Have you ever given up on a child?

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Learner4Life, Apr 16, 2009.

  1. Learner4Life

    Learner4Life Cohort

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Messages:
    720
    Likes Received:
    0

    Apr 16, 2009

    I dreampt about this child last night so I guess he's getting to me more than I want him to....
    We'll call this child B (for brat, just kidding). He has a long standing reputation for maniuplation and anger issues as well as resistance to change. He was moved into my math class in December and it has been a constant battle ever since. He is constantly telling me that he is not stupid and does not need to be in this "slower" math class and I constantly tell him that he is not stupid but his grades prove that he does need to be in the "slower" math class. He pulls battles with me like "I'm not going to do any homework until Thursday night and then turn it all in on Friday with my folder" Then he turns in NO folder and tells me it's my fault he's failing becuase I lost his folder. I have gone to the principal, the super, the spec ed teacher, his other teachers... I've asked every person for advice that I can, including his own mother, and no one can tell me what to do with this child.
    Yesterday during class he told me that his mother was making him come in for tutoring after school (worth 25-30 extra credit points). He then decides, somewhere between Math and After School, that he is going to skip and return to school right before the end of the after school program so that his mom thinks he attended. Of course, I called mom and she said to leave him outside because she doesn't want a fight. Okay, I understand that you don't want a fight, but you would rather have your child running around town with no supervision?

    Okay there is more to this story, but I have to go outside for recess duty.
     
  2.  
  3. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    24,948
    Likes Received:
    2,096

    Apr 16, 2009

    No I've never given up on a child and neither should you.

    Cooperative discipline tells us there are 4 goals of misbehavior. The goal from which your child seems to be working is 'fear of failure'...This is characterized by: Some students feel inadequate because they believe they can’t live up to their own, their family’s, or their teacher’s expectations. To compensate, they behave in ways that make them appear inadequate, by procrastinating, not completing their work, or pretending to have a disability. These students hope that everyone will back off and leave them alone so they won’t have to face the fact that they aren’t performing up to their potential.

    There are behavior management strategies for dealing with each of the 4 goals of misbehavior. For the avoidance of failure kid, you could try:
    • Acknowledge the difficulty of the assigned task, but remind the student of past successes he had doing similar tasks.
    • Modify instruction, and materials.
    • Teach the student to say "I can" instead of "I can’t" by recognizing achievements.
    • Provide peer tutors or ask the student to help someone else, perhaps a younger student, to help build self-confidence


    Google 'Jane Nelsen', Cooperative Discipline, Positive Discipline...for more info. My classroom philosophy of climate building is based on Nelsen's work...it works for me.
     
  4. blindteacher

    blindteacher Cohort

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    568
    Likes Received:
    0

    Apr 16, 2009

    Learner For Life, I can understand your frustration. It's difficult to not give up on students that show in every way possible that they have given up on themselves.

    However -- I still do not give up on them. If they choose to give up on themselves, that is their choice. But as their teacher it is my job to egg them on, no matter how difficult.

    I tend to go into these situations with the assumption that there is a reason students give up. Sometimes that reason is just that they don't care about school or they don't value education in general. Other times the reason is because they have had enough bad experiences with previous teachers that they truly don't believe in their own ability, or that they are overwhelmed by outside circumstances and don't have enough energy left for school. In the first case, there isn't much I can do except keep showing my students' I have faith in them. Some students see that despite their own self-failure, I won't let them fail, and this is motivation for them to start trying again. In the latter case, it usually boils down to helping the student realize his or her capabilities and then going from there.

    No matter what the case, I think it's essential not to give up on a student. After all, even in the "hopeless cases," if they have given up on themselves, having their teacher give up on them only reinforces the negative view they have of themselves or of the educational system (or both).

    Maybe you could talk to your student, with or without his mother there.
     
  5. leighbball

    leighbball Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2005
    Messages:
    7,507
    Likes Received:
    1

    Apr 16, 2009

    There was one student in my class this year before I went out on sick leave that I felt like giving up on but I didn't. Like you, nothing seemed to work and his parents were no help either. I wish I had magical words of wisdom for dealingwith this kid, but all I can say is don't give up...give him praise whenever possible, and follow the advice of czacza and blindteacher. Good luck!
     
  6. Canadian Gal

    Canadian Gal Habitué

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2008
    Messages:
    801
    Likes Received:
    2

    Apr 16, 2009

    When I was ordered by my administration to change a students grades on his report card before he transfered to another school division, I flat out refused. My principal went in and changed the grades without my consent. After that, I was done with both that student and his family.
     
  7. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    13,828
    Likes Received:
    1,652

    Apr 16, 2009

    One of my former grade 8 students summarized czacza's point very concisely (although not as eloquently)--"It's better to be a bada$$ than be stupid". It sounds as though he has completely given up on himself and that his mother may not be too far behind. He needs you in his corner.
     
  8. Learner4Life

    Learner4Life Cohort

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Messages:
    720
    Likes Received:
    0

    Apr 16, 2009

    Ahhh Czacza, you are always the wise teacher to turn to... and I wish I hadn't done all of these things already, or I would have tried these.

    ~"B" has not had any successes in my class to remind him of at the moment. I've talked to other teachers about his successes and reminded him of those but because they were not in my class, he feels as though I'm making things up. (it's unfortunate that I got him so late in the year)
    ~ "B" also refuses to get modified work and actually retaliates MORE if given different work from the rest of the class. We've even tried modifiying it secretly and when he found out we didn't see homework or a positive attitude for 2 weeks.
    ~He's been taught to say "I can" which is part of the reason for the problem because "he can do the work" He says he's too smart for this class.
    ~ We've tried peer tutoring with "B" but he sees it as a modification and shuts down. We have yet to put him with a younger student but I'm afraid his behavior reciently will have other teachers shying away from him helping their students.

    What happened this morning:
    I was pulled into the office because this child cussed me out yesterday during the after school program. He was given an ISS but the discussion about what to do during this math class came up, with his mother on the phone. She says that the math class isn't working for "B" and that she wants him put somewhere else. There is no where else to put him!!!! He is a Spec. Ed. student who does not qualify in Math and the Spec. Ed department is overwhelmed as it is. He does not cut it in the reg. ed math class and so he was put in my class.
    The solution the Super came up with is that he will do his math in the Principals office every morning instead of coming to my class. I feel as though the child's manipulation techniques have won in this case!!!
    UGH I'm so frustrated!!!!

    P.S. I'm not giving up on this child, but I feel like I've given him every option to succeed and he refuses to take it.
     
  9. SoCal_Sub

    SoCal_Sub Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    1

    Apr 16, 2009

    The truth of the matter is that there are certain children that can not be teached or disciplined, because something is wrong (physically) in their head. At this point, "B" needs to be in a school where spanking is allowed. Sometimes, that is the only option and remedy. A child won't remember everything you say to them, but they will always remember how you made them feel or what you made them feel.
     
    Tired Teacher likes this.
  10. sue35

    sue35 Habitué

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2007
    Messages:
    897
    Likes Received:
    0

    Apr 16, 2009

    I have given up on a child in the same way you have. Not really given up per say but have tried everything. I feel horrible about it and has made me invest so much of me into it that everyone around me notices a change in me. This child does no work, does not try at anything, is a compulsive liar to me and his parents, and bullys others.

    I have tried everything I can and there is nothing else I can do. The lying has gotten so bad that it is impossible to tell if he is ever telling the truth.

    It is a horrible feeling. I almost wish I could totally give up, then I wouldn't be kept up at night thinking of ways to help him.
     
  11. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    24,948
    Likes Received:
    2,096

    Apr 16, 2009

    Learner- Don't stop trying...This is the hardest kind of behavior to remediate but just because you've tried taking some positive steps doesn't mean they won't eventually work. This kid is used to feeling this way...he's probably used to people giving up on him too...he's trying to outlast you. Don't give up. Get in there and keep slugging away. You have the ability to be that one person who didn't give up on him.
    Although I guess if he's now in math in the principal's office, it's out of your hands..maybe let him know he's welcome back when he's ready...kind of sad that's the way the administration is dealing with this kid...just repeating the pattern of 'giving in and giving up'...
    Hope I've been somewhat helpful. :blush:
     
  12. stephenpe

    stephenpe Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Messages:
    1,922
    Likes Received:
    145

    Apr 16, 2009

    There is a point of dimishing returns. Kids like that require you to think outside of the box. I would certainly try a little psychology and get into that head. Find what flips his switch or floats his boat. Cliches abound here but that may be your best hope. For some kids you sometimew have to finally put the onus on them and treat them nomally. In reality some make it and some dont. Dont beat yourself up over it. The sooner SOMEONE holds jr responsible for HIS actions the sooner he may
    learn and become a whole individual. When your attention to HIM starts to affect your attention for the others remember what Spock said as he was dying from radiation poisoning (imnot a trekky nerd) "The needs of the many outweight the needs of the few"
     
    Tired Teacher likes this.
  13. capfortune

    capfortune Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0

    Apr 17, 2009

    Don't give up on him but at the same time don't be too hard on yourself. Do as much for him as you can but at the same time realise that unless you have the full support of his parents, or he suddenly takes responsibility for himself and his learning, you are never going to have much chance of turning him around.
     
  14. kteachone

    kteachone Companion

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    191
    Likes Received:
    1

    Apr 17, 2009

    Sometimes for your sanity, you have to give up (or give in).

    I know I'll probably get some flack for this, but I have a little girl in my class that just does not try. She cries when you ask her to do something, tells you she doesn't have to do her work, and only performs for treats. With 25 days of school left, I'm done. I'm tired of riding her for her homework or to just write her name on her paper. She's repeating next year(she's SPED) and I am tired of begging and yelling for her to do simple tasks. I'd rather use my energy on kids that care and want to do their work.

    I don't blame you for "giving up", and I hope you don't feel bad about it.
     
    Tired Teacher likes this.
  15. Good Doobie

    Good Doobie Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2011
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    1

    Aug 5, 2011

    I think some people are good at discipline. Others for instance might be better at math. To me, if a student takes so much time that the teacher is much less effective with the majority of students, then either the teacher or the student should go.
     
    Tired Teacher likes this.
  16. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    13,828
    Likes Received:
    1,652

    Aug 5, 2011

    Go where?
     
  17. EdEd

    EdEd Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    3,750
    Likes Received:
    217

    Aug 5, 2011

    So there are sort of two conversations going on here - 1) giving up on kids (generally), and 2) how to potentially help this particular child.

    With the first, I don't think all-out "giving up" is ever really in order, but I do think that there is a limit to what can be tried, and a limit to what can be achieved. I think to the extent that a teacher is frustrated and stops trying new ideas out of resentment, anger, or frustration, that's probably inappropriate and unprofessional. However, a teacher may come to the conclusion calmly and rationally that everything is being done, and support will continue to be offered, but that everything that can be done is being done. I think that's okay. My only caution would be that it would be easy to make that decision emotionally rather than rationally :).

    In terms of this specific kid, it seems like there are 2 directions that could be taken. Right now, there seems to be a moderate level of "push" going on with this kid, but nothing super strict or compelling to the child. In other words, he experiences some aversion here and there, but overall is getting his way.

    To me, there are two directions to chose from. The first is to "crack down" and become much more strict with expectations, up the consequences, yet continue providing a lot of support to meet those firm expectations. The problem with this is that it requires airtight support from a few key players - namely administration and (to a lesser degree) parents/family at home. To the extent that any of the players in the system aren't willing to hold their ground, it's hard to "get firm." A second issue with this direction is that the child tends to resist it a hold lot more, meaning that you'll experience a lot of "side effects" - more incidents, etc. which will likely escalate before getting better.

    A second direction is to move in the complete opposite direction, and drop most expectations that produce resistance, and start rebuilding a "positive dynamic" with the child from scratch. A "positive dynamic" includes a positive relationship between you and the child, positive peer relationships, and positive experiences with the school environment (curriculum, procedures, etc.). Right now, there's a snowball of negative energy rolling down the hill, and it's just picking up more snow as it goes along. Rather than trying to stop the snowball, go over to a different hill with different snow, and start building a new snowman from scratch.

    The key here is to create a series of positive experiences between you, the child, peers, and the environment. In this way, he's much more likely reengage with you, peers, and the curriculum, rather than resist everything. A few specific ideas to get this started:

    - Have a meeting with him where you explain that you'd like to give things a try and have a fresh start, and ask him what things he'd like to work on or do. Go with that - don't challenge the ideas - just go with it, even if it's ridiculous and mundane. Then, create those experiences for him in the classroom where he can work on what he wants.

    - Spend some time with him 1:1 in a fun/supportive way, where there is nothing you are trying to get him to do, say, or think. Just play, talk, etc. - follow his lead, and go with his flow.

    - Lead a small play group (obviously geared for 5th grad play level) where a small group of kids including him just play with some toys in a particular area. Facilitate positive interactions between the play, him, peers, and you. Help other kids compliment each other, etc. In this way, you are creating a series of group opportunities for positive interaction.

    Over the course of a few weeks, you'll hopefully notice that there is more positive energy in the equation, and you'll have a bit more ground to stand on when you finally start to reintroduce expectations. Slowly, while giving as much choice as possible in the situation, reintroduce "stressors" into the environment - unwanted procedures, academic tasks, etc. This time around, you'll have a mountain of positivity serving as a protective factor in the process. A child who is engaged, happy, connected, and loved is more likely to comply with an aversive task.

    _______

    It's obviously a big process to do all of this, but sometimes when a computer is running slow, you have to reboot :). If it seems like a pain to do all of this, and a "loss" to "give in" to his desire to not do anything, keep in mind that nothing is really happening now - he's not really learning, and you're spending a lot of time managing the situation. At least, with the positive alternative, you're extra time is well spent ;).
     
  18. a2z

    a2z Maven

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    5,699
    Likes Received:
    1,604

    Aug 5, 2011

    Great post, EdEd.
     
  19. EdEd

    EdEd Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    3,750
    Likes Received:
    217

    Aug 5, 2011

    Thanks a2z :).
     
  20. 1st-yr-teacher

    1st-yr-teacher Comrade

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2006
    Messages:
    468
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 5, 2011

    Did ya'll notice t his thread is from 2009? Just pointing that out. ;)

    Even so, maybe someone needed to see this thread today. :)
     
  21. EdEd

    EdEd Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    3,750
    Likes Received:
    217

    Aug 5, 2011

    Wow, I did not! That's really funny that it got regenerated today! Thanks for pointing that out - I guess we all enjoyed responding :).
     
  22. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    24,948
    Likes Received:
    2,096

    Aug 5, 2011

    :confused:
    Without good classroom mgt, it doesn't matter how good a teacher is at math, or science, or writing, or what have you. Behaviors need to be managed so learning can proceed.
     
    Tired Teacher likes this.
  23. Good Doobie

    Good Doobie Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2011
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    1

    Aug 5, 2011

    They did well. Find something we can micromanage them on. Stick a bad kid in there.

    The teacher might go to a profession where efficiency counts more than micromanagement to perfection. The kid might find a job in the real world (I guess not the US anymore) and then try school again later on.
     
  24. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    24,948
    Likes Received:
    2,096

    Aug 5, 2011

    The OP teaches grade 5....a fifth grader isn't either finding a job or leaving school and trying again later...The OP wasnt 'micromanaging', in fact she had tried many strategies to reach her student. That's what professional educators do.

    How would you, Good Doobie, as a high school teacher, manage a challenging student in the classes you teach? What content area do you teach, and how long have you been teaching?
     
  25. Ron6103

    Ron6103 Habitué

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2008
    Messages:
    838
    Likes Received:
    6

    Aug 5, 2011

    I'll jump in from a high school perspective as well, as this is an interesting discussion. I've had several extremely challenging students, many of whom not only refuse to do any work, but are often outright hostile. And when I mean hostile, I mean situations such as this: A student was texting in class, so I asked for his phone (school policy). He said no, and told me to go f*ck myself. And this was fairly minor. He did no school work, randomly walked out of class, cussed all the time, etc. He was often so incredibly disruptive that most other students simply couldn't pay attention. This kid didn't want to be in school, but was being forced to because he wasn't 17 yet.

    In a situation like that, my solution was to simply kick him out of class. Repeatedly. I spoke with him privately several times, contacted mom almost every single week, met with the administration, all to no avail. So honestly, yes... I suppose I did give up. The other kids in the class weren't learning when he was there. So most days, as soon as he started on his usual behavior, I kicked him out. Thankfully, he was suspended almost as often as he was actually in class.
     
    Tired Teacher likes this.
  26. Blue

    Blue Aficionado

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2005
    Messages:
    3,591
    Likes Received:
    3

    Aug 5, 2011

    You don't need to give up. When it is too much for you to handle, ask for help.
     
  27. callmebob

    callmebob Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    6

    Aug 6, 2011

    The one thing I think teachers have to be careful with is when a situation like this impacts them outside of the school. If there is so much negativity with a child that it is having a personal effect on you in your home life, that is something you need to distance yourself from.
    I don't see it as giving up when at work with the child, more letting go a little bit. That one child should not consume a teacher.
     
    Tired Teacher likes this.
  28. a2z

    a2z Maven

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    5,699
    Likes Received:
    1,604

    Aug 6, 2011

    Seems to me if you ask for help and no one will provide any. The entire system has given up on the student. This is a shame.
     
  29. EdEd

    EdEd Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    3,750
    Likes Received:
    217

    Aug 6, 2011

    Ron, I certainly think high school is different, and that there are different avenues for supporting kids in high school. I think a referral to the counselor, or trying to assist the child outside of class, may be in order, but I think at a certain age the nature of support changes. I also think the role of a high school teacher may be slightly different than an elementary teacher in terms of providing support for social & emotional growth. It's not that I don't think high school teachers can do this, but it's tough in the confines of a normal class period where kids are switching classes, etc. I'm not a high school teacher, so take it for what it's worth, but for me in high school, I noticed a lot more support happening in hallways in between classes or before/after school, during extra-curriculars/sports, in the cafeteria, or through counselors.

    I do think that the discussion is still relevant for high school teachers - I think there is still a lot a teacher can do (or give up on) related to academics, but in the situation described (or given by you), I'm sure that the classroom environment would be the best to address that situation. Not saying someone couldn't address that situation in a classroom setting, but I'm just not sure it would be as important/relevant as it would be in elementary.
     
  30. Milsey

    Milsey Habitué

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2009
    Messages:
    816
    Likes Received:
    40

    Aug 6, 2011

    Yes, and you know what, I have no regrets. The girl was rude to her classmates, always on her cell phone, never did any work in class, left class without permission. I called home numerous times but to no avail. I failed her for the year.
     
    Tired Teacher likes this.
  31. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    24,948
    Likes Received:
    2,096

    Aug 6, 2011

    What other behavior management techniques did you employ other than calling home? Not all students have families who will/can respond to school issues for one reason or another. What did you do to encourage some responsibility in this student? What consequences did you use? Do you feel you did all you could for this student?
     
  32. Milsey

    Milsey Habitué

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2009
    Messages:
    816
    Likes Received:
    40

    Aug 6, 2011

    Yes, she didn't belong in a regular classroom environment. I said this from the beginning of the year but no one wanted to do anything. "She's good in my class," one teacher said to me.

    Also, I gave her makeup work, which she chose not to do.
    Tired of people always blaming me.
     
  33. KatherineParr

    KatherineParr Comrade

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2010
    Messages:
    458
    Likes Received:
    1

    Aug 6, 2011

    I disagree with this premise. While the experiences of students and faculty differ substantially between high school and elementary school, it would be a grave misunderstanding to think that high school teachers don't play a serious, important role in social/emotional development.

    High school students drive, engage in sexual activity (sometimes exploring their sexuality and gender identity), make life-changing choices (college, drugs, jobs), and are at a crucial transition from childhood to adulthood.

    It seems to me that high school teaching contains as much essential social support - provided and overseen by teachers - as do other parts of the educational process.

    That said, my reaction to the (admittedly 2 year old) OP is this: you can't be sure that what's going on with any given student is about *you* or about *school*. In some cases the problem is something else (abuse? emotional disturbance?) and nothing you can do will help the student to overcome that problem. In fact, sometimes students actually like, respect, and appreciate you despite their behaviors. But for whatever reason they can't express that regard because their lives are spinning out of control.

    So it's not so much that you give up on someone as that you realize that there may be contributing factors about which you know nothing and that you cannot help to solve. In those cases the student has all my sympathy, but I recognize my own limits.
     
    Tired Teacher likes this.
  34. a2z

    a2z Maven

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    5,699
    Likes Received:
    1,604

    Aug 6, 2011

    I agree with Katherine.

    Some of my own children's closest relationships with teachers were in HS. A club advisor that got to know my child outside of the classroom setting. A in-class teacher that learned the type of interaction needed when my other child seemed a bit off for the day whether this be in class or passing in the hall.

    Often it is the little things, that forge the relationship. That doesn't mean that a child shouldn't be failed for substandard work, but relationships can be key in helping a student get by or improve.

    I often look at clubs and sports that have grade requirements. I do understand, academic success is hugely important, but sometimes these lost souls would benefit from having a tie to the school, but they are so lost that it is denied. They don't realize how much it can support them because they have never had the chance for participation. Often they don't have the "in" or an environment in which they would be accepted if they could participate.

    If a teacher can somehow build a relationship that allows a student a sense of PURPOSE somewhere in their school life or outside of life, they tend want to perform better. They have a reason.
     
  35. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    13,828
    Likes Received:
    1,652

    Aug 6, 2011

    Well said, KatherineParr! I encountered this with 3 of my grade 8 students just this past year. For these girls, school was lowest on their list of priorities--staying alive and staying sane was much more important. As far as academic achievement, we did need to be flexible, understanding and, for some assignments, "give up" on the work but never, ever, on the human being.
     
  36. The Fonz

    The Fonz Math teacher (for now...)

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2010
    Messages:
    193
    Likes Received:
    2

    Aug 6, 2011

    maybe she didn't have anyone to play musical chairs with so she couldn't do the makeup work....
     
  37. skittleroo

    skittleroo Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,958
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 6, 2011

    Perhaps you're giving people a reason to blame you. You don't sound like the most caring teacher (going form your previous posts). And if another teacher has no problem with her, then maybe it's not the kid. Maybe another teacher was able to reach her. I can't imagine a teacher being so matter of fact when they say, "I failed her for the year". Do you think you were a successful teacher???? Where I come from our jobs are to meet the kids where they are. Can we always reach every kid - probably not, but as teachers it is our job to try with everything we have - not just "fail them for the year".
     
  38. EdEd

    EdEd Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    3,750
    Likes Received:
    217

    Aug 6, 2011

    I'll concede to this. Admittedly, I'm not very experienced with the high school age group, and I can see where you are coming from with this. I still think that the manners a high school teacher may chose to support/challenge students may differ than in elementary, but I can see your point!
     
  39. KatherineParr

    KatherineParr Comrade

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2010
    Messages:
    458
    Likes Received:
    1

    Aug 6, 2011

    Ed, you're absolutely right about *how* we emotionally and socially support students. It's a different set of skills because children are different at different ages. I agree with you on all of that.

    I just wanted to point out that what high school students deal with matters enormously - it's a terribly difficult time in their lives and I think high school teachers have to be as sensitive as other teachers.

    BTW, seems like you've been away for a while. Good to see your posts again.
     
  40. shouldbeasleep

    shouldbeasleep Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,233
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 6, 2011

    Last year, last day of school. I finally just gave up. I wish him the best, but I seriously doubt he's headed anywhere but jail. So sad. He's already in trouble with the police and has a court date in August sometime. He thinks it's funny and what he did was funny. It wasn't. His mother is a user in and out of jail and visits when she feels like it only to take off at any moment. He wouldn't know if she is going to be there when he gets home. He is living with Grandma who tries. People in the community have tried hard. One of our parapros has been picking him up for two years and taking him to Boy Scouts. He was finally kicked out of it this summer because of his bullying.

    I know why he acts the way he does. I know why he pretends that he doesn't care and why he gets in trouble. I know why he doesn't bother with homework and just marked answers on the state test so that he ended up failing.

    We worked with him all year with every positive thing we could think of. The principal tried to make him his "special helper" in which he could come to the office if he accomplished so much.

    The end of last year was the end of elementary school for him. It's time to let someone else take over trying to rescue the child.
     
  41. callmebob

    callmebob Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    6

    Aug 7, 2011

    Yes and no. I believe this still comes back to the idea of time spent with the troubled students vs. time spent with the rest of the students. Should we really be putting everything we have into those troubled students, which as a result will leave less for the others? That, is not something I can make myself do.
     
    Tired Teacher likes this.

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. catnfiddle,
  2. Backroads
Total: 454 (members: 5, guests: 430, robots: 19)
test