Hiring woes

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Anonymous Barbie, Aug 3, 2017.

  1. Anonymous Barbie

    Anonymous Barbie Rookie

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    So, a quick background: I moved to a new state, subbed in a school district for a year, made a good reputation for myself as a good sub, and was approached by the dean of students and the principal and told to apply for an open position in my field. It's a rural school district, so positions in my field are few and far between, plus this school is 5 minutes away, vs the 35-40 for the other two school districts.

    I applied, interviewed, and was told over the phone that I was not chosen for the position. I never really found out who got the position.

    I mourned over it a lot. I have 3 years of experience, a Master's degree, and live 5 minutes away. And I was approached by the staff and told to apply. I was so confused as to what happened. Still, I resolved to stay as a sub, add a few more certification areas in the meantime, and just keep my eyes open for new openings.

    So, to my surprise, I saw that the school was hiring in the subject area again. I applied quickly, and emailed the principal to tell him I applied, and thanked him for considering me for the position. He replied saying that I wouldn't be brought out for an interview, and that only new applicants would be interviewed.

    I asked what the subjects were, and it sounds like they're the exact subjects for the last position. It sounds to me like something didn't work out with the applicant they chose, so they posted the opening again.

    But wouldn't it follow that if they were really considering me, they would have just called me up and said "the position has come available, would you be interested?"

    Them posting the job again, and not asking me, really sounds like they're not even considering me. Has this happened to anyone? I just feel so terrible about myself, like wow, I really must not be as impressive as I thought, because they clearly think they can find better, and are still taking applicants. Just feeling really blue.
     
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  3. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    They are probably required to post by law but even still, I would assume if they were considering you, they would have included that in the email. You weren't asked to demo and now it sounds like you aren't being considered.
     
  4. Anonymous Barbie

    Anonymous Barbie Rookie

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    I don't know how aggressive I should be in applying. I have never been asked to demo before for jobs I have gotten, but is it too aggressive of me to email back saying "if necessary, I would love to do a demo class" ?

    I just want them to be aware of how good I really am. How much groveling is too much groveling?
     
  5. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    That would not go well. A better suggestion would be to send him an email to ask if possible to observe you during a class next year for feedback on your teaching to grow as an educator. Say next time you need a sub for multiple days, could he observe you on day 2-3 after you have built a relationship with the kids in that class.

    This email should come during school year.
     
  6. Anonymous Barbie

    Anonymous Barbie Rookie

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    I should say, he did mention that "though we are bringing only new candidates out to interview, this is not a disadvantage". I don't know how much of that I should believe, but it's something. I suppose I might still be being considered, but maybe I'm their last choice? And they're just casting their nets as much as possible?
     
  7. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    To me then, that sounds like you're still underconsideration unless they find someone better.
     
  8. Anonymous Barbie

    Anonymous Barbie Rookie

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    I hope, since it's this late in the summer, that most of the "hotshot" applicants have found positions, and that the local girl will do. I don't know, I've had interactions in the past where I told them things that they seemed to like (I have taught AP before, I taught using Chromebooks in class for 2.5 years), but somewhere along the way something happened and then I started to get the runaround, and they turned me down for the last job. I just don't know what more I can do without coming across desperate and aggressive.

    My husband mentioned that his aunt was passed over for a position before because she had a Master's degree, and they couldn't afford her at the school. The applicant they chose quit mid school year, and they had to beg her to take over. That could be coming into play here too. But honestly, all I'm doing is making myself crazy by speculating.

    He said they should be finalizing things within a week. That will leave about a week before the in-service days start.

    I'm just really missing teaching. I feel like a third string football player just begging the coach to put them in the game and give them a chance.
     
  9. mathteachertobe

    mathteachertobe Cohort

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    I would try to be patient. I would not offer to demo for this job, the P has clearly signaled he feels he has enough of a sense of you that he can compare you to other applicants and make a decision. Perhaps the masters is counting against you, but you sound well-qualified for this position, so I hope it works out for you.

    I had something similar happen, I interviewed for a job I was well qualified for. I didn't get it. That school posted another, similar job about ten days later. (In this case, it was actually a different position.) I applied, the P called and told me I didn't need to interview again, and I would know the decision by the end of the week. I was offered the job (by HR) on Thursday. I hope you have similar good luck!
     
  10. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    my school is required to post openings but they aren't required to interview new candidates if they are hiring internally. I'd hope for the best but the reality is most likely they didn't see you as their best choice for whatever reason. :( sorry.

    Are you applying elsewhere?
     
  11. mckbearcat48

    mckbearcat48 Cohort

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    I am the dumb (donkey) that keeps applying for posted jobs when there are RIF'd candidates because I really like a couple of the districts. Every job has to be posted here, and they have to interview even if the job is already spoken for...which leads to the uncomfortable position of interviewing for a job there is no chance of getting.
     
  12. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    All you can do is apply and hope. I don't know that they have to interview, they just need to post. Now they definitely go through the dog and pony show when they know they're hiring so and so's daughter. Can't make it so obvious.
     
  13. mckbearcat48

    mckbearcat48 Cohort

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    Last year, I was probably the most negative poster on here...so I call it progress.

    I hope OP gets the same "luck" many of us have had getting in for that first teaching job.
     
  14. Milsey

    Milsey Habitué

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    In life, there are cakes for the lucky few and crumbs for the rest. Definitely try to get a long-term assignment because many, unfortunately, view daily subs as mere babysitters.
     
  15. Anonymous Barbie

    Anonymous Barbie Rookie

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    Oh, but it wouldn't be my first. :( I taught 3 years out of state. I taught summers too.
     
  16. Anonymous Barbie

    Anonymous Barbie Rookie

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    I am applying elsewhere, but as previously stated, the closest districts are 35-40 minutes away, and with the harsh winters, driving those vs. the 5 minutes here is not a task lightly undertaken.

    Plus, positions in my field are so few and far between in all three of these districts, so the local one is the only one I've seen so far. People tend to move to this community and don't move out. It's very close knit. Very much nepotistic in nature. I'm hoping by adding certification areas I can diversify, and just get my foot in the door. I'm going crazy not teaching. I don't think I can stand more than a year more of subbing before I look into a career change.
     
  17. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

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    Interestingly enough the only jobs I've ever gotten are the ones where I did a demo lesson. My interviewing skills are mediocre, but when I'm put in front of the class and given the opportunity, that always impresses. If you do have an opportunity to do that, it could always help.
     
  18. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    In my area, no decent school hires without a demo unless they are desperately close to the school year, sometimes through their own fault. I remember one school I worked at did double digit demos for one job, didn't like any, then hired someone right before school started with no demo.
     
  19. AmyMyNamey

    AmyMyNamey Comrade

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    Too much competition for a relatively low-paying job.

    Regarding the OP, is there any chance one of your references hasn't been as favorable as you would expect?
     
  20. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Im my area, teaching pays very well with guerenteed longevity raises. You'll never hear me complain about teacher pay in most of NJ. My brother is an Electrical Engineer for a very established company and he doesn't make that much more than me.
     
  21. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    The 'longevity raises" are hardly keeping up with required increased contributions to pension and medical.
     
  22. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    They aren't keeping up with increased benefit costs in any industry. That's a societal issue not specific to education. There are plenty of retirees in the private sector in NJ who were promised lifetime healthcare benefits who have lost them. Teachers have not (yet). Health benefits can cost as much as about 30,000 for a family policy for one teacher. My coverage as a single adult costs approximately 11,000. My contribution is hardly even close to what the policy costs.

    Local property taxes cannot support the liabilities currently in place. There will be no pension when I retire. The sooner people realize and plan accordingly, the better off they will be.

    My problem with fellow educators is that they are suffering no more than any other industry and are in fact more protected.
     
  23. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Are you up on healthcare legislation and chapter78? Our negotiated benefits are being attacked. The state hasn't pId their contracted amount into the pension system for many years. And while it's prudent to 'plan accordingly', there are thousands of late career teachers who suddenly have found themselves with too little time to recoup what is disappearing. We run the risk of going the way of Wisconsin and Indiana. Sure, plan ahead, but dont take the stuff that's going down as a given. Fight for what was legitimately and legally negotiated on our behalf.

    Here's an example of retired teachers who lost what was promised for their ENTIRE careers until the very end of their employment:
    https://www.njea.org/njea-receives-ruling-post-retirement-medical-benefits-lawsuit/

    ETA: your healthcare contribution is based on your salary. There are plenty of single NJ teachers paying much more than you. And there are married members with families who are paying less.

    I work in one of the highest paying NJ districts. Negotiations are tough. And in our most recent contract, we were given a raise above or comparable to Neighboring districts which resulted in some teachers actually taking home less money than they did before the negotiations due to the increased 'contributions and paying more taxes on the higher salary. '
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  24. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    In the end it's a fight that can't be won. You can't squeeze blood from a stone. That's all I'm saying. The state will never pay the share required by agreement or what is necessary to cover the unfunded liability. They plan to move the lottery funds to cover it, but any economist would tell you it's just creative book keeping by moving the same money around. They'd have to cancel tons of government services that will never be canceled so that an insane amount of the budget would be consumed by education benefits.

    As for negotiations, the last time the NJEA tried to pressure the democrats in the legislature, it backfired miserably. Sweeney made them look like blackmailers which completely killed their position in the debate. There is also no actual recourse because our republican state policies would be worse. It's like trying to rob a bank with pencil in a paper bag instead of a gun.

    Sure you could attempt to strike but a judge would send us back to school immediately.

    Every state is heading in the direction of Wisconsin to some degree. We will never be a right to work state which will protect us some. I don't like it, that's just where we are.

    PS, please don't delete this post for being political. This is just a reporting of the pension debate in the state of NJ.
     
  25. Anonymous Barbie

    Anonymous Barbie Rookie

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    I have read them all, as I had to upload them myself on the application. They are all shining.

    As to the turn this post made, I find it rude that others would hijack my post about my personal concerns about being hired. There are no politics involved in my concerns. Maybe personal politics, but not actual politics.
     
  26. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Sorry. Healthy discussions sometimes take turns. Not personal. If you were teaching a topic where students showed interest in an area you hadn't anticipated, would you cut them off or encourage their interest?
     
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  27. DAH

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    [QUOTE="Anonymous Barbie .[/QUOTE]

    Barbie, do you know the principal well enough to ask him WHY you didn't get it?
    Since he suggested that you apply, ask him why you weren't chosen.
     
  28. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Barbie, do you know the principal well enough to ask him WHY you didn't get it?
    Since he suggested that you apply, ask him why you weren't chosen.
    [/QUOTE]



    Principals usually aren't so forthcoming with reasons why someone wasn't hired. The most an administrator will usually say is "we found a better fit", or "we decided on someone with more experience"...along those lines. A more productive and informative question might be "what can I do to make myself more competitive"?


    Off topic(sorry, OP), but why don't RAH's posts parse when one replies?
     
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  29. Anonymous Barbie

    Anonymous Barbie Rookie

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    Principals usually aren't so forthcoming with reasons why someone wasn't hired. The most an administrator will usually say is "we found a better fit", or "we decided on someone with more experience"...along those lines. A more productive and informative question might be "what can I do to make myself more competitive"?


    Off topic(sorry, OP), but why don't RAH's posts parse when one replies?[/QUOTE]


    I did exactly that. The last time around he said "we chose a candidate who was a better fit" or "more in line with our goals for the school system". Which is a noncommittal way of saying anything but the real reason. I asked what I could do to make myself more competitive and he said "nothing, you have the qualifications, and noted you were willing to sponsor student organizations, and we don't choose candidates based on coaching."

    (Where I am, people take coaching positions even if they aren't a teacher there. My uncle retired as a teacher and still coaches cross country in the spring as a part time gig.)

    So... I had no clue what was behind his decision, or even if it was his at all.
     
  30. Anonymous Barbie

    Anonymous Barbie Rookie

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    This isn't about healthy discussions vs unhealthy discussions. This isn't about me as a teacher (and don't even try to phrase it like that, you have no idea what I am like in the classroom). This is about me, a PERSON with a concern, a worry, looking for a little guidance, maybe even just a friendly "there, there, pat, pat". If you want to talk politics please do it on another thread. It breaks my heart to not be in the classroom for over a year now, and to open myself up to talking about my problems being hired, only to have the topic changed, really hurts. (Imagine you're having relationship problems and you come to a friend for advice only to have the subject quickly changed to politics. Sucks, right?)

    Just acknowledge there's a time and place for it and drop it. There's no need to drag my teaching into it. That's a low blow.
     
  31. Anonymous Barbie

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    As per the original post, there's still a job they're hiring for, so I don't know its status yet. And, I do have experience. I have a Master's degree, and three years of experience, including summers.
     
  32. DAH

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    [QUOTE="czacza,...Off topic(sorry, OP), but why don't RAH's posts parse when one replies?[/QUOTE]

    Czacza-----forgive me if I no longer respond to your attacks on me. I sense the vibes right through your posts, so God bless you, and you have a great life.
    Shalom
     
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  33. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    This happens on many threads. You are feeling vulnerable No one is dragging your teaching into the conversation. It was a mere tangent which has self corrected. And you might benefit to know that 'politics' is part and parcel of public education. Sorry if you felt stepped on. Good luck to you.
     
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  34. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Czacza-----forgive me if I no longer respond to your attacks on me. I sense the vibes right through your posts, so God bless you, and you have a great life.
    Shalom
    [/QUOTE]


    That wasn't an attack. I don't understand why responding to your posts presents differently than others. It's just that simple.

    See above post to compare.
     
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  35. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    That's not necessarily "a noncommittal way of saying anything but the real reason".

    So many of you on this board who can't find jobs assume that there is something wrong with you rather than accepting that sometimes you truly are great and there really was some other candidate who happens to have been a better fit for a particular school or position. I've said it repeatedly on this board, but I guess I'll just keep on saying it until I'm blue in the face: It's not always about you. Stop taking it so personally. I've been on hiring committees, and I've been faced with choosing between several fully qualified and wonderful candidates. The bottom line is that we only had one position to offer, so we had to go with the person who was the best fit for our needs at the time. It doesn't mean that there was anything wrong with the other candidates who came in second or even third place. It just means that we were forced to choose one. Someone else seemed like a better fit at the time than you.

    Truthfully, after reading all of these self-critical hiring woes posts, I have started to wonder if the posters lack of confidence and self-doubt is seeping through in these interviews, leaving the interview committee with a poor or weak impression of the candidate. My best advice to you and to all candidates going through this is to stop being critical of yourself, acknowledge what makes you a great candidate, and let that confidence shine in interviews. Then, if you still don't get a job, assume that it's because someone else was a better fit, not that you are just woefully unqualified or otherwise awful in some way.

    Also, on an unrelated note, no one hijacked your thread. You're new to this board. You don't own a thread simply because you started it. Conversations sometimes take turns. Accept it or find a new place to vent.
     
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  36. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    Czacza-----forgive me if I no longer respond to your attacks on me. I sense the vibes right through your posts, so God bless you, and you have a great life.
    Shalom
    [/QUOTE]
    DAH, the question is: Why do your posts not display correctly when someone else quotes you? Czacza wasn't attacking you. She was just asking a question we've all been wondering. It makes it difficult to read and follow a conversation. My guess is that it has something to do with your choice of fonts, but I don't know...

    Edit: See??? See how this post doesn't look right? Your whole quote isn't in the quote box. That's what we're wondering about.
     
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  37. mckbearcat48

    mckbearcat48 Cohort

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    The second and third place candidates failed to do enough to convince the interviewer that they were the best. I think it's better to be hard on yourself than to blame someone else. I am actually harder on myself now than I was last year and it has made me a lot better as a teacher. I got told several times that I was a good candidate...but good candidates get jobs. We talked last year about the same thing, and we are still on opposite sides of the fence.

    The job search sucks, and there's no two ways around that. Every rejection is one step closer to a yes...and many of us have taken a lot of steps on the journey.
     
  38. mckbearcat48

    mckbearcat48 Cohort

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    I apologize to anyone who may be offended by my last post. This is still a time I remember very well.
     
  39. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    DAH, the question is: Why do your posts not display correctly when someone else quotes you? Czacza wasn't attacking you. She was just asking a question we've all been wondering. It makes it difficult to read and follow a conversation. My guess is that it has something to do with your choice of fonts, but I don't know...

    Edit: See??? See how this post doesn't look right? Your whole quote isn't in the quote box. That's what we're wondering about.[/QUOTE]


    Exactly.
     
  40. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    Being hard on yourself as a teacher in a specific position is a lot different than being hard on yourself as a teacher searching for a job.

    I'm not advocating that you "blame" someone else. Far from it. I'm just saying that you need to accept that, often, the circumstances are out of your control. You're right that good candidates get jobs... but only when there are enough jobs to go around for all of the good candidates. When the supply outweighs the demand, some good candidates find themselves without jobs simply because another candidate was a better fit for a particular school, position, or team.
     
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  41. mckbearcat48

    mckbearcat48 Cohort

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    It's funny you mention control vs. out of your control. In baseball, we teach kids that things like weather and umpiring are not controllable and to "make it work" when the odds are stacked against the team.

    Where I mainly disagree with some posters is on the "someone was better" angle is something out of your control. Just about every person here wants to be a better teacher...if you run across a person that is more qualified, then you just have to be that much better in the interview. Especially this year, I've noticed that qualifications are a given and the "winners" are the ones that have memorable interviews (positive). I would assume that most teaching interviews are that way...everyone is qualified, and it's a matter of who makes their case for the position the best.

    I got some really awesome feedback from a July interview where the interviewer called to inform me that someone else was selected. He told me that you have improved a lot, but there are still some things you can do to make yourself more competitive. He said that I was one of 3 interviews out of a "couple hundred" applications, and that I should gather more experience for the next round of hiring the following year. I take that as this year's challenge.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
  42. DAH

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    [QUOTE="bella84,...DAH, the question is: Why do your posts not display correctly when someone else quotes you?
    Edit: See??? See how this post doesn't look right? Your whole quote isn't in the quote box. That's what we're wondering about.[/QUOTE]

    Bella, thank you for the clarification, but her attacks (on me) on other threads are numerous, and I'm done with it. I don't come to this forum to hear what SHE THINKS about what I say.
     
  43. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    Aug 9, 2017

    I think we are looking at interviews with two different mindsets. I don't go into an interview thinking that it's a competition that I need to win. I don't go into interviews thinking that I have something to lose. I go into an interview confident that I have something to offer, while attempting to feel out the school and see if they have something to offer me in return: a good fit. For me, a good fit is a place where we share similar philosophies and beliefs about education, a place where there is a good climate, and place where I'll be able to connect with the staff. I'm interviewing them as much as they are interviewing me to see if we're a good fit for one another. If I don't get a job, I don't assume that there is something wrong with me, that there is something I need to be better at to please them and "beat" some other candidate to a job offer, or that I need to work on making a better case for myself. Instead, I assume that they must have found someone else who connected with them better personally, someone who had specific experience they were looking for, or someone whose personal beliefs about education align more to the school's. I don't then go think about how I can change to better impress them or anyone else. I remain confident in myself and what I bring to the table as a teacher. I just keep on looking until I find that right school and that right position where we mesh.

    I think this because I've seen it from both sides - interviewer and interviewee. To each their own... but I just can't imagine interviewing for teaching jobs with the competitive "I've got something to lose" mindset. I'm much more comfortable with the "Hey, here's who I am. Take it if I'm right for you or leave it if I'm not." approach.
     

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