Have any of you seen this article?

Discussion in 'Teacher Time Out' started by Tired Teacher, Aug 8, 2020.

  1. Tired Teacher

    Tired Teacher Groupie

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  3. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    Aug 9, 2020

    Kids catch Covid just as well as adults do - period. Kids have not been tested regularly, since many have simply been at home sheltering in place. Current events have shown that when children are exposed to the virus, they may experience the disease as asymptomatic spreaders, especially by the age of 10 and above, fully capable of transmitting the virus to others, including other children, family members, and teachers. You might want to look into the cases in Georgia where students went to a camp, sharing living quarters in cabins, in fairly close proximity to each other. Masks weren't mandated, so one could expect that compliance was spotty. All students were required to have a negative Covid test result to attend the camp, and the number of students who acquired the viral infection once they were exposed to students who were incubating the disease was hovering around 40%-50%. Those contracting the disease showed a range of symptoms ranging between asymptomatic spreaders and children with varied symptoms, some compounded by preexisting conditions.

    Children are not immune to the disease prior to exposure to the virus, just like adults, but since they tend to have fewer severe health problems at the time they are exposed to Covid, their outcomes seem to be milder, less severe. Even as I say that, however, it is worth noting that if the child does have pre-existing health factors, such as a weak immune system, asthma, cardiac factors, kidney damage, etc., they can exhibit a Covid disease state that is much more dangerous for themselves, possibly leading to death.
     
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  4. waterfall

    waterfall Virtuoso

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    Aug 9, 2020

    Unfortunately, I think we're about to find out "kids don't catch covid" because they haven't been in school. Especially the study about kids 10 and older spreading it as well as adults. Think about it- kids 9 and younger are pretty much the most well isolated population. They weren't going to school, sports, or other activities.

    Even if parents were allowing play dates, that still limited their interactions to only those few other families. Slots at day cares were limited, and even for those that went, they were in a cohort that was truly no bigger than 10/not mixed at all. That's not possible in a school environment. And since day care providers aren't worried about teaching, they have all day to clean and make sure every precaution is being followed to the letter. If kids can't follow the rules, they can kick them out.

    Older kids are more mobile and could go socialize on their own over the past 5 months, and teens may have still been working at jobs. Does this explanation make the most sense, or are we really going to believe that the virus knows who is 9 and who is 10 and reacts very differently based on that?
     
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  5. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    Bingo - keep them home, protect them, and, miracle of miracles, the kids don't catch the disease. Cause and effect are not hard to see, but people have to be willing to open their eyes.
     
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  6. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Aug 9, 2020

    Here is some research about why kids may be less likely to contract COVID.

    There has been research regarding kids not being as easily susceptible to COVID,
    Nasal Gene Expression of Angiotensin-Converting Enzyme 2 in Children and Adults

    This says kids 10 and under have a much lower risk of contracting COVID than adults. Those in the 11-17 category have increasing chance as they age (getting more ACE@ gene expression as they age).
     
  7. CaliforniaRPCV

    CaliforniaRPCV Companion

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    Aug 9, 2020

    My understanding is that there is a difference between hosting a virus or bacterium and having the disease(s) caused by them. Someone can be infected with SARS-CoV-2 but not have COVID-19, i.e. asymptomatic. There is a difference between having the disease and being able to spread it. I remember public service announcements a few years ago about pertussis (shopping cough) urging adults to pay attention to their vaccinations because it isn't such a big deal for them, but much greater risk for the babies they come in contact with. I still see these once in a while.

    SARS-CoV-2 is pretty new. But bugs that spread widely but impact different populations differently aren't new; I'd place bets on that being the norm. The argument that kids spread SARS-CoV-2 vastly differently than adults seems more like wishful thinking than science to me. Media reporting with not enough distinction between SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19 isn't very helpful when trying to make sense of what is actually happening.
     
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  8. CaliforniaRPCV

    CaliforniaRPCV Companion

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    I see this mainly as going toward explaining why disease is less common in the young. I don't see any statement about the ability to get or spread SARS-CoV-2.
     
  9. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Aug 9, 2020

    I agree the research is not designed to indicate the ability to spread the virus if the child is infected with it.

    I don't agree that it doesn't provide a hypothesis as to the ability of children to get the virus since the receptors is how someone actually becomes infected. A person with none of these receptors would not get infected.

    But then, I'm not sure how you define "get". Do you mean if the receptors in a child work as well as an adults once they intercept the virus? If the child's receptors actually intercept the virus in the right way (the same right way as an adult) then their cells would as easily process the virus and replicate it as an adults receptors cells would, then you are correct. This research isn't about how the child's receptors process the intercepted virus.

    But my version of "get" means if around someone who is positive the person will then become POSITIVE with the viral infection. That is why this research says they are at a lower risk of getting the virus. They have fewer of the receptors that allow the virus into the body's cells.

    If you inhale an airborne covid virus and you don't have as many receptor cells that will allow you to be infected, your chance of getting the virus with the same exposure as someone who has many more is less. Now, there is a point where the viral load in the air may be so high that even with very few receptors your body can't avoid it or that you are having multiple minimal exposures for an extended period of time that you eventually get unlucky.
     
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  10. CaliforniaRPCV

    CaliforniaRPCV Companion

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    I see your point. I'm still not sure how strong the association is between this research and the current situation.

    From the article: "We conducted a retrospective examination of nasal epithelium from individuals aged 4 to 60 years encountered within the Mount Sinai Health System, New York, New York, during 2015-2018."

    And

    "Few studies have examined the relationship between ACE2 in the airway and age. A study of bronchoalveolar lavage fluid from 92 patients with acute respiratory distress syndrome reported no association between ACE2 protein activity and age,5 but epithelial gene expression was not examined, and ACE2 protein may be variably shed into bronchoalveolar lavage fluid. Furthermore, the lung and nasal environments are distinct, with known differences in gene expression.6 This study provides novel results on ACE2 gene expression in nasal epithelium and its relationship with age."

    So actual SARS-CoV-2 infections were not involved in the study, and those studies that did involve actual infections found no relation between ACE2 and age (noting that they were not looking in the same places).

    Basically, the line connecting A and B might be a bit thin.

    I would like to see age vs disease for those infected with SARS-CoV-2. Even that might be problematic because tests are less likely to be given without symptoms. So samples aren't random.

    Bottom line with all these things is that studies are hard to find and everything has been so politicized that, being a really lay layman, I don't know how much to trust anything. Shamefully, I might be highly subject to filtering based on my own preconceived ideas. "Might be". You know, to allow myself the possibility that I really am completely objective o_O
     
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  11. CaliforniaRPCV

    CaliforniaRPCV Companion

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    Aug 9, 2020

    Looks like the study cited in the original post is trying to get there.
     
  12. Tired Teacher

    Tired Teacher Groupie

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    Aug 22, 2020

    Some things I just don't think they know for sure. When I see the numbers in this area, older than 50 people don't seem to catch it is often as some other age groups here.
    I think most people who are older here are just being very careful. I know some who will not visit their own grown kids or grandkids outside even.
    In order to see/ visit w/ others, besides our bubble, I go out and sit on the porch 10 feet away. (In my "happy place" ) This seems safe to me. Sometimes my happy place is denial though.
    It could be that older people tend to have more $ too that allows them not to have to expose themselves. I know 1 lady who pays 2 different people 30 bucks an hour to "run errands" for her. They are kind of at her beck and call.
     
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  13. CaliforniaRPCV

    CaliforniaRPCV Companion

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    Aug 22, 2020

    So we'll said! I'm right there with you.
     
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  14. Tired Teacher

    Tired Teacher Groupie

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    Years ago, my principal referred to 1 of my parents as Cleopatra. I did not get it right away, so she explained it meant " The queen of De Nile !!! :)
     
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