Hair Stylists and Mechanics :)

Discussion in 'Teacher Time Out' started by eduk8r, Oct 14, 2007.

  1. eduk8r

    eduk8r Enthusiast

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    We had a thread a while ago about whether or not teachers are seen as professionals. It made me start thinking about the way I see people like hair stylists, mechanics, etc.

    Now I see these people as specialists and professionals in their fields. I don't know what I'd do without them, I'd be lost. What do you think about these types of career persons? Do you think they deserve as much respect for their specialized knowledge as other "professions?" Why do I want to know? Just curious...
     
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  3. Emma35

    Emma35 Connoisseur

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    I think every professional should receive respect for what they do. I know I could never do some of the things they do and I respect them for that. I know I could never do hair for a living, I don't have that kind of creativity or patience.
     
  4. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    Have license, willing to serve!

    I lady who does my hair works at home, but is going to school. It has been a long debate with me, to spend money to go to a salon, or stick with somebody I know and trust. Basically, I think they both know and do the same thing. But could I sue if I got hurt or something? guess that is the difference.

    I think you pay more for going to the salon, because of the overhead, upkeep, and it burns :)lol:) me to think they are getting all their supplies so cheap and I can buy some of the same things in the beauty supply store! So it's the overhead, the expenses, a business...yes a profession. they have their license on the wall. so that says it all.

    Mechanics keep us on the road. Again, there are back alley mechanics...your husband's cousin's ex-roomate...guys, and the folks at the dealership with nametags on their uniforms. they do the work, and if you get to know them...I follow them around, they do good work for you. I learned from the men..to go back there anyway..despite what the sign says.(NO CUSTOMERS ALLOWED) I see and learn alot! and if they can see your face, they don't mess up your car! when you are a regular, they treat you better. I don't tip them or bring them food (thought about it!:rolleyes:) but they are people too, and really appreciate compliments, and a good word to their boss. and yes, they have their license on the wall too!

    I know when I wore my school polo shirt, people stopped me all the time in the stores and on the street. "Wow, you are teacher"!

    It made me feel good. So I am really praying for this district job. I have taught pre-k/head start for some time. but having a position in a public school, with a district, in a union, really makes my license and career stand out.

    in calif, i got a discount on my auto insurance! they had a professional class for discounts!

    so, I say we are all pros.
    the girls in the beauty shop
    the guys under our cars
    and the few, the proud, the TEACHERS!
     
  5. terptoteacher

    terptoteacher Connoisseur

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    Sounds like you're interested to see if the old blue collar/white collar division is alive and well and just where do teachers fit in that debate. Are teachers white collar or blue?
    Are hairstylist and mechanics white or blue? Growing up,
    I always thought that professions like doctors and lawyers and teachers --anything that takes a college degree were considered white collar. If you wore a uniform or went to a tech. college that you were blue collar.

    I don't really think these distinctions are as prevelant as they were when I was a child. Regardless, I treat everyone with respect because there's no way I could be a hairstylist--my hands cramp up to easily. I could not be a mechanic--I know nothing of engines! I couldn't be a cop or firefighter--I'm not fierce enough. But I respect and admire those who can.
     
  6. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    As a black female, I never thought anyone like me could make a living unless they were a teacher or a nurse.

    and it seems that life has not changed.

    if you get a good government job, or corporate job..you may suceed.

    but there is more status in health care and education
     
  7. terptoteacher

    terptoteacher Connoisseur

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  8. eduk8r

    eduk8r Enthusiast

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    Terpoteacher, I'm glad it worked out for you.

    Everyone, actually what revived my interest in this is, while waiting for my hair stylist I was reading an article about how the internet is making plastic surgeon's lives harder. The doctors the interviewed said that they have women go in there who tell them what to do how to do it and where to do it. And there was one comment, "someone who wouldn't dream of taking the scissors out of her hair stylist's hands and cutting her own hair will try to grab the syringe from a doctor!..." That's what got me thinking about it again. I asked my stylist about it and she said that she does have people sometimes who ask her if she knows what she is doing and she tells them, "See that license on the wall? I am a professional."

    And I thought teachers were the only ones who suffered this... :) Anyway, the point of the article is that people think they know a lot about something because they read about it on the internet.
     
  9. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    I wish I would have thought about this when the original thread was started. There was an email going around about a new Survivor where they drop executives into an elementary classroom and see how they do. I think it would be great to see that!
     
  10. DizneeTeachR

    DizneeTeachR Virtuoso

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    I've really never gone to a salon...fam members have always done my hair. First Aunts who went to beauty school & now a cousin. I go to her house...LOVE IT. She actually is the one that encourages me to come to her house. She said for the few mins it takes to do your hair the salon has to charge for the chair time!!! At her salon they she gave family discounts, but now the owners say no more unless immediate family...how silly like she's going to bring her child to the salon to do their hair when she can do it at home!!!
     
  11. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    I agree with the previous poster in that the white shirts and blue shirts were washed together at some point and bled into one another. Truthfully, I don't like to think about it too much. It just feels judgmental, even it is completely unintentional. Why the need for classification? Don't get me wrong EDUK8R, I know it is just interesting to consider how things have changed. But it would be nice for us at one point to just say (as many people have) Thank God they enjoy that! :)
     
  12. Mrs.Rhinochunks

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    Maybe this is a little off thread but it reminds me of a conversation we had at school. One of my team members was meeting with a parent (and the principal who totally supports the teachers) because the parents were concerned that their child was not getting enough homework. Our district, school and classrtoom policies are only to assign 20 minutes of reading and 10 minutes of reflective writing each night. We live in a barder town where time and education are issues for parents and the goal is NOT to make homelife more difficult. Anyways... so the parents were concerned, and my whole thought on this was to find an polite and respectful way to let the parents know that in the classroom WE are the proffessionals. I would no more go to the electric company and tell the lineman how to hook up power lines, to the hair stylist and tell her how to cut hair or to any other trained "technician" and tell them how to do their job and they should have respect for the idea that teachers KNOW what they are doing too.

    We are absolutley proffessionals.

    My husband and I were just talking this weekend about how society has a skewed sense of values. The foundation of our society... teachers, police, firefighters, the military are underpaid, especially in relation to, just to name a few examples, performers, politicians (perks are part of pay in my opinion), athletes, and game developers.

    The irony is that professionals in low paying areas choose their career paths because they love what they do and so society can continue to undervalue these jobs because they will continue to be filled by people of passion and principal.

    Professional is not only defined by educational level and a certificate but also by the pride that you take in your work. My husband is in the military (going on 18 years-desires to do 30) and I would absolutly define him as a proffessional.
     
  13. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    You know Mrs Rhino, you have some valid points.

    Applying for unemployment is a effort in futility! They feel it is my fault for quitting a job that did not pay me, and besides when you are an educator, you can never apply for unemployment in the summer...it is assumed you will be called back. We all know this is not the case.

    Yet, construction workers are considered seasonal workers, and they can claim unemployment any time they finish a building!

    I think the field of sports needs some serious revamping. I like sports just as well as the next person, but will you pay me goo gobs of dollars for sinking a slam dunk or kicking a ball in a net? I mean, is that skill, knowlege and or just months of practicing something that you love anyway?!

    I often wondering how somebody could get paid for playing!

    They are entertaining us. Not saving lives, nor educating our future or keeping our country safe like your dear hubby.

    But in the case of actors, they are providing a well-needed service...giving us a way to relieve the stress and laugh at our troubles. Bringing literacy to life. Challenging our thoughts, bringing fantasy to life.

    If we do something wrong...we are severely scruintinzed, and punished. and if a athlete or actor breaks a law, he gets a fine, and has a way to get out of it. In fact they can change fields, or move out of the country...and still make a living. With Livescan and FBI...we are on a list if we ever step out of bounds! I got a job offer :D but must pass the background check before I can go any further.

    yet, some guy can walk on my roof, stomp around..and drop a 2000 lb air condition in, and nobody runs a FBI check on him! Here in Chicago, we had a cable guy attacking and killing people! Having a certificate does not make you professional.

    Professional has a deeper meaning that just a piece of paper. It's not what we know, its what we do. How we behave. In fact, I am so thankful to be a part of this great forum. We all know we are human. But teachers are expected to be abnormal sometimes. I know I don't have to happy hour to see and hear teachers having fun.

    the difference is, we know when and where to behave appropriately.


    Parents in preschool have a long been standing issue. They feel that they will always know what is best for their child. It does not seem to matter that we have studied the field, and want what is best for them as well.

    And as you said, if we went on their job and tried to hook up cable, type a letter, or give an IV to a patient, they would be quite upset with us.

    when you get the answer...let me know!
     
  14. mstemple05

    mstemple05 Cohort

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    mrs rhino & mpk-
    :clap:

    my girlfriend always makes fun of me & my bf. she said we woke up one day and said "hmmmmm, what job can we do that is REALLY stressful, impact lots of lives, help others, save people, mold people, touch people's hearts & minds, be important-but be paid SQUAT?... i got it! a cop and a teacher!"

    sad, but true. and you guys defined it right there. a professional isn't WHAT you do, but HOW you do it. you can be a professional trashman. there's no license for that. you can be a professional telephone operator-there's no cert. for that! but between the two of us, my bf and i have sooooooo much pride and passion for what we do. otherwise we wouldn't be doing it or care @ all. we'd be off trying to get paid somewhere. probably somewhere in the suburbs, not in the ghetto(s)!! (o, sorry, the pc term is 'the hood') sure he has wonderful benefits (that are pretty similar to mine) and the salary he makes is DECENT, but nothing in comparison to the work he does. not even close to the heart he puts in. but do you think we care? nope. we for some reason want to pick up the pieces where others have left behind. and we LOVE it. you would think they were paying this man with a new house, 08 vehicle, getting rid of all past debts, buying my ring (yea a girl can wish right? ;) ), giving him a daily allowance & pocket money, putting gas in his tank, SOMETHING extra the way he handles his job. and yet for some strange reason he always feels like he's never doing enough. society? who knows. but we put our butts out there every day (teachers, cops, firefighters, doctors, lawyers etc) for people who will NEVER FULLY APPRECIATE our 'services' and the true acts of kindness we extend. we don't HAVE to do these things. we just think we can change the world with one act of random kindness @ a time. so we try and we WANT to deal with someone else's bad --- kid b/c they didn't want to or bother teaching them proper manners. (no disrespect to those well-behaved ones).

    anyhoo, we're professionals b/c we take pride in what we do. and even if someone can do it better or cheaper or for longer, our heart and dedication far exceeds all of that......

    :up:
     
  15. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    ok, last but not least...

    what about the guys and girls who take off their polo shirts, vests, and name tags when they get off work. Or, the people who give you dirty looks and you know they are thinking, "Hey I am on break, don't ask me nothing."

    my ex sister in law says hubby had to go out of town to relax and have fun. He is always 'on'. People know him wherever he goes, because he is asst. principal. He can't be himself, get caught with a beer, just be normal...might be misinterpreted ...and end up in the paper! He has a level of knowledge, responsiblity, status and diginity he must uphold.

    why didn't some of that rub off on his brother?!

    oops, did I say that out loud?

    good night...I'm leaving now!
     
  16. mstemple05

    mstemple05 Cohort

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    loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

    but that is true. my girlfriend who's a first grade teacher said she has to watch where she goes, what she does, what she wears etc. NEVER know when a kid is around!!

    and boy could that tainted image scar them for life!! :eek:
     
  17. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    yeah, I was yelling at my daughter on the bus stop, and a girl from my daisy troop saw me! she said to her mom, stop stop, that is my troop leader! she needs a ride or we won't have a meeting. I couldn't imagine her mother coming back to get us, after seeing me go off like that! but I guess she understood!

    and her daughter did too!

    that's a 5 year old for you... they are honest and know Daisy Troop leaders are mommies too!

    ok, good night for real this time!!
     
  18. eduk8r

    eduk8r Enthusiast

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    You are welcome to go anywhere the conversation takes you... I was actually going to suggest someone go off topic 'cause I think my question was too narrow or something and I really wanted to hear more. :)
     
  19. eduk8r

    eduk8r Enthusiast

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    sigh...wishful thinking... :)
     
  20. eduk8r

    eduk8r Enthusiast

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    oh, no, I completely agree with you, that's why I brought it up! What I disagree with is the belief that some people are "worth" more than others, some professions are to be more respected than others, etc. I think we're all necessary and that thinking itself is backwards, if you ask me. To me, any job that is not harmful to others is a good job! This is a big thing in education when we are supposed to be pushing all students toward college whether they want it or it fits them or not. Now I know that someone is going to say that some professions are worth more, but... I disagree. Who put the price tags on people?

    (I'm not necessarily saying we should all get paid the same, I think that the more effort you put into your education and career the more your pay should reflect that. However, I think that everyone should be making a living wage and I don't think "minimum" wage is it! I went to Australia about 13 years ago and people who work at restaurants and shops can afford to take trips to America and other countries once a year because they make so much more than our people in the same jobs here.)

    Disclaimer: Sorry for the randomness of this post!!!
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2007
  21. eduk8r

    eduk8r Enthusiast

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    Good night, Daisy Troop Leader. :) Thanks for your contributions to the discussion and to Society at Large! :D
     
  22. cutNglue

    cutNglue Magnifico

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    I can't fix cars or cut hair. I see them as a professional. We all say we respect them as professionals and I'm sure we do, BUT....

    How many of us would go to a class reunion and when someone said, "I am a beautician" would inside think "Oh, you went to beauty school..(not college)." It's not something that I feel is out of disrespect but out of the fact that we've held DEGREES in such high esteem for so long that the idea of someone going to "beauty school" isn't qualified as being the same thing. BUT.... I can't cut hair. It's a stereotype we grew up with and not so much how we treat the person when we meet them.

    I have never held cops in the same category because they actually face danger each and every day (more so than the average military person). Most of us would get irritated with them for upholding the law but only because we have a guilty concious. Wanna know something that is a pet peeve of mine? Let's say somoene does go to war, actually uses weapons, etc. If they aren't disabled or retired, they are dropped like hotcakes when it is over.

    Okay back to blue collar workers. I need my mechanic! I think highly of what they do. They have earned a reputation of being dishonest or shady. Otherwise I think we would hold them in higher esteem.

    Before we go off thinking you can cut hair and fix cars so it isn't the same thing..let me remind you many people think that about teaching as well.

    I think the presumption of value in a job has far less to do with degrees (some) and what the actual job is than what the history of being paid is. We value doctors more because they have a history of making more money therefore they are elite. If you look at countries that are socialists, I've heard some doctors say they feel much the same way we do about our profession.
     
  23. eduk8r

    eduk8r Enthusiast

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    Ha! That's so true! I also think that it's because you didn't often have the opportunity to become educated unless you were already wealthy--and it's still like that in some countries.
     
  24. Mrs.Rhinochunks

    Mrs.Rhinochunks Companion

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    EXCUSE ME!!! Please tell this to the US Marines, soldiers, sailors, airmen and Coasties facing danger every day of the year... and I am not just referring to ground troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Men and women of the armed forces die just training to go to war. They do not show up in war zones prepared for battle because they were sitting on a couch watching TV while they were not deployed. We just do not hear of these accidents because they are not due to the "glory" of battle.
     
  25. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    QUOTE: "How many of us would go to a class reunion and when someone said, "I am a beautician" would inside think "Oh, you went to beauty school..(not college)."

    Not me. Period.
     
  26. eduk8r

    eduk8r Enthusiast

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    I think she was just sleepy when she said those things, I didn't read those comments as critical of the professions but of the way some people see them? I could be wrong.
     
  27. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    Cutnglue's husband is currently deployed in the military. If anyone has respect for what our military does for us, it would be cng!
     
  28. Mrs.Rhinochunks

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    So is mine. Honestly, now I am even more shocked that she would write what she did. I DO uinderstand her comments in the spirit they were intended.

    I do not belong to this forum to belittle or hurt. I was just shocked by the statement and had a quick reaction. If I had a dollar for everytime I said or wrote something that was not heard the way it was intended... I would be making way more money than I do now.
     
  29. eduk8r

    eduk8r Enthusiast

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    One of our teachers was upset last year over the way we push students to go to college and we behave as though it's the only way to go. Her husband never went to college but has one of the most successful businesses from the midwest to the west coast and makes ungodly amounts of money and has earned many awards for his success. (Can't say what the business is in case this is identifiable.) Her daughter also makes $200K a year and completed only one year of college, and no, she is not working for dad. Her son is in the military and has been deployed for several years now. She was so offended at the very idea that some do not consider those who have no degree to be not as intelligent or respected as those who do; especially because of her son in the military.

    Rhino, I really really think you misread CutNglue's intentions. She has never posted one comment that would lead me to believe that she views anyone that way. Please reconsider?
     
  30. eduk8r

    eduk8r Enthusiast

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    It seems here like CutNglue is saying this is a wrong thing, she doesn't think it's right.
     
  31. Mrs.Rhinochunks

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    I understand... as I said "if I had a dollar".

    As for college, we were just talking about this in my classroom recently. I told my students that the point of going to college is to get the education you need to do what you want to do. Not everyone wants to choose a vocation that requires a college education. Trade and vocational schools are absolutely viable choices and should be entered into with pride and dignity. I also put in a side note that wanting to be a stay at home mom and being a nurturer is a honorable way to spend your adulthood too.

    My husband is in the military and quite honestly he makes ove 3x what i do, has not attended college and will have marketable skills that he can "sell' in the civilain world and double what he makes now. He is extremely well spoken and I consider him well-educated based on the many school sand trainings he has attended during his 18 years in the service.

    Again, to Cutnglue, I'm sorry about my overzealous reaction.
     
  32. eduk8r

    eduk8r Enthusiast

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    I'm sorry, Rhino, now I misread your post! Please excuse me.
    I imagine that you are both extra sensitive to this issue since you are missing your husbands. I know I would be.
     
  33. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    Rhino, that's the trouble with writing over the internet. People read the words without any tone or inflection. I thank your husband for fighting for us (as I do all military). My husband was a military man before we met, went to the reserves after we were married, and we thought he was going to be deployed. Thankfully he wasn't, though I have friends that have been over there...as was my brother. Maybe cng was talking about how some of our military are treated when they come back. I have nothing but respect for the men and women of our military. There are jobs out there that don't require college degress, yet w/o them our world would not function. Most jobs today though require a HS diploma so I would stress to my students/own kiddos that they need to at least do well in school to graduate so they can go out and make a decent living for themselves.

    I've rambled enough!
     
  34. Mrs.Rhinochunks

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    Agreed!!!:)
     
  35. Master Pre-K

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    actually that is real...

    It's called Charter Schools.

    they get businessmen to put up money, and snatch up the best teachers they can, and pay them a little more. School is in session from 8-5!

    no union. no school board. no pta. must make state goals.

    no need to raise property taxes to bail out mismanaged budgets.

    does not happen, because they have a CFO running the whole show!
     
  36. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    thanks...it is a great way to contribute to society...

    if you seriously consider leaving the educational field
    volunteer with the many youth organizations out there...

    we know you can't leave the kids! ;)
     
  37. eduk8r

    eduk8r Enthusiast

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    I don't know, most of what I've heard from teachers about charter schools isn't good. Some of it is scary. The latest was from a teacher I used to work with at Sylvan. She was hired at a charter school because her aunt worked there. Not a whole year later, they went bankrupt because the administrator was embezzling the funds! I wouldn't like to see no union representation in those schools.
     
  38. eduk8r

    eduk8r Enthusiast

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    I don't want to leave the kids, just the politics and strenous overarching expectations. I want to contribute, just in a different field.
     
  39. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    what we have vs. what we do

    I know a girl who is a year younger than my daughter. she has two masters degrees.

    she recently got married to a guy she met 4 months ago, and now she is a waitress.

    I hate to admit it, but I am somewhat disappointed with her.

    She has degrees, but chose to be happy making less than minimum wage, and taking the first guy who made a move on her.

    so not to hijack, but I think it is important that we consider our profession, and degrees, and what we can do for society, and all that hard earn cash and student loans somebody had to shell out for college. every time I took an aide job, I realized that I was selling myself short. taking any old job (i.e. Walgreens, Burger King) to get by was not the right way to manage my life. I would take an aide job, for awhile...but still try to focus on something better.

    Do we have an obligation to do more, because we have more??
     
  40. eduk8r

    eduk8r Enthusiast

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    Oct 16, 2007

    MPre-k, I think we should do whatever makes us content. I think that most of us who get higher education do it not only to make more money, because you can make lots more than we teachers do in many other careers, but we want "stable" income and the respect (self and otherwise) that comes with having a degree. And last, not least, because if the career you've chosen requires a degree as qualification, you're going to get the degree to have that career.
     
  41. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    Oct 16, 2007

    ok, let me rephrase that...

    should we do more because we know more?? Am I right to think crictically of someone who has more, but is doing less?


    for all you bible study class members..

    (New International Version)
    Luke 11:33

    No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth it in a secret place, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light.

    Matthew 5:16
    In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.


    So, my question is...

    Are you putting your light under a bushel?
     

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