Having kids state the objective

Discussion in 'Elementary Education' started by waterfall, Aug 30, 2012.

  1. waterfall

    waterfall Virtuoso

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    Aug 30, 2012

    This is completely driving me crazy. We did it in my last school too but they weren't as nutso about it. If my kids said, "we're learning about characters and setting" that would have been good enough. Here, they want them to know ALL of it as well as the "how" they're doing it. We have to have "learning objectives" for each lesson, and they want it so that if the P or anyone else comes in and asks a kid what the objective is, they should be able to say it right away. A lot of these are pre-made for the lessons based on the curriculum. Many of my kids just can NOT do this.

    I write the objective on the board, where it stays for the lesson. I say the objective, we say it together, and then I ask them to tell their partner what it is. Then I call on a kid or two randomly to say it, reminding them that anyone could be asked, not just kids who want to answer. Many of them don't even know it when I call on them after we JUST went over it. If they don't, I review it again and make the whole group say it with their partner again. Even if that works, by the time we get to the end/independent work half of them have forgotten it. They know it's on the board, but I'd say only about half of them read well enough to read it word for word correctly. The past two days the P has come in to ask kids and both of them didn't know (both VERY low, one non-reader and one almost non-reader). I feel like it's such a waste spending SO much time getting kids to spit out an objective, but for walkthroughs this is pretty much the main thing I'm getting evaluated on. How do you get them to do it?
     
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  3. pwhatley

    pwhatley Maven

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    What a waste! My P just wants to know that the kids are actively engaged, and know what we are doing - not the professional terminology or formatting (i.e., parrotting the standards) that I think I'm reading that you have to do. If my P asks a child what s/he is working on, s/he should be able to say "spelling short a words," or "adding," but to actually repeat the objective word for word? When are you actually supposed to teach?
     
  4. HistTchr

    HistTchr Habitué

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    Aug 30, 2012

    I teach high school, and we have to post our objectives, too. I usually do refer to it at the beginning of the lesson, and I always write it in the same place on the board. I used to have the students write it down every day when they first came in, too. I'm not sure if it has ever really made a significant difference in their learning, though.
     
  5. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Aug 30, 2012

    That seems like a waste of valuable learning time on regurgitation.
     
  6. KinderCowgirl

    KinderCowgirl Phenom

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    You should see me trying to do it with Kindergartners! And they want us to teach them the verbs from the objectives--so if the objective is "discriminate shapes based on attributes"--that's what they are supposed to say.
     
  7. HistTchr

    HistTchr Habitué

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    Aug 30, 2012

    It's like that at my friend's school, too. She teaches first grade, and she always says how the kids can't understand the vocabulary of the objectives. (Actually, they probably can't even read the objectives at this point.) Every teacher is still required to post them in formal language, though.
     
  8. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    Yes, I just love the verbs students are supposed to understand. Give me a freaking break!

    I'm with you...I find it to be incredibly difficult and a waste of time. If student can chat for a second about what they're doing or learning, awesome! Why must we require everything they do be in a just so form or format? Sad and stupid.
     
  9. bnwteach

    bnwteach Rookie

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    Aug 30, 2012

    We have to do this at my school, too. Amazing, I don't remember objectives being posted or have to state objectives when I was in school, and we turned out just fine!
     
  10. YoungTeacherGuy

    YoungTeacherGuy Phenom

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    Aug 30, 2012

    This must be the new fad because we've been doing it for the past five years or so.

    Like the above poster said--I never had to do this as a student in the '80s/'90s and I still mastered the material.
     
  11. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    We didn't have to state it, but we always were told what we would be learning during that lesson and why. The strugglers that had a hard time knowing what was going on in general might not be able to tell you what they were supposed to be learning, but most kids knew.

    This was a long time ago.
     
  12. iteachbx

    iteachbx Enthusiast

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    It does seem like a waste of time. I'm clear about my objectives, enough that a kid could answer with "I'm practicing inferencing by questioning the text and answer my questions."

    It would be hard to get the kids to all be able to recite the "how" because usually that's where the differentiation comes in. They're all working to reach the same objective but how they reach it is what I'm differentiating.

    Could you maybe have the objective on the top of their worksheet or on a little label and stick it to their work or is that considered cheating? lol
     
  13. iteachbx

    iteachbx Enthusiast

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    Aug 30, 2012

    We also have a daily objective chart in the room where we right the objectives for the day. But again, these are brief, really just the topic and maybe a tiny bit more of information.
     
  14. terptoteacher

    terptoteacher Connoisseur

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    Aug 31, 2012

    We have to post ours as well, but in kid friendly language.
     
  15. mandijyn

    mandijyn Rookie

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    Aug 31, 2012

    We are held accountable to this ridiculousness as well.. with Kindergarteners... Our district imposed this "Marzano" system K-12 with Learning goals that need to be posted for every subject/lesson and recited upon request by students. It is 50% of our evaluation. My question is- I work to differentiate instruction for 18 students' individual needs... why can't they distinguish between the evaluation of an elementary teacher/middle/high school. It is not a one fits all kind of thing...
     
  16. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    How utterly insane.
     
  17. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    To me this is just one of the many ideas in education that have at its source a beneficial purpose but it has been removed from its purpose and used incorrectly.

    Yes, every child in the class should know what they are doing and why. That isn't a bad thing.
     
  18. pwhatley

    pwhatley Maven

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    We have to post our standards for every subject - in "I Can" or "We Can" language. I figure that I'll keep all 6 Speaking and Listening standards up all year!
     
  19. tgim

    tgim Habitué

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    I use my small white board (used to use it for homework); some items don't change all week....English/spelling/reading weekly comp skills. I am very general and we try to begin and end each lesson with this...but........:whistle:
     
  20. MissScrimmage

    MissScrimmage Aficionado

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    Wow! What a waste of learning time!! You spend so much time teaching what the objective is, do you actually get around to teaching the content?? What would happen if one of your students was asked and couldn't state the objective?

    As far as what to do, I guess tell the kids they can read it off the board if someone asks.
     
  21. chebrutta

    chebrutta Enthusiast

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    Ah, Marzano. Just wait until you have to start doing the scales... writing individual scales for every learning goal/essential question and then have to stop every so often to check and see which kids feel like a 4, 3, 2, 1, 0.

    It's a waste of time.
     
  22. Tasha

    Tasha Phenom

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    Sep 2, 2012

    I think the kids knowing what the objective is and why they are learning it is great, but having to take the time teaching them to memorize the formal language is a waste of instructional time!
     
  23. Linguist92021

    Linguist92021 Phenom

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    Sep 12, 2012

    I have a question about how to phrase my objectives for this classroom.
    I'm subbing for the same teacher for a week and a half. He didn't leave me objectives, actually I don't think he writes them up himself, at least I've never seen them. But I don't want the P to get on my case.
    1 class is geography, I have that taken care of.

    But he has 4 periods of the following:
    He's a GED teacher, students take the GED every month. He only has about 2-5 students max / class taking the GED, the rest of them are just in the class. So this is what the class is learning / doing: (about 15 students total in each class)
    - the ones taking the GED are independently or sometimes in small group instruction work on their weak areas. This can be math, science, reading, writing, etc.
    - about 5 students or so are doing independent assignments on various subject (depending on what they need credit for)
    - a couple are working on their senior portfolio
    - the rest are on the computer working on a GED program (this can be games, activities, etc), or from a GED book.

    Most of the students are on computers, are able to listen to music as long they're doing work. I've been having a great time, because they are occupied, not disruptive, I can easily see what they're doing and ensure that they are working.

    What do I write up for learning goals / objectives? The only thing I can come up with is 'complete individual assignment', but that sounds like a task, something they're doing, not something they're learning. And I cant write one blanket statement, pretty much everyone is doing something else.

    Advice? Thank you!
     
  24. mollydoll

    mollydoll Connoisseur

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    Sep 12, 2012

    I teach GED, so I know exactly where you are co,IMg from.

    What assessments are they using? I teach adults, so we use TABE. I base my objectives on the TABE scores and the measurable progress that we want to see.

    The GED books are all broken into very targeted, brief sections, so you could use those. Maybe something like SW complete pretest for [insert appropriate domain] to identify weaknesses. SW Demonstrate mastery of [whatever it was] through the posttest.

    I know those aren't really properly formed objectives, but something like that should be doable. Unless you have boatloads of data and planning time, they can't really reasonably expect you to have individualized objectives for each kid, can they?
     
  25. Linguist92021

    Linguist92021 Phenom

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    I don't know what assessments they use, because I'm just subbing for the class. Even if I use the books for objectives, I still wouldn't know what to use. They're all on totally different sections. For example from the top of my head in one class I have:
    2 - senior portfolio
    1 government
    1 economy
    1 geography
    2 are taking their GED next week, so they're focusing on writing essays
    2 already took the GED and passed
    1 has a reading level of 4th grade (Sped), he's working out of the Lang. arts GEd book
    2 are working on GED math computer
    1 GED science out of book


    I'm not giving them any pretests/posttest, the regular teacher does it.

    ?? :(
    I need something to put on the board :)
     
  26. mollydoll

    mollydoll Connoisseur

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    I meant the Pre/post tests that are usuall in each subsection of the GED books.

    Maybe as their intro activity they could write a one sentence goal for the day and you could use that?

    Or ask an admin what they would like to see?
     

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