most of the time very active and advocating. . . .

    I just want to know what is going on at school and how can I reinforce at home. . . .

    I have parents I do not know how to get a hold of of and my students are in a hospital and on a ventilator.

    They are not involved and transient. . .I try to update them as I can

    Have there been times when I was demanding sure!

    I had my reasons. . .

    My son has a communication device and last week it was sent home 4 times not working --- settings were changed and device was inooperable. . . It took me 3 days of constant reminding too get a working device. . . .I spent an hour a day on the phone to tech support fixing the device. . .

    I ended up having to arrange what the school was doing on a certain page so they did not have to change settings. . . .

    all in all it worked and the bumps are smoothed. . . .

    Did I tell them what to do? sure. . . .Now my son has a working device and can communicate at home and school.

    Parents and teachers have to find a balance and there are things parents and teachers both a like can do to facilitate a positive relationship. . .

    I make sure I write thank you's almost every day in my sons communication book. . . .

    Relationships are a two way street and it is up to us to figure out that demanding parent. IN the end it is about the child not the parent. . . .
     
  22. teachersk

    teachersk Connoisseur

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    May 9, 2010

    All I will say is this:

    I only have so much time. I am a dedicated teacher and I am not afraid to say that I give more than 100% on a daily basis. I pour my heart into my career, which consumes my life.


    I'm either going to give 150% to making my students progress, doing my best for them, creating materials for them, having fun with them, building relationships with them, and all around giving my all to them.

    OR

    I can give 75% to the kid and 75% to the parent. That's not fair to the kid. I would never "leave a kid behind" or "educationally neglect" a child because of their parents. But, I only have so much time. It can split as the parents choose, but if it were my kid, I'd want my kid to get 150% of the teachers time instead of using that time and energy to "please" me.

    Most teachers (I know not ALL!) are really doing their best, spending half their paychecks on classroom supplies, working into the late hours of the evening as their husband says, "Babe? You going to come eat dinner?", etc. PUSHY parents do not win my heart.

    Caring, loving, involved parents do.


    I am starting a school one day - and there will be a STRICT code of conduct that parents will have to adhere to - and in breaking the code of conduct their child could lose their spot at my highly sought after school. The only reason I do this is because TRUST is an important part of a school to home relationship. If the parents can't TRUST that the school is run out of love for these kids, then my teachers don't deserve to have to go through the heartache of working with these types of parents.

    Flame away, but that's just what I think.

    That's all!
     
  23. bros

    bros Phenom

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    May 9, 2010

    Yeah, there is a line between the parents pushing the teachers around because their child has a disability and a parent using their knowledge of the law to help their students. All advocates love it when they get a good special education teacher for their kids.
     
  24. ZoomZoomZOOM

    ZoomZoomZOOM Devotee

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    Well I'll be honest guys, I felt myself wishing my student with severe behaviors had come to school the day that pushy parent came in. Had she been able to see him in action, I'll bet she wouldn't set foot near our school next year. Sad I know. But true because she was just way too demanding and pushy. I've got way too much on my plate to worry about pleasing her 100% of the time.

    and anewstart - - I totally get what you're saying about the communication device. I'm having the same issues with my son's teacher and toilet training. I sent 3 pair of underwear and 2 new pair of shorts to school one day. He tried it one day and said "no way, he's not ready yet, back to pull ups" but then sent none of his spare clothes home AND sent him home in a spare pair of sweatpants from the school! And I know it gets busy and I know some aides are totally useless - but c'mon! There was no note or anything. I had to send a note and describe all the clothing and tell him to send them back - and there's still a pair of brand new shorts missing, AND he still refuses to take those school sweats out of my son's backpack.

    So yeah, sometimes I get a little angry too. But I try to keep my cool.
     
  25. bros

    bros Phenom

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    May 9, 2010

    A more difficult thing for advocates/parents is when the child doesn't display behaviors in school and then unleashes the emotional stress of the day at home. It can make for an interesting time, especially when schools refuse to believe that a child has autism/aspergers
     
  26. pontiac8411

    pontiac8411 Rookie

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    May 10, 2010

    It's funny. I wish I had more parental involvement. I have been in well over 30 kids meetings this year and of them, only two parents have shown up all year. I mean, it must be crazy to have them full involved, but I just wish i had some. I know it always seems as though the parents of autistic children are much more involved. I don't know why, but here it seems that way.
     
  27. anewstart101

    anewstart101 Cohort

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    May 11, 2010


    Can I say I saw a picture of your son on another post and he is a darling?

    I don't mean to hyjack and turn this into something else. . . .

    My son did not get fully potty trained till he was six. . . .locked my self in a room with him over a weekend and had extra clearner for the floor. . . . .
     
  28. ZoomZoomZOOM

    ZoomZoomZOOM Devotee

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    May 11, 2010

    Hey, hyjack away if you want to call my kid darling. :D

    I've heard about that weekend method. Kind of wish I had done that when my son was little. He honestly just has no concept (paints with and eats his poop) and he'll bang his head into the wall right next to the toilet and scream bloody murder. Neither my husband or myself wants to try it at this point.
     

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