Hiring woes

bella84 said:
I think we are looking at interviews with two different mindsets. I don't go into an interview thinking that it's a competition that I need to win. I don't go into interviews thinking that I have something to lose. I go into an interview confident that I have something to offer, while attempting to feel out the school and see if they have something to offer me in return: a good fit. For me, a good fit is a place where we share similar philosophies and beliefs about education, a place where there is a good climate, and place where I'll be able to connect with the staff. I'm interviewing them as much as they are interviewing me to see if we're a good fit for one another. If I don't get a job, I don't assume that there is something wrong with me, that there is something I need to be better at to please them and "beat" some other candidate to a job offer, or that I need to work on making a better case for myself. Instead, I assume that they must have found someone else who connected with them better personally, someone who had specific experience they were looking for, or someone whose personal beliefs about education align more to the school's. I don't then go think about how I can change to better impress them or anyone else. I remain confident in myself and what I bring to the table as a teacher. I just keep on looking until I find that right school and that right position where we mesh.

I think this because I've seen it from both sides - interviewer and interviewee. To each their own... but I just can't imagine interviewing for teaching jobs with the competitive "I've got something to lose" mindset. I'm much more comfortable with the "Hey, here's who I am. Take it if I'm right for you or leave it if I'm not." approach.
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That we can agree on. To me, every time I sit in front of an administrator, I feel like I'm competing with the rest of the pool. I know that someone is going to get the job and others will not. If I am the one who gets the offer, I know that I did something more right than other equally qualified applicants. If there are X applicants, there will be X-1 that didn't make the cut for any number of reasons (most of which you have stated). Schools would love to be able to hire many of the people they interview (if they didn't want to hire them at all they wouldn't make the interview stage), but money is finite and so are positions.
 
Teacherhere said:
What I don't get is why some people are trying to get teaching jobs in very competitive markets and then hoping to improve on interviewing for NEXT YEAR. It is crazy. Go get a teaching job elsewhere, relocate, do whatever has to be done to get that job now. It seems like a sense of entitlement that if you are loyal or wait your turn that the position will eventually open up to you. You may be waiting 10+ years and still not get hired. Nobody owes you a job, nor do they care how long you have been waiting. Candidates that are not hired in a district, usually are never hired there. Once you interview the principals talk and they may say that you were not what we are looking for. So you wind up in the candidate pool just to be overlooked year after year. My advice is simple, be ambitious and go elsewhere to make it happen.
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I think I listened to you a year before you said it. I got my job last year, and I'll be going back to it this year. You think a lot like I do, and if you read my old posts, you'll see that. Also, I'm incredibly impatient and hate to wait for anything.
 
Anonymous Barbie said:
This isn't about healthy discussions vs unhealthy discussions. This isn't about me as a teacher (and don't even try to phrase it like that, you have no idea what I am like in the classroom). This is about me, a PERSON with a concern, a worry, looking for a little guidance, maybe even just a friendly "there, there, pat, pat". If you want to talk politics please do it on another thread. It breaks my heart to not be in the classroom for over a year now, and to open myself up to talking about my problems being hired, only to have the topic changed, really hurts. (Imagine you're having relationship problems and you come to a friend for advice only to have the subject quickly changed to politics. Sucks, right?)

Just acknowledge there's a time and place for it and drop it. There's no need to drag my teaching into it. That's a low blow.
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Honestly didn't mean it as a slight of your skill in the profession. It was merely a philosophical comment. There are great teachers who would narrow the scope of an investigation if they know it will lead to failure for example. They might try to save time by saying that won't work because... Personally, I'd rather let the kid hit the dead end and learn how to handle such a situation.

I think you got sufficient responses. I agree there is some neediness and needless self loathing occuring on these boards (not you in particular). Personally, I'm interviewing for better admin jobs at the moment. I'm a great candidate, but I am facing an entire group of great candidates. The districts want an elite candidate so if they find one, us great ones will not get the job. I get bummed too, and then I try my best to be charming and excited in the next interview. Don't wear desperation on your sleeve. It's not appealing. Fake it until you make it.

I'd be applying for every job. Private, public, charter. Volunteer to teach ESL at the library. Anything to boost that resume.

Good Luck!
 
DAH said:
[QUOTE="bella84,...DAH, the question is: Why do your posts not display correctly when someone else quotes you?
Edit: See??? See how this post doesn't look right? Your whole quote isn't in the quote box. That's what we're wondering about.
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Bella, thank you for the clarification, but her attacks (on me) on other threads are numerous, and I'm done with it. I don't come to this forum to hear what SHE THINKS about what I say. [/QUOTE]

Guys/Girls, no one is personally attacking anyone. We are adults practicing stimulating conversations. We have interest in each others thoughts and experiences. We are all trying to grow.

You simply can't let constructive feedback bother you. How do you plan to make it in public education without being questioned or challenged? (not meant as slight) That's a daily occurance and an opportunity for growth.
 
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Teacherhere said:
What I don't get is why some people are trying to get teaching jobs in very competitive markets and then hoping to improve on interviewing for NEXT YEAR. It is crazy. Go get a teaching job elsewhere, relocate, do whatever has to be done to get that job now. It seems like a sense of entitlement that if you are loyal or wait your turn that the position will eventually open up to you. You may be waiting 10+ years and still not get hired. Nobody owes you a job, nor do they care how long you have been waiting. Candidates that are not hired in a district, usually are never hired there. Once you interview the principals talk and they may say that you were not what we are looking for. So you wind up in the candidate pool just to be overlooked year after year. My advice is simple, be ambitious and go elsewhere to make it happen.
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Couldn't agree more. Once you get passed over twice, it's time to take your talents elsewhere. Personally, I'd probably do it after getting passed over once.
 
Teacherhere said:
What I don't get is why some people are trying to get teaching jobs in very competitive markets and then hoping to improve on interviewing for NEXT YEAR. It is crazy. Go get a teaching job elsewhere, relocate, do whatever has to be done to get that job now. It seems like a sense of entitlement that if you are loyal or wait your turn that the position will eventually open up to you. You may be waiting 10+ years and still not get hired. Nobody owes you a job, nor do they care how long you have been waiting. Candidates that are not hired in a district, usually are never hired there. Once you interview the principals talk and they may say that you were not what we are looking for. So you wind up in the candidate pool just to be overlooked year after year. My advice is simple, be ambitious and go elsewhere to make it happen.
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Unless you want to teach in Indiana.

Indiana is DESPERATE.

I've seen a lot of new teachers who had been around waiting for a job for years, who would never be hired—according to those in power.

And they sure as hell have jobs this year.

The worm has turned in Indiana, largely because no one in her right mind would teach there.
 
AmyMyNamey said:
Unless you want to teach in Indiana.

Indiana is DESPERATE.

I've seen a lot of new teachers who had been around waiting for a job for years, who would never be hired—according to those in power.

And they sure as hell have jobs this year.

The worm has turned in Indiana, largely because no one in her right mind would teach there.
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There are also several states that are always looking for teachers from other states because they don't have enough local people. Virginia, Maryland, Florida, and Nevada are always up here scouting in NJ, NYC, and Philly.
 
AlwaysAttend said:
There are also several states that are always looking for teachers from other states because they don't have enough local people. Virginia, Maryland, Florida, and Nevada are always up here scouting in NJ, NYC, and Philly.
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And these state leaders are too entrenched in their own party's politics and dogma to realize the stunningly simply truth: IF THEY JUST TREATED TEACHERS WITH A MODICUM OF RESPECT, THERE WOULD NEVER BE A SHORTAGE!

Then again, perhaps these states are simply trying to move to a cheaper, privatized, for-profit education model serving the poor and working classes, and these shortages are exactly what they want—on one hand; but then, on the other hand, legislators act surprised and scramble for new legislation and recruitment practices to stem the damage they themselves caused and continue to facilitate.

Insanity is so difficult to understand because. . . it is just that: insanity.

 
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AmyMyNamey said:
And these state leaders are too entrenched in their own party's politics and dogma to realize the stunningly simply truth: IF THEY JUST TREATED TEACHERS WITH A MODICUM OF RESPECT, THERE WOULD NEVER BE A SHORTAGE!

Then again, perhaps these states are simply trying to move to a cheaper, privatized, for-profit education model serving the poor and working classes, and these shortages are exactly what they want—on one hand; but then, on the other hand, legislators act surprised and scramble for new legislation and recruitment practices to stem the damage they themselves caused and continue to facilitate.

Insanity is so difficult to understand because. . . it is just that: insanity.
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It probably also has to do with the low quality of education their young adults received going through their school system. They probably don't have a quality pool of candidates to pull from. There are very few places in NJ where you can't recieve a high quality education. Even in urban schools, the resources are there, student behavior might be in the way though.
 
AlwaysAttend said:
It probably also has to do with the low quality of education their young adults received going through their school system. They probably don't have a quality pool of candidates to pull from. There are very few places in NJ where you can't recieve a high quality education. Even in urban schools, the resources are there, student behavior might be in the way though.
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We have to be careful, because some would prefer to blame any and all deficiencies on the teachers being asked to build a rocket to Mars with duct tape and bailing wire.

Where there are problems, the root cause is ALWAYS underfunding by the state. Well, underfunding designed by lobbyists and corporate interests who control our weak-willed politicians like sock puppets.
 
AlwaysAttend said:
You simply can't let constructive feedback bother you. How do you plan to make it in public education without being questioned or challenged? (not meant as slight) That's a daily occurance and an opportunity for growth.
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It's a good thing my kids never challenge me, but are always polite and respectful, instead. I doubt I could handle any sort of conflict!
 
AmyMyNamey said:
We have to be careful, because some would prefer to blame any and all deficiencies on the teachers being asked to build a rocket to Mars with duct tape and bailing wire.

Where there are problems, the root cause is ALWAYS underfunding by the state. Well, underfunding designed by lobbyists and corporate interests who control our weak-willed politicians like sock puppets.
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Only way that can change is to decide good schools add value to a community by electing people who will significantly raise your taxes. The reason NJ schools are so good is because they are so well funded and have a well educated base of parents who will accept nothing less. Sure in some schools it ends up being like throwing money into the wind, but most get out of them what they put in.
 
AlwaysAttend said:
It probably also has to do with the low quality of education their young adults received going through their school system. They probably don't have a quality pool of candidates to pull from. There are very few places in NJ where you can't recieve a high quality education. Even in urban schools, the resources are there, student behavior might be in the way though.
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That is sad and SCARY! I watched a documentary on Camden, NJ that was horrifying! Being from the West Coast, I had NEVER imagined anything so appalling, and didn't think we had anything THAT BAD, until I visited Oakland.

The problem is NOT "low quality education," but "LOW QUALITY PARENTING." By the time we get those kids, the irreversible damage has been done. It doesn't matter what quality education you're teaching, they're not getting it! Of course, a good, caring teacher can turn this around, but it's VERY DIFFICULT; and frankly, that's not the job of a teacher, that's THE PARENTS job!

Most of these students are unable to fit-in to the school culture of learning. THEY HAVEN'T BEEN TRAINED TO BEHAVE PROPERLY--sit down, stay at your desk, be quiet and listen when the teacher is talking, etc., etc., etc.
This places a HUGE BURDEN on the teacher that she is not normally trained for, unless her major is psychology or social work.

In school districts like Oakland, and Newark, NJ, they expect A WHOLE LOT MORE out of their teachers and this may be why the turn-over rate is so high.

 
DAH said:
That is sad and SCARY! I watched a documentary on Camden, NJ that was horrifying! Being from the West Coast, I had NEVER imagined anything so appalling, and didn't think we had anything THAT BAD, until I visited Oakland.

The problem is NOT "low quality education," but "LOW QUALITY PARENTING." By the time we get those kids, the irreversible damage has been done. It doesn't matter what quality education you're teaching, they're not getting it! Of course, a good, caring teacher can turn this around, but it's VERY DIFFICULT; and frankly, that's not the job of a teacher, that's THE PARENTS job!

Most of these students are unable to fit-in to the school culture of learning. THEY HAVEN'T BEEN TRAINED TO BEHAVE PROPERLY--sit down, stay at your desk, be quiet and listen when the teacher is talking, etc., etc., etc.
This places a HUGE BURDEN on the teacher that she is not normally trained for, unless her major is psychology or social work.

In school districts like Oakland, and Newark, NJ, they expect A WHOLE LOT MORE out of their teachers and this may be why the turn-over rate is so high.
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Well you can also look at priority mistakes in these schools. A lot more should be spent on counseling services and are instead funneled into other areas. St. Benedicts Prep a private school in Newark has mandatory group counseling and individual counseling when warranted. They also have a boarding option for kids living in unsafe environments.
 
[QUOTE="AlwaysAttend, has mandatory group counseling and individual counseling when warranted. They also have a boarding option for kids living in unsafe environments.[/QUOTE]

This is great, Always, but it's also a SAD INDICTMENT against American society. WE DON"T KNOW HOW TO RAISE CHILDREN ANYMORE!
How EXPENSIVE these programs are! If PARENTS would do their job, then society would not have to spend BILLIONS OF DOLLARS on trying to correct the DAMAGE they do to their children.

I don't like to seem unsympathetic, but how UNFAIR IS THIS to everyone else when we have our own children to raise. And this problem is not small, it's ENORMOUS--a HUGE PERCENTAGE OF THE AMERICAN POPULATION from coast to coast! And nobody seems to know what to do about it. So we keep throwing MONEY and COUNSELING at the problem, and in stead of things getting better, IT GETS BIGGER and WORSE!

(Forgive me for ranting)
 
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