HELP!!!!

Discussion in 'New Teachers' started by shiwanisandell, Apr 12, 2008.

  1. shiwanisandell

    shiwanisandell New Member

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    Apr 12, 2008

    :help:Hey I m a new teacher teaching 3rd 4th and 5th grade and the students just dont seem to acknowledge my presence ....they just continue talking and Do not listen to me AT ALL!!!! they do not do the work ask them to do in class they dont stop talking they roam around in the class!! nothing seems to help!! i have tried being nice n polite...shouting at them...pleading with them...everything!!! i dont wish to send them to the principal for everything i want to be able to control my class....What do i do????:help:
     
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  3. wldywall

    wldywall Connoisseur

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    Apr 12, 2008

    Ah, they smell fresh blood and they are trying to make you crazy. Kids love to see a teacher freak out.

    You must show them you are the leader of the classroom. You are the boss, do not teach if they are talking, period, don't say anything but give them a serious stern look (the best mother looks, the one that made you scared of the upcoming punishment) If they keep acting up move toward them and stand right next to the little offender, still not saying a word. If they still do not stop, lean in close and make your presence felt. (you do not have to stop teaching this entire time, but if the whole class is teaching you do not talk over them)

    I have recently tried some of the techniques of power teaching (read about it here, all of the books on it are free to download http://homepage.mac.com/chrisbiffle/Personal17.html) and have found it to work very well. Give it a try, it can't make the situation any worse than it is now.

    No matter what they do, do not raise your voice, it only gives them the satisfaction that they got you upset. I tried that it, and it backfired, and it was much harder after that to get the class doing what it should be doing.

    Good luck
     
  4. shiwanisandell

    shiwanisandell New Member

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    Apr 18, 2008

    thank you so much...the tip really seem to be working!! though sometimes they still ignore me!!!
     
  5. Loomistrout

    Loomistrout Devotee

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    Apr 19, 2008

    Couple Qs:

    1. When did you start with classes?
    2. What kinds of formal behavior management training have you received prior to this assignment?
     
  6. giraffe326

    giraffe326 Virtuoso

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    Apr 19, 2008

    Wait them out. Tell them what you don't do in class will be transferred to homework and that if they don't do their homework you will call their parents.

    Also establish a good reward system.
     
  7. mmswm

    mmswm Moderator

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    Apr 19, 2008

    I'm glad to hear wldy's suggestions are working for you. Whatever you do, you MUST remain calm and in control. You must also be very very consistent. Whatever it is you have started, you need to stick to it. There may be some regression here and there, but stick to the plan, they'll come around in the end.
     
  8. mikaelab

    mikaelab Rookie

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    Apr 19, 2008

    You need a plan. Period. The plan needs to then be rehearsed with kids. I 100% agree with the first response, but you need to combine that with a plan. The kids need to know what the specific consequences will be for their actions, and the consequences need to be logical. You should definitely think about involving the students' parents. Do not do not do not be afraid to call home or email home and talk to the parents. They will not think you are weak. I have found it helpful to start behavior related conversations with, "I need your help." It is amazing how parents just do not get defensive when you ask for their help. It makes them feel like they are an important part of what happens in the classroom. Oftentimes with kids at this age even the threat of calling home works. But whatever you say you are going to do, do it. Follow through. Even if you realize that what you have threatened is a little silly, do it. The kids learn quickly if you are a teacher who will follow through or if you are a teacher who will simply follow idle threat with idle threat.

    Good luck!
     
  9. shiwanisandell

    shiwanisandell New Member

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    Apr 20, 2008

    Hey Loomistrout....

    I started two weeks ago and i have a Bachelor degree in Education..
     
  10. cutNglue

    cutNglue Magnifico

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    Apr 20, 2008

    Many classrooms are extra chatty this time of the year. You have to deal with that on top of fresh blood.

    Do think about a reward system for this short time left in the year.
     
  11. Loomistrout

    Loomistrout Devotee

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    Apr 20, 2008

    I sort of assumed you had a degree and/or credential. I was referring to any relevant on-going behavior management training like a methods course, "Classroom Discipline" (?), which prepares a teacher for realities of the classroom. I'm not aware of a sophisticated management program which advocates "being nice n polite/shouting and pleading" as an effective means of crowd control. Don't misunderstand this is not a slight about your abilities. Most teachers receive little if any discipline training beyond the typical "You will figure it out as you go along" which is the remedy offered by many so-called experts at the college level.

    Typically when our backs are against the wall our adrenaline tells us to respond in a biological way to provocation. Since hitting the kids is a no-no (although would be nice once in a while) we do the next best sort of socially acceptable thing -- we open our mouth. Now with jaw set, face tensed, teeth clenched we expose our wisdom garnered from training, education, and experience. Students sit and wait for our big number, the one that will ensure them they are dealing with a savvy, withit teacher not easily riled by a bunch of small people. After all the build up kids get what they have heard for years from parents, other teachers and alike --- "Hey! You two back there! This is the third time I've asked you to sit down!!" and "Please stop getting our of your seats to sharpen your pencil!" and "Class has started. Please take your seats. I said class has started please take your seats! Would everyone take your seats, now!!"

    Wldywall nailed it regarding discipline is done with the body not the mouth. Fred Jones puts it this way, "You will never control a room full of squirmy bodies until you first learn to control yourself." There is no magical cure that can be stated in 15 words or less. Structure has to do with the first ten seconds of greeting the class for the first time (why I asked when you started) to how much time is spent teaching rules and routines the first two weeks of school to terminating instruction each and every time a rule is broken or a routine needs to be retaught. Most teachers agree regarding commitment. But what exactly does commitment look like? Some line-up kids two or three times give up and say they were committed to line-up. Kids are no dummies. They know how to outlast an adult. They know the threshold for most adults is about nag, nag, threaten or three tries before hammer really comes down (punish). Grandma didn't have this problem as her rule was "We keep doing it until we get right". Grandma would do it over and over and over until kids gave up. Of course kids complained, griped, and made Grandma feel a fool for having any standards whatsoever. Thing is once Grandma showed kids "who she is" by her actions future rules and routines became that much easier and less time consuming. She had demonstrated her commitment and kids were done testing it.
     
  12. Carebear05

    Carebear05 Comrade

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    Apr 20, 2008

    I agree. Let them know that you're boss and if they waste your time in class then you will waste their time at home by giving them homework. If they dont do the homework, then make sure you mark it on the report card. If a parent questions you, then just simply tell them that there are things that need to be done in class and if the student(s) decide to talk instead of work then they need to face the consequences.
     
  13. 1angel

    1angel Rookie

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    Apr 21, 2008

    Keep in mind too that students always push to see what they can get away with. THey will see what you're made of. In other words they are going to see how consistant you will be. They are also demanding that structure. There are a ton of great resources out there-I know I buy classroom management books on CD and then I listen to them at planning, in the car, and making dinner.

    I really liked Teaching with Love and Logic. There's good tips and humorous stories at the same time. I also like Ron Clarks Essential 55-I downloaded from Itunes. There are some good stories and some good tips-not all of it worked for me, but the motivation sure does. Also when I got really frustrated with my really difficult group (I have a doozy this year!) I watched the ROn Clark movie--he tried so many different things-but the main thing was that he just kept trying until he got through. There were a few weeks where I watched it in the morning just to get the gumption up to return to school.

    I guess my point is find something that will give you tips and also keep your motivation up and make sure to eat right and exercise to help you keep calm as nothing will work overnight!
     
  14. Mrs.J

    Mrs.J Companion

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    Apr 23, 2008





    Great advice Loomistrout!! I am definitely going to keep your words in mind when I finally get my first teaching job!!!!
     
  15. mikaelab

    mikaelab Rookie

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    Apr 26, 2008

    Homework should NEVER be a punishment!

    I just wanted to mention here that homework should never be seen by the students as punishment - or a way to "waste their time" at home. They have to do homework so that we will see they really have learned the material, and so that they can continually be practicing working with what they know. Students need to see the value in it for themselves and really believe it. When we give kids the impression that homework is punishment, even if only a few times, they cary with them the idea that homework is nothing more than a punishment. Kids have to take responsibility for and ownership of their own learning. I have never seen a kid to this fully when he or she views the extension activities as punishment.

    Tell the students instead that if they waste your time, you will take it back during a lunch detention, or keep an entire class after school (we can legally keep kids for 10 minutes after school in my district). This way, TIME is the focus, which is really the problem anyway. Remember, kids need to see the logic in what you are doing - it helps them to build respect for you. Logical consequences are key. Telling the kids that homework is their punishment is not logical, and is counter-productive to what you are trying to do in the classroom.
     
  16. Loomistrout

    Loomistrout Devotee

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    Good point mikaelab. Sort of goes along with writing sentences as punishment.

    Problem OP speaks of has little to do with getting work done. Completing work is a spin-off or effect of a larger cause -- lack of Structure. Almost all discipline problems especially ones which seem to reoccur or raise ugly heads towards end of year can be traced back to lack of or sloppy Structure. Structure along with sophisticated Limit Setting skills will prevent 90% of discipline problems. With nine out of ten behaviors eliminated little need for extra HW, missing recess, or any punishment which students may associate with school.
     
  17. a_apple_z_zebra

    a_apple_z_zebra Rookie

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    Apr 28, 2008

    I too have found that if I explain the following, I get results:

    I have plans for today's work. Whatever we don't cover today will be homework. It could be in-class work, or homework. You're making the choice as to what it will be: your talking means that you are choosing to make this homework. Either way, it needs to be done.
     
  18. shiwanisandell

    shiwanisandell New Member

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    Apr 30, 2008

    i think thats a great idea but i still have a problem even if i give homework they do not complete it....how do i make sure they complete the homework?
     
  19. Canadian Gal

    Canadian Gal Habitué

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    May 1, 2008

    While I agree with the concept that homework should never be a punishment, a class that behaves in a way that prevents me from getting through the entire lesson plan, in my opinion is still responsible for doing the assignment that I planned for the day.
     
  20. Loomistrout

    Loomistrout Devotee

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    Huh? Students are responsible for a lesson not taught? What if critical parts are not taught entirely?

    Classroom behavior is a discipline issue. It needs to be handled with discipline techniques. Homework is an instructional issue. It needs to be handled with instruction techniques. A teacher needs to commit to one or the other but never both at the same time.

    Generally what happens (happened to me) teacher feels upset having planned and delivered a lesson which students don't seem to applaud. Not sure what to do adrenaline takes over which almost always shows up as pay-back. Although this (release of adrenaline) may help us cope it does little in solving the problem which is "What can I do to prevent disruption during lesson presentation?"
     

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