Handling tough kids

Discussion in 'Secondary Education' started by edu, Aug 2, 2009.

  1. edu

    edu Rookie

    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 2, 2009

    Well, I am gearing up for the new school year in a new state CA. I want parents to actively involve and share equal responsibilty with teacher to educate their kid. Honestly I don't like to write referrals on punk kids but surely notify the administration. I want to buy a video camera for around $100 and shoot my lecture and the kids. I use this as the evidence to show it to the parent how their kid disrupts the class and thus pain in the A.. Is this legal ? Please share your ideas.
     
  2.  
  3. nothermanda

    nothermanda Companion

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Messages:
    177
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 2, 2009

    Check with your union for legal issues.
     
  4. chicagoturtle

    chicagoturtle Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,973
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 2, 2009

    We have to get a release before videoing or photographing.
     
  5. Mrs. K.

    Mrs. K. Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    2,285
    Likes Received:
    119

    Aug 2, 2009

    If you're starting in a brand new school, why do you assume that you will have "punk kids"? If I were you, I'd try to forge a good relationship with my students before trying to figure out how to catch them doing wrong.

    And yes, you can't videotape a student without permission. I even had to have signed permission slips for videotaping I did as part of my MA.
     
  6. edu

    edu Rookie

    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 2, 2009

    Because during the interview principal told me that I will have some of them in my class and told me to handle them with care.
     
  7. WindyCityGal606

    WindyCityGal606 Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2006
    Messages:
    2,468
    Likes Received:
    12

    Aug 2, 2009

    That's a shame the principal referred to them as punk kids. Really not a professional way to speak about a student.
    As far a video-taping, I would assume the school would provide this equipment if it was necessary. I doubt you can bring your own cameras into the room. Is this your first teaching position?
     
  8. RainStorm

    RainStorm Phenom

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2005
    Messages:
    4,324
    Likes Received:
    767

    Aug 2, 2009

    Don't do this yourself. Don't do it with your own equipment.

    If the school district wants to use this technique, they will install it and set the rules for using it.

    I know our school buses tape the students, and legally we can't even show the videos to the parents of the students who do something horrible -- it violates the rights of all the other students on the bus. It can only be shown in court,and even them, we have to go to the expense of having all of the other children's faces blurred prior to that.

    In our district, if you as a teacher did this, you would be told to stop. If you did it again, you would be let go.

    Even if all the parents knew and signed consent forms, I doubt your district will want you to do this. Those tapes would become available through the freedom of information act to anyone who requested them. That is the problem. If they are done on school property, by school personnel, they may qualify under the freedom of information act.

    If you can't get a classroom under control using good solid classroom managemen techniques, why would you want to work there?

    Last observation. You can show a parent a video of their little darling committing some horrible offense, and they still won't believe it. They will be convinced that you either set their child up, or that something happened outside the classroom or the video camera sight that somehow justifies their little darling's behavior.

    Bad idea all around...
     
  9. Emily Bronte

    Emily Bronte Groupie

    Joined:
    May 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,265
    Likes Received:
    11

    Aug 2, 2009

    Same here...
     
  10. edu

    edu Rookie

    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 2, 2009

    Did I say that I can not handle them or that I don't have classroom management skills? Absolutely not. I have been teaching since 5.5 years. Last year I had 5 students who got kicked out of another school. Do you know how tough it is to handle that kind of PROVEN PUNKS ?
    What I am trying to know is that, can VIDEO be one of my resources to convince the parents of kids bad behavior. That's it.
     
  11. RainStorm

    RainStorm Phenom

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2005
    Messages:
    4,324
    Likes Received:
    767

    Aug 2, 2009

    Is this legal? No, it is not when done by a classroom teacher.

    If this were an effective classroom management tool and were legal, it would be in place in most schools.
     
  12. Malcolm

    Malcolm Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Messages:
    2,100
    Likes Received:
    3

    Aug 3, 2009

    Video recording is probably legal. Audio recording is probably illegal without consent of the parents of all students recorded. Whatever recordings you do produce in the classroom are "educational records" and must be available to the parents of any student in them. Are you sure you want any parent of any child in your classroom to have access?

    I have seen it done in unruly classrooms. The administration provided the equipment. This would be the best way to do it.

    I would suggest you make an inquiry to find out what your district policy is. If what you want to do is OK, I would suggest you get the administration to spearhead it. If you are going to do it on your own, at least get the administration's approval in writing. And definitely talk to your union rep first.

    I suspect showing the videos to parents will have little effect. Most of the parents of troublesome high school students I have met fall into one of two groups: they won't believe the kid is the problem no matter what you tell or show them, or they know the kid is trouble and cannot do a thing to help.
     
  13. edu

    edu Rookie

    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 3, 2009

    You may be correct.I definitely discuss with principal before I do that. But I am just wondering, last year when expelled students of a different school admitted into my class and tried to the same sh.. in my class I called and insisted their parents to visit my class and control them. Adiministrators accepted my proposal.So parents did what I asked them. now,how come physically visiting and observing a class is different than watching a video?
     
  14. edu

    edu Rookie

    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 3, 2009

    Thank you. Yes, I am sure I want any parent of any child in my classroom to have access. Infact I like that. I will talk to the principal before I do anything as my job is more important to me.
     
  15. MissCeliaB

    MissCeliaB Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    3,408
    Likes Received:
    577

    Aug 3, 2009

    We had a teacher who would pretend that her video camera was turned on. We did video a child having a meltdown one day, but the principal did that, and it was only ever viewed by SBLC. We are only allowed to use video or picture cameras for making artifacts for a students academic portfolio, and we must make reasonable effort to keep other children out of the picture, even if parents signed permission to video and photograph. It totally depends on the district and even school policy.
     
  16. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    27,534
    Likes Received:
    6

    Aug 3, 2009

    Because a video can be edited.

    Because a video can be posted on the internet.
     
  17. ambritlit

    ambritlit Companion

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Messages:
    155
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 3, 2009

    We aren't allowed to tell parents anything about another student's behavior. If I call Johnny's mom and say Johnny is disrupting class, etc. I cannot say who he sits next to, who is partner in crime is, or anything that names another student. We are also instructed to never put another child's name on a referral slip, i.e "Johnny called Susie a b****" These referrals are potential legal documents which Susie's parents could demand the right to see (since her name is on them), thus giving them access to Johnny's educational records - an obvious no-no.

    I can't see how you would video and show to one parent without violating the educational privacy of every student in the room.

    Personally, I don't want to know all the other teachers' opinions about a student. I had great success with one student who was apparently hell-on-wheels with everyone else. I had no idea... and I'm glad because I might have treated him differently had I known he was a "proven punk."
     
  18. Rockguykev

    Rockguykev Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2008
    Messages:
    1,934
    Likes Received:
    257

    Aug 3, 2009

    <<We are also instructed to never put another child's name on a referral slip,>>

    Awesome. Our referral requires it. It has a specific section:

    Names of other students involved: _________

    More on topic, if my district ever told me to stop recording my classroom I'm pretty sure I'd quit. There is no better tool for building a strong classroom culture than shared experience and video provides that.
     
  19. kickchick2000

    kickchick2000 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2009
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 4, 2009

    Last year I had a group of boys my last period of the day that would have made most people run screaming. They were all 16-19 years old and were the biggest trouble makers in the school, all together in the same class.

    My best advice is to build a relationship with these kids, it will honestly change everything.
     
  20. myty1124

    myty1124 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 7, 2009

    I teach at a continuation high school in Southern CA in a tough area. My students have a big problem with being photographed or video taped. I had to video my class lesson when I was completing my credential and I had to obtain written permission by the parents if the student's face would be shown. Without permission, I had to make sure the student's face was not shown or their voice was not heard. I most certainly notified my principal before video taping anything. I would check with administration before moving forward with this.

    ALL of my students have been kicked out of their home schools for one reason or another, usually bad behavior, bad attendance or both (most often both) I got the best advice for dealing with these student from a teacher who had taught cont. high school for 10 years......

    She said, " Traditional management and discipline strategies do not work with these students. These strategies have already been applied to them and they have obviously failed. What ever your traditional instinct tells you to do, do the opposite."

    I told myself this every day and it really did work. Instead of threats of discipline, I gave them the "option" to do what is right (they would rather think they "chose" to do right instead of being coerced into it.) Instead of showing anger I would show compassion and concern. Instead of telling them their faults, I would tell them about their strengths which made them want to employ their strengths rather than continue their faults.

    I was 38 years old (old school minded) when I started with these students last year, and this method went against all I ever knew and believed. This method helped me to gain the utmost respect from these students and if ever they crossed a serious line and upset me (not angered me) they felt horrible and immediately tried to repair the damage. It was not an easy year but I realized that this method does work with tough kids. The thing to remember is...... They are still kids.
     
  21. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    14,033
    Likes Received:
    1,853

    Aug 8, 2009

    This is what I try to do every day when working with my students. Many of them have heard for years about their faults--so much so that they allow their faults to define them and forget that they have strengths. Tough students need to be taught that they do have strengths and that they have much to offer. It isn't easy; the teacher has to really put themself out there. The rewards, however, for both teacher and student are, as they say, priceless.
     
  22. bandnerdtx

    bandnerdtx Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    3,506
    Likes Received:
    12

    Aug 8, 2009

    This can't be real...

    How many unruly classes have we all seen on youtube? Who gets in trouble? Not the kids. If you video tape these kids, it will come back and bite you in the tush, and you will be infamous on the internet.



    Like everyone else has so kindly suggested, if you want to get your class under control, build relationships with them. I teach in a school just like the one MyTy described, and she is 100% correct.

    The more you bully or try to intimidate these kids, the more miserable your life will become.
     
  23. stacyh270

    stacyh270 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2009
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 8, 2009

    I wish I had all the answers but unfortunately, I'm just now beginning my 2nd year of teaching (high school math). Last year, I had 2 class periods that were running over with "punks" as you have described. I went into the year not wanting to make any judgments prematurely about kids and here's what I found. The one student who EVERYONE said was the ultimate punk actually gave me very little trouble. I took an interest in his life from the beginning and even now, a year later, he shows me tremendous respect. He had a bad homelife (no father or mother around and was being raised by his granddad). Therefore, he has a bad attitude towards women. I was nice to him, respected him and he respected me back, even so that when he found out his uncles were going to install new flooring in my basement (coincidentally, I might add), he came along just to help for free because he hadn't seen me all summer. He truly was a sweet kid. This kid had been sent to an alternative school EVERY year for the last 4 years!!! Please don't judge prematurely.

    Now, about videotaping as evidence, here's my take. Last year, I had a student whose parents were very "involved" in his education and wanted him to succeed. His mom emailed me frequently about what he could do to have better grades in my class, etc. and it was explained to both parents several times that he had problems staying focused and that I suspected that he was playing games on his graphing calculator instead of paying attention during a lesson. They both "seemingly" supported me and wanted to know whenever this happened. SEVERAL times I warned him about it when I suspected he was playing games and one day, I'd had enough. I walked by during a lesson and caught him red-handed playing the games. I said nothing, but politely took the calculator, put it under my document camera and snapped a picture of the screen. I, without saying one single word, politely walked back over and handed it back to him. Later I sent his mom an email with the picture imploring her help with the situation. Guess what? She barged into the principal's office that same afternoon not about the calculator, but because her son, when confronted, then lied and said that I made a political statement in class condemning Obama (they supported him), that I absolutely, unequivocably did not say. She also sent me an email, not thanking me, but condemning me saying that I had humiliated him in class and that it was no wonder he didn't pay attention because he didn't respect me. I had to speak with attorneys, the union, etc. and spent the next 3 months worried, because his parents filed a complaint with my state's professional standards board!

    That being said, I would not video just as a policy. If they give you trouble, talk to the principal first and see what their thoughts are. Parents will almost always believe their kids over a teacher and a videotape won't change that. There's no telling what a kid can make up and claim happened that didn't show on the video and you can find yourself in a whole host of trouble.
     
  24. edu

    edu Rookie

    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 8, 2009

    Guess what? She barged into the principal's office that same afternoon not about the calculator, but because her son, when confronted, then lied and said that I made a political statement in class condemning Obama (they supported him), that I absolutely, unequivocably did not say. She also sent me an email, not thanking me, but condemning me saying that I had humiliated him in class and that it was no wonder he didn't pay attention because he didn't respect me. I had to speak with attorneys, the union, etc. and spent the next 3 months worried, because his parents filed a complaint with my state's professional standards board!


    What a horrible experience with bad parent. I am so sorry that you had go through such a heck. I listened to you. Thank you so much for sharing this.
     
  25. Historyteaching

    Historyteaching Cohort

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Messages:
    724
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 9, 2009

    Last year, we had cameras with audio AND video installed in the hallways, cafeteria, and EVERY classroom in the school. They are in the corners of each room and have helped to identify issues and consequences of students (me included). They can zoom in very well and are picture perfect, I've not seen them myself.

    Honestly, I forget they are there.

    I would, however, contact my principal, the union, school board etc, to find out if you can seemingly do the same thing, but with your own equipment, set up in your own manner.
     
  26. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,692
    Likes Received:
    1,647

    Aug 9, 2009

    I have always used this method of discipline in my classroom. I call it positive discipline and it works wonders. I am a huge fan of dumping the stoplight, card pulling, etc forms of negative discipline. Not only do those methods single children out in a negative fashion, they don't motivate children to choose positive behaviors. IMO!
     
  27. edu

    edu Rookie

    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0

    Aug 9, 2009

    By what %

    I understand that absolutely. But by what percent. If you have 10 bad students including all the classes you teach, do you think all the 10 students will change by your mantra 'positive discipline'. I am just wondering.
     

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. Susan Parker,
  2. Cornwell,
  3. Backroads,
  4. Missy
Total: 251 (members: 5, guests: 217, robots: 29)
test