# Help! My kids don't understand place value!

Discussion in 'Second Grade' started by awp0718, Sep 18, 2007.

1. ### awp0718Rookie

Joined:
Aug 29, 2007
Messages:
30
0

Sep 18, 2007

My children are having a hard time understanding place value. When we discuss specifically place value, they understand but when when try it without using the words place value they don't understand. I gave them a ones, tens, hundreds chart and asked them to connect model and number they were writing the number (such as 21) in the hundreds column. Does anyone have any good ideas about teaching place value? Help!:help:

3. ### awp0718Rookie

Joined:
Aug 29, 2007
Messages:
30
0

Sep 18, 2007

Could really use some help...

4. ### DizneeTeachRVirtuoso

Joined:
Mar 10, 2003
Messages:
6,809
190

Sep 18, 2007

Have you tried using rods & units to help explain. I know I'm a hands on visual learner. Maybe if you had a place value mat & then showed them how you use the rods & units.

5. ### MrsCMultitudinous

Joined:
Aug 8, 2005
Messages:
14,070
1,886

Sep 18, 2007

Use base ten blocks along with a place value chart. Instead of just writing the words at the top also put a sketch of the corresponding block. Have them show the number first with blocks, then transfer to the chart.

6. ### TeacherGroupieModerator

Joined:
May 13, 2005
Messages:
29,807
1,171

Sep 18, 2007

Try Monopoly money, using only ones and tens and hundreds and thousands: "three hundreds, two tens, five ones"...

7. ### czaczaMultitudinous

Joined:
Sep 30, 2001
Messages:
24,959
2,116

Sep 18, 2007

It's a little early in the year for this for 2nds!! Do they have their additin facts down yet? They need lots and lots of work with understanding concepts of number: how many more, how many less, greater than, less than...Start integrating tens and ones into your 'math talk' when working with numbers in the teens and higher- especially during calendar (do you do the straw thing during calendar? That lays a lot of foundatin for place value discussions later on in the year!!)

8. ### awp0718Rookie

Joined:
Aug 29, 2007
Messages:
30
0

Sep 19, 2007

I want to move on to greater than less than, but this is the way it's set up on our pacing guide...

9. ### DizneeTeachRVirtuoso

Joined:
Mar 10, 2003
Messages:
6,809
190

Sep 19, 2007

Couldn't you do something with 2 kids in a group. Each of them have a place value mat. Write the numbers on the board. Have one of them do the left number (or write it in a color) & the other do the other number & then they could compare. Or have them do one number on top & one number below so they can see that 20 is greater than 10.

There's got to be a few that are "getting" it pair them up with your lower ones. I did this quite often...my "higher" ones loved helping the others.

Joined:
Aug 29, 2007
Messages:
30
0

Sep 19, 2007

Great idea!

11. ### DizneeTeachRVirtuoso

Joined:
Mar 10, 2003
Messages:
6,809
190

Sep 19, 2007

No problem...I know in math at the beginning of a new "subject" we would work in pairs or do a lot of "together" work. If we did a workbook page together we would always put a DT at the top so the parents knew that we did it together!!!

12. ### jitterbug2Rookie

Joined:
Jul 12, 2006
Messages:
66
0

Sep 19, 2007

I am about to teach place value in second grade as well. It is not too early, it is just a difficult concept. I played a lot of games with the students last year as well. We grouped alot of things into groups of ten and then counted by tens. For instance, one day I made them all take their shoes off when they came in the door and we threw them into a big pile. Then they had to work together to group them into tens. We also played gmaes with cards. You get a deck of cards and use the 2-9 (and you can use the ace as a one if you wanted). Students get into pairs and they each pull three cards off the top of the deck. They have to use their three cards to make the largest number possible (you can do the smallest number, even numbers, etc). They have to know, however that the biggest number has to go in the hundreds place to make the biggest number possible. The person with the biggest number gets to collect all the cards and they draw again. The person with the most cards wins. You can also put it in your morning calendar so they are constantly grouping straws for every day. There's a caterpillar activity as well that you can make with egg cartons. You make a caterpillar out of half an egg carton and you label each part of the egg carton as a ones, tens, hundreds. They put beans in the correct spots in the carton to make certain numbers. For instance, if they wanted the number 459, then they would need four beans in the hundreds place, five in the tens, and nine in the ones. You could use money too (trading ten pennies for one dime).

13. ### mom&teacherCompanion

Joined:
Aug 8, 2007
Messages:
155
0

Sep 20, 2007

I was just getting on to make this same post!!!! At our school kids learn place value in 1st grade, but my class this year seems to be low in EVERYTHING. I did a whole bunch of hands on activities and then found some worksheets online. Most of the activities were listed above with using base 10 blocks.

Joined:
Jul 3, 2007
Messages:
350
0

Sep 21, 2007

Jitterbug, I use the same game! We actually played it today, because I knew that only one or two understood it. I call it "I'm the biggest!". I use one card of each 0-9. I pull one at a time, and they have to place each on in either the ones, tens, or hundreds place and hope that the next cards pulled will fall into place. They LOVED it, and at first it was a struggle, but after 12 or so rounds, they got it! Give it a try!

15. ### czaczaMultitudinous

Joined:
Sep 30, 2001
Messages:
24,959
2,116

Sep 21, 2007

Joined:
Jul 3, 2007
Messages:
350
0

Sep 22, 2007

I don't have a choice but to teach it now, it's in our curriculum. We use Everyday Math, and since it's a spiral curriculum, all the concepts keep cycling, including place value. It's in our 2nd unit, which I'm already halfway through.

17. ### mswifeRookie

Joined:
Feb 25, 2007
Messages:
52
0

Sep 22, 2007

Totally agree, but...

It is early for place value, especially if students don't have a firm understanding of number sense. However, in our district, teachers must follow a list of skills (complete with required depth of knowledge for each) broken down into trimesters. Each trimester, there is district wide assessment of the math skills and concepts, so your class had better be ready for it. Unfortunately, there is little room for teacher discretion in terms of concepts or pacing. It's frustrating for an experienced educator when she knows the curriculum is moving much too quickly for her particular students to develop real mathematical understanding.

18. ### teacherskConnoisseur

Joined:
Jun 1, 2007
Messages:
1,872
1

Sep 22, 2007

When I was teaching place value, I made little flip booklets. I got the idea from some lakeshore ones I saw in the CMC room at our school. The lakeshore ones went up to 100,000 -- but I was just trying to get my kids to understand ones, tens, hundreds.

They looked like this:
http://www.didax.com/shop/productdetails.cfm/ItemNo/195-164.cfm

That way, when we say "what number is 4 hundreds, 2 tens, and 4 ones?" I have the kids flip on their charts to that number. That way they can SEE what we're talking about but also see that it's just 424! I will also have them flip to make the number 533 - and tell me how many hundreds, tens, ones.

This was helpful for them in combination with the base ten blocks. I made little placemat like charts for them to put the ones, tens, hundreds blocks on. We also talked about "expanded form" numbers and I really think that helped them to catch on to the place value idea/concept.

19. ### jitterbug2Rookie

Joined:
Jul 12, 2006
Messages:
66
0

Sep 23, 2007

Joined:
Aug 10, 2006
Messages:
304
0

Sep 24, 2007

We've already covered place value too in 2nd (in the room I'm student teaching in). It is a really complicated concept! We did a mix of things that worked for some, not for others, but it may be the lack of time we had to work in depth on this.

For tech, the http://www.nlvm.com is a great site. The kids loved it!

We also did something someone above mentioned: sketching the manipulatives. Just a dot for ones/units, a line for tens/rods, a square for hundreds/flats and a cube for thousands.

We also made a chart for them to fill out. It had a place to write the numeral, a place to sketch it out, a place to write its value (divided into H, T, O, ect for them), and a place to write the words, and a place to write it in long version. (What is that called? Long day, sorry!) Like 700+40+2= 742.

We didn't do this, but I would make the chart, laminate it and then let them use dry-erase markers to fill it out. I'll see if I can get some pics, so much easier than explaining!

Joined:
Aug 10, 2006
Messages:
304
0

Sep 24, 2007

Glad to know I am not the only one who snags ideas from the catalogs! I have seen this too, and I wanted to recreate one also. Now I'm in the mood to finally get it done!

22. ### teacherskConnoisseur

Joined:
Jun 1, 2007
Messages:
1,872
1

Sep 24, 2007

Oh, you should see my room. Everyone always thinks I have these "wonderful ideas" for getting various concepts across to my kiddos. Haha, it's so funny. I have made little letter tiles, flip books, rounding charts, number lines, all things I've seen in catalogs.

Catalogs are my inspiration! That's the way you live when you work at a Title 1 school!

23. ### TeacherGroupieModerator

Joined:
May 13, 2005
Messages:
29,807
1,171

Sep 24, 2007

"Expanded notation."

24. ### Master Pre-KVirtuoso

Joined:
May 18, 2007
Messages:
6,291
283

Sep 25, 2007

good luck with that one! I still don't know! llike left and right...until I turn around! the alligator eats the big one?! < > less than, greater than? and = to ...and hey, isn't there a greater than and/or equal to?

this is why I teach preschool!

25. ### Master Pre-KVirtuoso

Joined:
May 18, 2007
Messages:
6,291
283

Sep 25, 2007

you go TG! You are my hero!!

that is a math test question

which number is seven hundreds, four tens and two ones?

I hate word problems!!!

math phobia sufferers unite here!!

26. ### TeacherGroupieModerator

Joined:
May 13, 2005
Messages:
29,807
1,171

Sep 25, 2007

"Greater than": yes, the alligator eats the bigger number. Or, if you prefer, Ms. PacMan eats the bigger number. Or if we think of the > symbol as two lines drawn to connect three points: two points on the left are more than one point on the right.

TWO points, left > ONE point, right

You can even think of it like music: "greater than" would be a decrescendo (from larger to smaller), "less than" a crescendo (from smaller to larger).

And "greater than or equal to" looks like a > on top of a _.

27. ### Master Pre-KVirtuoso

Joined:
May 18, 2007
Messages:
6,291
283

Sep 25, 2007

ok, I do have an answer

I saw this on my last sub assignment. I was so cool.

This teacher used all types of tops, lids, caps, you name it. Laundry bottle tops, mayo jars, etc. She put them in groups of 10s inside ziploc bags. The first graders used them for counting. I think you could try that for place value. the rods, or unifix cubes can be a little vauge..IMO...10 of these equal one of those, yeah right.

but volume..like place value is easier to see. a big Tide top is 100 and a Downy top could be 10 and a Shout cap could be 1.

I really wish I had maniplatives when I was little! I definitely needed some tactile understanding.

what about straws...the small ones for stiring coffee, or drinking milk? that is a classic for counting the days of school.

you do calendar, and then you show we have been in school by place value, 100, 10, 1. Right now, we are up to 22 in Chicago burbs. So you would start with single straw in ones. Once you have 10 straws, bundle them with a rubber band, and put in tens, and then 2 bundles = 20, and 2 single straws in ones pocket - 22 days.

some people make the pocket charts, and others just get it from Kaplan/Lakeshore.

oh...another class did this with money too.

pennies...and then they used a dime after they had 10 pennies, and then they used a dime after 10 dimes, they used a dollar.

yeah..this was a fancy-suburban school. Last time I saw a dollar in a jar, (that stayed there) it was inside a glass milk bottle on my back porch.

sigh.

tell me I am not alone here...

28. ### Master Pre-KVirtuoso

Joined:
May 18, 2007
Messages:
6,291
283

Sep 25, 2007

what would I do without you?? you know..I knew! i just freak out on a test and they don't make them nice and big like you did :wub:!

now, can you solve quadratic equations...by the Hindu method! My Dad keeps saying this..and it drives me nuts!

I honestly have yet to find ANY situation that requires me to find the square root of a number! we need a - math for real life class.

29. ### TeacherGroupieModerator

Joined:
May 13, 2005
Messages:
29,807
1,171

Sep 25, 2007

Nope. But then again the math I teach is a good deal closer to real-life math.

30. ### LesleyHabitué

Joined:
Jan 10, 2006
Messages:
952
0

Sep 25, 2007

It is not early, seems we are all starting place value about now in second grade. We HAVE to follow the curriculum or we are written up and could be placed on PIP or not rehired. Our district is very strict on this. We start out with tens and ones then in a later chapter we deal with hundreds. I have always had fun using large marshmallows, toothpicks and cheerios. The toothpick goes in the large marshmallow, cheerios are your 'beads'. You label each marshmallow, Hundreds, Tens and ones. Then write a number on the board, they stack the cheerios accordingly. So 245, place 2 cheerios on hundreds, 4 on tens and 5 on ones. When done, they can eat!

31. ### Master Pre-KVirtuoso

Joined:
May 18, 2007
Messages:
6,291
283

Sep 25, 2007

hmmm...new wellness policy in one district says no more food for lessons! they are afraid of childhood obesity. that would change things for a lot of people! of course, no candy for rewards either!!!

seeing marshmallows would drive the principal insane!

32. ### TeacherGroupieModerator

Joined:
May 13, 2005
Messages:
29,807
1,171

Sep 25, 2007

(sighing)

Lumps of modeling clay or chunks of florist's foam and pony beads, then.

33. ### awp0718Rookie

Joined:
Aug 29, 2007
Messages:
30
0

Sep 28, 2007

Great idea! Thanks!!

Joined:
Aug 29, 2007
Messages:
30