Hi, I'm new here, so tell me, why is it so difficult to get a job?

Discussion in 'Job Seekers' started by SPEDteach1017, Jul 15, 2013.

  1. SPEDteach1017

    SPEDteach1017 Rookie

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    Jul 15, 2013

    Seriously!

    Hello all! I have been reading posts here for a few months now, and finally registered! I have loved reading all of the various threads (especially Giraffe!), and wanted to share my experiences...

    So here it goes (warning: this may be a long story!)...
    I am a late bloomer to teaching, but I started as a TA in SPED, and was inspired to teach based on those experiences! After working as a TA for 3 years, it was time to go for it and get my teaching degree. I graduated in December 2010, and had a difficult time finding a job right out of college, so I worked as a TA at one of the schools I co-taught at for the last few months of the school year.

    Fast forward to the following school year, I found a job (finally!) :haha::haha: in late Aug. in an urban, high poverty area. The school year to follow was EXTREMELY difficult and stressful:(. I mean I knew it wouldn't be a cake walk, but I didn't expect this at all! I lost 20 pounds over the course of the school year and started having a lot of anxiety. I had no supports, no resources, the teachers were cold and distant, and to top it all off, the principal hated me! She would come in my classroom and yell at me in front of my students, and she gave me terrible evaluations, which came as a complete shock to me based on my teaching :confused: ! I had 6th and 7th graders, all boys, with severe BD/ED. They were fighting all the time, and I was blamed, but when I'd send students to the office after all my behavior strategies were exhausted, nothing was done. Somehow, the principal recommended me for renewal in the primary setting (different school), and I was relieved and excited for a fresh start. :wow::thanks:

    Primary year: Yay! Started out promising. I had 1st, 2nd and 3rd graders (cross cat). The fellow primary teachers were awesome, and we all clicked! The district fired all the principals from the previous year including the nightmare one I had, so in meeting the new principal, I was hopeful. She seemed professional and fair.

    First evaluation (Oct 2012): Good! Not perfect, but good, and I was happy! I'm new and still learning, so I didn't expect much more.
    Second evaluation (Jan 2013): Not good, in fact, significantly worse! :eek: My eyes immediately went to the spot on the page that says whether my contract will be renewed... it read, "non-renewal of contract!" I cried on the spot! What happened? Well I guess I'll never truly know. I was doing everything I was doing at the time of the first eval even better! This part is super long, so I won't go into it, but lets just say, there was A LOT of questioning on my part to the P, and her answers just didn't add up. I asked why none of these things were brought up or addressed prior to my 2nd eval, she just said, "oh, that's something I need to work on." :banghead: To make matters worse, she kept putting off my post eval meeting (red flag), and it didn't happen for 3 weeks after my eval!!! **This is where I learn that teaching is totally POLITICAL!

    So here I am, jobless for next school year, and let go in an unjust manner. Just went on my 6th interview today (I have interviewed in 3 different districts). One interview was for ESY, which I got and am doing now. I applied for 2 other positions in the same district, felt I did very well, but didn't get either. :( Come to find out that my competition for the 2 positions works ESY also. One is a fresh college grad, the other hadn't taught in 2 years. What is their secret??? I am thinking it's nepotism. It is a great district in an awesome neighborhood, and it's an affluent area, so I'm sure many people applied and wanted those jobs as well.

    My interview today was hard to read... and I really want it! They are a school district in apple's "distinguished program," which means all students and teachers have an iPad and Macbook, polar opposite of the last district I taught in! My interview didn't occur on an ideal day though... today was my first day with the ESY kids (crazy!), and I had to leave right after school, and it happened to be raining really hard (no umbrella!). My clothes were damp, and my hair frizzed up! Annoying.

    Thoughts? Advice? Anyone with similar experiences?

    Sorry so long! I had a lot pent up! Please send your positive thoughts and energy to me! I need it!
     
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  3. Rainbowbird

    Rainbowbird Groupie

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    Jul 15, 2013

    I'm so sorry. It sounds like you got a very raw deal. The fact that you are getting interviews is good. I have not been in your situation but it is a tough market for anyone to be in. Many of us who've never had a problem landing a job before are having trouble. There are just too many applicants out there and not enough jobs. Hopefully someone with experience with your issue will chime in. You must have good references to be getting the interviews. Good luck!
     
  4. SPEDteach1017

    SPEDteach1017 Rookie

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    thanks for your response! Honestly, I don't think anyone who has called me for an interview has checked my references (by calling them, at least). I have applied for a lot of jobs, so maybe it's the luck of the draw.
    Do you think I am doomed because of my past?
     
  5. giraffe326

    giraffe326 Virtuoso

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    Jul 15, 2013

    Keep trying :) There is not much else you can do but put 110% into your search!

    Best of luck! (And hopefully you hear positive news about today's interview!)
     
  6. Rainbowbird

    Rainbowbird Groupie

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    Jul 15, 2013

    I thought maybe you were submitting paper references. I always have to do that around here.

    I don't think you are doomed. I think non renewal is becoming more and more common and principals are wise to the fact that it is not always done fairly. Has it come up in your interviews?
     
  7. SPEDteach1017

    SPEDteach1017 Rookie

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    Thanks Giraffe!

    Nothing about my last position has come up! Maybe principals just want to make their own judgments... :confused: I have to say, that part is a relief, because how would I even explain it w/o sounding negative toward the principal/district, and I don't want to do that!
     
  8. Rainbowbird

    Rainbowbird Groupie

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    Maybe someone with more experience in this area will offer advice on how to handle that. I think I would be honest and say that you honestly don't know why it happened, because you were actually improving and were not given feedback in a timely manner. ? :dizzy:
     
  9. SPEDteach1017

    SPEDteach1017 Rookie

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    Thanks for the advice, Rainbowbird. I do believe honesty is best, I still worry that it will be frowned upon by other districts though.
     
  10. Global Teacher

    Global Teacher Companion

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    Jul 16, 2013

    1. School systems are generally very corrupt, and nepotism often determines who gets hired.

    It is still possible to get jobs, but often it takes an in person follow-up or at least a phone call. Principals will be more comfortable hiring someone they know, and personal a follow-up can substitute for a real connection

    2. Principals have all the power and can ruin one's teaching career with a non-renewal and a bad reference.

    It will be very difficult for you tell if you are being sabotaged because of your first teaching experience, because the job market is so competitive, and you're likely to be turned down for some jobs regardless. It might be a good idea to contact your former principal to see if you can possibly convince her to give you a better reference.

    In order to avoid problems like this in the future, I find it is a good idea to speak regularly with your principal. Don't be a stranger who treats your principal as though there is a large barrier between the two of you, as some teachers do. Also don't try to be artificially friendly either.

    If you're in the habit of communicating regularly with your principal, you should naturally understand better what is expected of you. You'll also be more likely to have any problems addressed with a friendly discussion rather than with a negative review.
     
  11. Geauxtee

    Geauxtee Comrade

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    Jul 16, 2013


    I'm not sure where you are, but it's against the law in a lot of states to give and out right bad reference. I thought the most they can say is, "Yes, Jane Smith was a 4th grade teacher here from 2012-2013." I think they can get into murky water with a bad reference because it can be construed as slander.
     
  12. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    Jul 16, 2013

    Perhaps it's for the best you're out of that district. Sounds rather toxic on the whole. Hoping for the best for you with this interview!
     
  13. DKM

    DKM Rookie

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    Jul 16, 2013

    Getting recommended for non-renewal will really put a bad mark against you UNLESS you resigned at a proper time for personal reason. Many schools will not touch a teacher with a 10 foot pole if you got recommended for non-renewal.

    I got it twice. The first one was from a principal who was very political and was looking for every excuse to get rid of staff. She caused 47 teachers to quit OR transfer. She ended up having the worst reputation as a principal for the entire school county this year. Unfortunately because I did not have tenure to transfer out... I had to resign. The last one was not based on performance... but because the principal was asked to cut her staff based on school budget cuts and I was easiest to cut since I was the last teacher hired. However, I have still have been able to gain interviews.

    Worse comes to worse... you may end up back subbing. I wish you luck.
     
  14. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Jul 16, 2013

    Sounds like your first job gave you a second chance after a tough year but it didn't work out for you...the first year may have colored your P's observations/ reviews...Now a non renewal can be problematic when job seeking.
    Regardless of weather, hair frizzies, humidity level, it's your job to shine on an interview...sell yourself. No excuses. You may be a bit gun shy from your experiences thus far. Do some reflection on those situations...what did you learn, what are some area where you can improve, what are the things you can highlight as your strengths?

    Good luck to you.
     
  15. Global Teacher

    Global Teacher Companion

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    Legally, this is true. But in practice there is nothing stopping one principal from talking to another principal "off the record."

    Of course the reason for not continuing with a teacher's application, under these circumstances, will be something other than the bad reference. And there is very little recourse for the teacher.
     
  16. katrinkakat

    katrinkakat Connoisseur

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    Jul 17, 2013

    Don't worry about your non renewal. Often districts do it for political reasons and usually people find their next position a better fit. Search these threads for non renewal, you will see many happy endings, including mine!
     
  17. tonysam

    tonysam Comrade

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    Please follow this advice. I only hope your non-renewal isn't a career killer. It usually is if the non-renewal is for alleged "performance issues." Moving a great distance may help in salvaging what career you have left.

    "Burn and churn" is the operative word in education now. This is a truly dangerous field to get into because principals have all of the power, and you have none, and they can ruin you with the stroke of a pen. They don't have to to tell the truth, either. I know from experience, and I am probably much older. Five years and counting, and I can't get anything other than substituting, not even classified work that's part-time, 10 bucks an hour, and no benefits.

    It is getting MUCH worse now with all of the "reforms" taking place in education. Teachers are being thrown out for the most petty reasons because districts can hire more cheap labor and use those poor teachers up before they ever get "tenure," or, more important, retirement vesting.

    Your biggest problem is with the disclosure questions on job applications. A principal normally doesn't screen the applications initially; this is usually HR or a hiring committee. You check off "yes," on any question that asks if you were non-renewed or were refused continued employment, and trust me, it will be set aside.

    You appear to be in a high-need area, and that may be why you are getting interviews at all.
     
  18. tonysam

    tonysam Comrade

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    Jul 17, 2013

    Many districts require you send confidential reference forms for the last principal or other references to sign and comment. Principals can say whatever they want.

    Even more important, districts don't even have to give a bad reference to ruin a teacher's chances. A "do not rehire" designation is all it takes.
     
  19. tonysam

    tonysam Comrade

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    A RIF isn't a non-renewal. It's a layoff.

    A non-renewed, meaning fired, teacher will have to start all over from scratch (subbing in another district) or go into another line of work.
     
  20. Rainbowbird

    Rainbowbird Groupie

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    Jul 18, 2013

    This is so true. I know some will jump all over Tony for being "negative" but you know what, it is the reality in many places. If you havent experienced this type of thing, you're very lucky, but such employment practices will come to pass in most places, I fear.

    We are seeing this in my state. We have an overabundance of qualified applicants in my area (in a 10 mile radius from my home there are two universities with fantastic teacher Ed programs) but several of the local districts are contracting out with TFA. Gee, I wonder why? :whistle: They are treating their tenured teachers horribly, moving them around, making them switch grades, bad evaluations, telling them they have to reapply for their own jobs in June! Anything to get them to leave.

    My neighbor taught in one of these districts for 20 years. A fantastic teacher and person. She was able to escape before they found a reason to fire her by getting hired in another district that values experience and was willing to pay for it. She now makes 10k more so she had the last laugh.

    Not to derail this thread, OP. I think you can do it. Make sure your references will back you up. Apply everywhere and be willing to start over in a grade or school that might not be your first choice. Project energy, enthusiasm, and passion in your interview. Make as many contacts as you can. Knowing someone inside who can vouch for your character and work ethic can help to cancel out the non-renewal.
     
  21. ktmiller222

    ktmiller222 Cohort

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    Jul 18, 2013

    It's hard to say what districts actually contact references or not. But in your interview, talk about the positives of your TA experiences, and challenges of teaching in the Urban school, as well as your learning experiences from it.
    Good luck!
     
  22. waterfall

    waterfall Maven

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    Jul 18, 2013

    Were you part of a union? If you think your previous principal is giving you a bad reference, I would contact them. We had this issue in my school last year. The Principal was truly an evil person. She non-renewed people at whim and was giving them terrible references. Two people had received verbal offers that were rescinded once they talked to our principal. Since they were able to prove that it was her that cost them the job, they were able to send some sort of legal letter to her from the lawyer basically telling her that she wasn't allowed to say anything about them when asked. It worked! The district had been in several lawsuits already and basically told her to quit causing trouble. Every person that was non-renewed this year found another job (about 15 people). I was renewed, but I truly believe she wanted to non-renew me but was unable to due to how good my data was. I lucked upon a school that didn't call her and got a new job this year.

    As far as applications go, I do think the questions about non-renewal are there for weed out purposes. I know a lot of people that were non-renewed in my building answered "no" to those because they resigned (even though there is a question that asks if you've resigned in lieu of non-renewal). They seemingly didn't get caught, but that would make me very nervous.
     
  23. AdamnJakesMommy

    AdamnJakesMommy Habitué

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    Jul 18, 2013

    Just out of curiosity, what if someone were non-renewed because the position was cut entirely? I imagine that teachers who have been laid off were done so involuntarily...???
     
  24. waterfall

    waterfall Maven

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    That wasn't the case for any of them. Around here a budget-cut position is considered a RIF (reduction in force) and not a non-renewal. They are two completely different things. A non-renewal is being let go because the school specifically didn't want you in that position. A person who was RIF'd wouldn't have to check the "yes" box because they weren't non-renewed.
     
  25. AdamnJakesMommy

    AdamnJakesMommy Habitué

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    Gotcha, I didn't know if that made that distinction when letting someone go.
     
  26. Emily Bronte

    Emily Bronte Groupie

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    Jul 19, 2013

    I know of a fellow teacher who was non-renewed and finally stopped putting non-renewed on applications, although that teacher did resign when given the opportunity. I am not sure what the best course of action is in this case.
     
  27. tonysam

    tonysam Comrade

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    Actually, it's entirely legal for a principal to give a bad reference if what that principal is saying is "true." Of course, since there is no way of knowing what the principal has said to another employer, a teacher is in the soup.

    All a district needs to do, however, is label you as a "do not rehire," and that will be the end of your career, at least for a time.
     
  28. SPEDteach1017

    SPEDteach1017 Rookie

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    I haven't checked my thread in days... and I would like to thank everyone for their responses. :)

    It was nice to see some positive responses, and hard to see many negative responses, such as, non-renewal is a career killer. Yikes!:eek:hmy:

    I'm realistic, I don't just want flowery, positive advice, BUT, I will not believe this is the end of my career. My heart lies in teaching. I will continue to think positively.

    I think a lot of districts know how it goes in the world of evaluations and contracts, that being said, I'm not exactly advertising my non-renewal.

    I did go to my union when all of this went down, they basically said that my only recourse was to file a grievance against the principal for the contractual time-line not being followed. Since I was non-tenure, they said that she could say anything she wanted, and I couldn't do anything about it. Nice. Mind you, I had to continue working there with this knowledge for the next 3 1/2 months! :(

    I think anyone who saw my first and second evaluations and compared them would see a red flag and wonder what this P was thinking. My second eval literally looked as if she closed her eyes and checked boxes, no comments, nothing. Come on, if this was really based on my performance, wouldn't a decent P come to me in between evals to provide this pertinent feedback?! Not just sit back and tell me nothing? It was a trap.

    I have thought about (and still do) writing the superintendent about this whole incident, but don't know how to write it, or what will happen as a result of it.

    As far as interviews go, I have yet to hear from Monday's interview, and have another interview (after having a phone interview) on Wednesday at a private school. Wish me luck!
     
  29. SPEDteach1017

    SPEDteach1017 Rookie

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    I would also like to clarify: So, if I resigned once I found out my P was non-renewing me, I would be better off? How would that change anything?
     
  30. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    This depends entirely on where you're at, your history, your content area, and probably a hundred other factors as well.

    Non-renewals can sometimes be seen as "this teacher was too incompetent to remain employable, so we head to let him go". That's certainly a lot worse than "this teacher chose to leave for a different opportunity elsewhere". Sometimes non-renewals are much more neutral and not "career-killers". There are too many variables to make blanket statements.
     
  31. SPEDteach1017

    SPEDteach1017 Rookie

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    Thanks for this, Caesar. You are right, it's not so "open and shut" as some people are making it.
     
  32. anewstart101

    anewstart101 Cohort

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    I was non-renewed my first year teaching. I started out as a long term sub then moved into a permanent position.

    I started in November and was told in January right after we came back. I had no observations nothing. . .

    at the time non-renewal was devastating personally and I was told it was a career killer. . .

    Four years later I am teaching I added some credentials and worked at my current place for 3 years. I left for a new position. I am worried about non-renewal but I got a position till June and I am going to do the best I can and learn.

    There is life after non-renewal and I have grown as a teacher and in my career.

    I can say it was a blessing in disguise.

    As I start this new adventure I am nervous but I will take what I have in front of me and see where it goes.

    Stephanie
     
  33. SPEDteach1017

    SPEDteach1017 Rookie

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    Stephanie,

    Thank you for your response! I am happy to hear from someone with first hand knowledge of being non-renewed!

    I too feel this is a blessing in disguise, but seeing as I do not have a job yet, I am still freaked out!

    A few questions for you...
    How soon after the nonrenewal did you obtain your next job, 1 full year?
    Did your new employer know or ask about the non-renewal?

    Thanks again for the insight! :):thanks:
     
  34. anewstart101

    anewstart101 Cohort

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    I took the time to go back to school to add my moderate to severe credential. That took up fall semester. After I added my mod-severe to my mild moderate I finished in 12/09. By 2/2010 I had two job offers. One was full and one was part time. I took the part time job. Then in the beginning of 2010/11 school year I got a full time job and was there for three years.

    No one ever asked me about my non-renewal. I know I was non-renewed since my position was eliminated. I know districts around me who non-renew so people don't get tenure.

    If I am asked why is left I tell them it was to add my moderate to severe credential which is the truth when it comes down to it.

    My new job is more a moderate job. . .than a severe job and I am good with that.

    I am a bit nervous with my new job but I am going to do my best and we shall see what happens but I am positive.
     
  35. SPEDteach1017

    SPEDteach1017 Rookie

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    Thanks for the info Stephanie! :thumb:
     
  36. DKM

    DKM Rookie

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    http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2010/05/05/non-renewals-the-scarlet-letter-of-teaching/ read this.

    School systems are finding out that principals are under pressure to write poor or mediocre evaluations to recommend "non-renewal" for budget purposes.This happened to me and my last school has not hired ANY new people. My position was given to another teacher who is expected to teach two grade levels with larger class sizes instead of one and smaller sizes because of budget.

    I had a mediocre evaluation for a new teacher, which isn't bad since I was hired at the last minute and had to teach in a state with different standards I wasn't familiar with. In fact several others teachers at my last school were also recommended for "non-renewal" all for the sake of budget cuts. Oh yea and I found out last week that principal was busted for doing something illegal when it came to handling/managing staff... she's no longer a principal with that school system, but it sucks I STILL got cut by a "non-renewal".

    It's bull... I get what you're saying... but if you are RIF you get to collect unemployment benefits. School systems don't want to pay out unemployment benefit no thanks to the economy, so they non-renewal teachers and find whatever they can to get rid of them. I have seen GOOD teachers recommended for non-renewal and get screwed by their principals. there are some political school systems you have to watch for or they will mess up your career.
     
  37. Rainbowbird

    Rainbowbird Groupie

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    I read the link and a response to the article noted that if you are forced to resign, document everything and present when you file for unemployment. There is an appeal process so that people who are forced to resign under duress can still get their benefits. If everyone did this, perhaps school systems would stop this awful process.

     
  38. Ms. I

    Ms. I Maven

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    I'm another non-renewed person (my 1st yr of teaching...sped teaching, by the way). I HATE how only one person...the principal, holds all the power because if they don't like you, you're screwed & as we know, not everyone meshes well. My P didn't act like she hated me or anything, but she gave the broadest reason why she was not rehiring me: I'm not a good fit for their school. That's all I ever knew. Who knows the real reason. I've commented on this board before how a few members should vote on whether to totally let go a teacher, but I know it's time consuming & will probably never happen.

    I've since returned to subbing, went back to school to study a different field, but it's a position still working in the schools (but could also be in other types of settings, which is good) & it's EXTREMELY highly in demand. I've been having kind of a bumpy road with it though since I'm still in grad school & learning. It's a difficult, rigorous field of study. I'd say MUCH more than sped & no offense to you because I have my MA in special ed myself, so I'm familiar with sped.

    I hope to never be a sped teacher again now that I've switched fields. This is all the more reason I want to find a good work at home job. My mom & I have constantly been on the hunt & have tried many things throughout the years.

    Good luck to you!
     
  39. Ms. I

    Ms. I Maven

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    Jul 31, 2013

    Go to the sub-forum titled Substitute Teachers under the Specal Interests section & click on "Post New Topic".
     

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