Hiring rate women vs men...

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Mrs. Rader, Jul 8, 2014.

  1. Mrs. Rader

    Mrs. Rader Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2014
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jul 8, 2014

    I would like to start off by saying we do need more male teachers in the elementary field (at least in my area). This is only meant to be a discussion post. What is the job search like for men vs women? Do men find jobs in the education field more quickly? Do schools lean more towards hiring a male candidate vs a female?

    I am trying to word this in a way that does not sound offensive. That is not my intention at all! I am only genuinely curious as to what others have experienced or observed.
     
  2.  
  3. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    5,770
    Likes Received:
    1,002

    Jul 8, 2014

    I think the playing field is more even in the secondary grades, with male teachers perhaps even being more desirable. But many parents seem uncomfortable with a male elementary school teacher.
     
  4. teacherintexas

    teacherintexas Maven

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    5,279
    Likes Received:
    748

    Jul 9, 2014

    Some of our most requested teachers in the elementary are the males. We have a large population of missing father figures so I think that makes a difference.
     
  5. giraffe326

    giraffe326 Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    7,075
    Likes Received:
    15

    Jul 9, 2014

    I think they can have an edge at times, but they will pick the top candidate regardless of gender. The guy that interviewed behind me at my current job was male. I was chosen.
     
  6. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2010
    Messages:
    3,151
    Likes Received:
    626

    Jul 9, 2014

    Most principals I have met are deeply concerned about getting the best candidate regardless of gender. I have been on interview teams and I haven't seen a P who made their decision based on gender. Although, I once met a male administrator who was a male chauvinist who hired a principal just because he was male. It make me sick.
     
  7. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,497
    Likes Received:
    2,534

    Jul 9, 2014

    I would hope that hiring panels are selecting the best candidate regardless of gender.
     
  8. Nash

    Nash Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jul 9, 2014

    Although Principals may be very fair and care only about the best applicant for the job, you need to remember.......Principals won't even see the applicants before the HR people are done eliminating potential applicants.

    Now do I feel HR people that likely to be biased? Yes. Exceptionally bias in my experience.
     
  9. LMichele

    LMichele Cohort

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2011
    Messages:
    512
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jul 9, 2014

    Agreed. We hired about 10 new teachers this year, all of them being female. We tried really, really hard to get at least one male, but like giraffe said, we picked the top candidates who just all happened to be female.
     
  10. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    4,330
    Likes Received:
    572

    Jul 9, 2014

    That depends upon your district's hiring practices. Sometimes it is the principal that gets the resume first and sends his recommendation to HR afterward.
     
  11. bandnerdtx

    bandnerdtx Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    3,506
    Likes Received:
    12

    Jul 9, 2014

    That's the way my district works, too.

    My school is so lopsided-- we only have 2 male teachers on a staff of 17, but my prinicipal would LOVE it if we had more. The truth is, though, that she picks the best candidate for our students, and overwhelmingly so far, they happen to be female. I know she's not biased towards women -- she actively seeks out male candidates, but she goes with who she feels will work best on our campus with our kids.
     
  12. Mrs. Rader

    Mrs. Rader Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2014
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jul 9, 2014

    It is encouraging to hear that so many principals out there are seeking the best candidate for their students! :) I am located in an extremely rural area. A principal told me specifically that in my area principals and a select group of people within each school decide who gets interviewed - and ultimately who gets recommended to the superintendent. 99% of the time who a principal recommends gets the job. It is very interesting to me how hiring practices differ from area to area.

    Now, for the record - all principals in my district are male. Honestly, 80% of our administration is male. I am not saying for sure there is any bias going on, but there could be I suppose. It's a little fishy to me.

    One situation in particular made me ask this question. A male teaching candidate I met during course work is so seeking jobs at the same time I am. He graduated a year later than I did. We were very close friends. I knew his wife from childhood. So, we kept in touch and I helped him with his course work if ever he needed anything.

    We have the same qualifications. I was able to attend more professional development and also was able to substitute a full year. In the next hiring season, he was hired fresh out of college by my current school. We both received interviews. I was very happy for him and continued my job search. I received an interview at a nearby district. I took it. I was not selected.

    Two weeks later, my college friend tells me he was selected for the position for which I also interviewed at the nearby district. I was confused, considering he had already accepted his previous job offer. In a stroke of irony, the principal of my current school called and asked if I was still interested in the job my friend had accepted first. I told her that I was and was hired on the spot. Later, she admitted that she hired him first due to the number of male students in the classroom.

    This hiring season - He was hired again in my local district after accepting another year at his current school. He must not have been contracted for another year. It seems like we keep chasing each other around the mulberry bush! lol

    I won't lie, this has left me a little disappointed. I just thought I would share this experience. :) I thought it was a little unique. I am very happy for my friend. Use whatever advantage you may have, I suppose!
     
  13. greendream

    greendream Cohort

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2011
    Messages:
    609
    Likes Received:
    139

    Jul 9, 2014

    As a male, I would hate to see a less qualified male hired for an elementary school position over a more qualified female just because of demographics.

    But it cuts both ways. I would also hate to see females hired over more qualified males just because they are underrepresented in a certain field, like engineering for example.
     
  14. Mrs. Rader

    Mrs. Rader Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2014
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jul 9, 2014

    That's very true, greendream! It should be based only on who is the best candidate for the position. He very well could have outmatched me at the interviews. I have made my fair share of mistakes when the door to the conference room closes! :) He is a great person. It was just a very interesting situation to say the least.

    I only want to see if others had similar stories or opinions on the matter.
     
  15. YoungTeacherGuy

    YoungTeacherGuy Phenom

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Messages:
    4,407
    Likes Received:
    1,418

    Jul 9, 2014

    Really? That hasn't been my experience whatsoever.

    In fact, we have 2 male teachers who comprise our staff of 30. When I was finalizing class lists, I noticed that 90% of parent requests were for our two male teachers.

    When on an interview panel, I don't care what gender the candidate is. I always go with who the best fit will be for my site.
     
  16. Mrs. Rader

    Mrs. Rader Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2014
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jul 9, 2014

    That's good to hear! :)

    I don't know of anyone who would be uncomfortable with their child being placed with a male teacher. I don't believe that would be much of an issue.

    We do need more males interested in the elementary level. There seem to be so few at the schools I have experience with. It seems like the majority of men in my area go into high school or administration.
     
  17. Go Blue!

    Go Blue! Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,949
    Likes Received:
    17

    Jul 9, 2014

    My Admin (6-12 school) is always looking to hire more males, specifically Black males (if qualified). They think our students (99% Black) could benefit from building relationships with positive (Black) males.

    I also wish me had more (Black) male teachers at my school.
     
  18. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    4,330
    Likes Received:
    572

    Jul 9, 2014

    I know people that would be uncomfortable with a kindergarten or first grade teacher. But not so much of an issue when the kids get older.

    I'm not saying they would fight to get their kids out of those classes, just would prefer a female over a male with the really young ones.
     
  19. monsieurteacher

    monsieurteacher Aficionado

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2005
    Messages:
    3,231
    Likes Received:
    66

    Jul 9, 2014

    Our most requested teacher is a male who teaches kindergarten.
     
  20. teacher06

    teacher06 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2014
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jul 9, 2014

    Hiii guys, I am new to this!! Speaking of hiring, i have a question regarding interview. When you go on interviews and they ask you how much salary you expect? What is your answer? I always choke up on this. I am a NYC certified elementary teacher with just one year of experience…Thanks :)
     
  21. Jerseygirlteach

    Jerseygirlteach Groupie

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,439
    Likes Received:
    2

    Jul 9, 2014


    Does your admin say outright that they have a gender and/or racial preference? How is that legal?
     
  22. Mrs. Rader

    Mrs. Rader Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2014
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jul 9, 2014

    I have never been asked this in an interview, but I have discussed salary when interviewing at private schools. Often times private schools aren't required to advertise their pay scale.

    I would do my research on the district for which I was interviewing. Find out what their base salary is, and base your answer on that information. For me, I would search for a Rank III salary. I wish I could be more helpful. :)
     
  23. Mrs. Rader

    Mrs. Rader Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2014
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jul 9, 2014

    They are not supposed to have a preference; however, administrators MIGHT favor one group or another based on their demographic. Not publicly! But there is a chance it happens. For example, some schools may only employ 2 men out of their 30 teachers. The administration may look more fondly to men in that case.

    In Go Blue's case, her school feels that they need more qualified black males in the area. The administration may be inclined to look more fondly at those candidates. Does that make sense? :unsure: That's how I see it anyway, and why I posted this thread in the first place. :)
     
  24. teacher06

    teacher06 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2014
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jul 9, 2014

    You've been extremely helpful, thank you for your information. I will do the research ;)
     
  25. Go Blue!

    Go Blue! Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,949
    Likes Received:
    17

    Jul 9, 2014

    She doesn't say that she's only looking for Black male teachers, but she has expressed that she wanted to add some to our staff. Trust me, if you look at staff demographics in my district, Black males are most definitely NOT being hired at an unfair rate. I would argue that the majority of our teachers are white females despite the district being like 90% Black.

    Honestly, in all three schools I have worked at in my district; I have heard Admin - female and male - say they wished they had more Black male teachers for various reasons. Some schools hire Black males as athletic coaches and hall monitors, but if they don't have a degree/certification they can't teach in the classroom which is where I think they are needed most.
     
  26. Go Blue!

    Go Blue! Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,949
    Likes Received:
    17

    Jul 9, 2014

    I think you meant me, not Jerseygirlteach.

    I don't want to get too much into my reasons, but I will say that as a Black female; I really, really, really wish we had more Black males working with and interacting with our kids.

    I could go on for days about this, but I'll leave it there.
     
  27. Mrs. Rader

    Mrs. Rader Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2014
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jul 9, 2014

    Yes I did. :) I fixed it.

    Each area has different needs, I think. Strong, qualified male figures for students in my area would be very beneficial as well. Men in my area do not usually seek jobs in education, when they do it is for high school level.

    Let me emphasize qualified, for a moment. I believe that experience and the level of your ability should get you hired, regardless of demographic need. If that makes any sense...
     
  28. Bunnie

    Bunnie Devotee

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,136
    Likes Received:
    165

    Jul 9, 2014

    I completely understand what you mean. At the first school I worked at over 80% of the staff was Black Females, and we only had 2 Black male teachers (one was a dean) and the P and Ap were both black. It was an inner city school with the majority of the students being either Black or Hispanic.

    I'll never forget something one of the black male teachers told me. He said the students look at you and you already have their respect because you are one of them. (I'm Hispanic) he said but the white teachers here? They struggle, they always struggle because the majority of kids are always taught not to respect white people. So white teachers never last here.
     
  29. Mr. Radiohead

    Mr. Radiohead Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2011
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jul 9, 2014

    As a male elementary school teacher I can tell you that I felt I had an advantage over female candidates when interviewing for jobs. Why? Well we are unique- it's a female dominated market. I applied to many, interviewed for a few, and was hired at my current spot. Tough to say if I really did have any true advantage. No one rolled out the red carpet and threw a "male" party for me. I feel I was hired by my admin because of my background, personality, and qualifications- if me being male was a cherry on top for them- so be it.

    My :2cents:

    In my 3 years of being a 5th grade teacher I have heard of one parent vocally say they didn't want their daughter in a male teacher's room- I think this had to do with the girl having a tough year with a teacher who happened to be male. My favorite teacher ever was my 1st grade teacher- a male, he is the reason I teach today.
     
  30. Jerseygirlteach

    Jerseygirlteach Groupie

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,439
    Likes Received:
    2

    Jul 9, 2014


    You could arguably be making the case that the school needs to hire more white teachers since the students need to learn to respect people of all races.
     
  31. Jerseygirlteach

    Jerseygirlteach Groupie

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,439
    Likes Received:
    2

    Jul 9, 2014

    I understand what you're saying; I do. I'm just not comfortable with someone getting preferential treatment for that reason, because it can go both ways.
     
  32. Bunnie

    Bunnie Devotee

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,136
    Likes Received:
    165

    Jul 9, 2014

    Absolutely! I believe that is very important for sure.

    On a side note I grew up never meeting a white person, teachers included, until I was in middle school. I grew up in a very Hispanic neighborhood. I never treated anyone differently, mostly I was fascinated with people of different races when I moved to a multicultural neighborhood.
     
  33. Mrs. Rader

    Mrs. Rader Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2014
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jul 9, 2014

    I had a similar experience. We are so rural, we had very few people moving to the area. So... not many new faces came to our little town. We were lucky to have a few exchange students in high school. I was always fascinated with other cultures and races. I really wanted to meet different people with different traditions. I think that's why I loved college as much as I did. :) So many awesome people to meet!
     
  34. jwteacher

    jwteacher Cohort

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
    569
    Likes Received:
    3

    Jul 9, 2014

    I don't feel I ever had an advantage in the interviews either. I've worked in several elementary schools, and being one of two elementary male teachers in a staff of 70 or 100 teachers, I have always felt ostracized by my females colleagues. (There was nothing more irritating than my co-workers only coming to me when they wanted something and initiated the conversation with a weak attempt at small talk.)

    Fortunately, I got away from the sexism and moved to high school. The experience so far has been better. :)
     
  35. waterfall

    waterfall Maven

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    5,970
    Likes Received:
    840

    Jul 9, 2014

    I would say that in my experience male elementary teachers are actively recruited, just because they are so rare. I've actually been to job fairs where schools will literally post, "We are looking for minority candidates and male elementary teachers." With secondary being more balanced, I don't see males having an advantage there. Like many others said, my (female) principal actively searches for good male teaching candidates, but will hire the best person for the job. In a school of about 30 teachers, our only male is the PE teacher. The PE teachers always jokingly asks the principal if she would please hire another man. She says that she tries, but every time she interviews them they're unqualified and she will not put them in our school. So someone wouldn't get a job in my school just based on being a male candidate, but I think it would absolutely give them an edge, and would be a deciding factor in choosing them over other equally qualified candidates.
     
  36. John Lee

    John Lee Groupie

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    1,476
    Likes Received:
    58

    Jul 10, 2014

    Teachers make too much about "the best candidate". Best candidate to me, simply means fit. It is how a guy or girl can fit in, work as a team, and work amongst the community. In that regard, I think I (personally) am a top-notch candidate.

    I think when people think "best candidate" though, they don't look at those things. There are many very experienced, highly credentialed and certified teachers out there now, who would be a terrible fit at more places than not--for a variety of reasons. But people in education, give too much credence to "official" qualifications like GPA or CELDT or ESL or ESP or CIA.

    As it relates to this thread, it goes back to fit. Feel the person (guy) out. If they can fit in and do a good job, they are as qualified as the 4.0 GPA person with the fancy business suit and portfolio.
     
  37. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2010
    Messages:
    3,151
    Likes Received:
    626

    Jul 10, 2014

    John Lee, you make an excellent point. I think many candidates make a large deal out of their GPAs and other "official" qualifications. They then feel slighted when they have so much difficulty getting a job. They feel they must have been overlooked because they are not a man or not a minority.

    Having been on numerous interview teams, it doesn't matter much what your GPA or other "official" qualifications you have. If you don't interview well or don't interview in a way that the school feels you are a good fit, you will almost never get hired by that school. This is regardless of the "official qualifications" (such as high GPA) you have.
     
  38. YoungTeacherGuy

    YoungTeacherGuy Phenom

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Messages:
    4,407
    Likes Received:
    1,418

    Jul 10, 2014

    My GPA has never come up in an interview (granted, I only interviewed for one teaching position and was immediately extended a job offer). I graduated Summa Cum Laude (3.92 GPA) and would've loved sharing that, but no one ever asked.

    I do know that when I'm on an interview panel, I'm provided copies of their letters of rec, resume, & letter of intent. That's pretty much all I want to deal with, anyway (paperwork-wise, that is).
     
  39. John Lee

    John Lee Groupie

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    1,476
    Likes Received:
    58

    Jul 11, 2014

    I just used GPA as an example of the type of "qualifications" that tend to get overplayed. Probably a poor example, since I've never been asked about my GPA.

    I actually think the whole interview process is unnecessary in the education environment. I mean, I know about following requirements as it relates to legal responsibilities, etc. But I'm talking simply about knowing who is a good candidate for a job. In the Job Seeker forum here, there are plenty of folks who told about their experience at a school, and losing out in an interview process. Being able to interview well, is a skill. As I said, there are plenty of teachers who will shine in that light--and who will come in and clash (e.g. be a poor personality fit) on a school team.
     

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. sevenplus,
  2. Caesar753,
  3. TeacherWhoRuns,
  4. Ima Teacher,
  5. CDOR79
Total: 274 (members: 9, guests: 247, robots: 18)
test