Green a Warm Color?

Discussion in 'Art Teachers' started by Crzy_ArtTeacher, Jan 14, 2010.

  1. Crzy_ArtTeacher

    Crzy_ArtTeacher Comrade

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    So I was fortunate enough to get another project funded through Donors Choose, and I ordered art display cards for my room.

    One of the display cards sets is about colors, and one card specifically about the Warm colors. On this card they show a range of Red, oranges, yellows,..... and Green. I guess I missed that in college because this is the FIRST time I've ever come across Green as a warm color.

    Am I missing something here?:confused:
     
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  3. mmswm

    mmswm Moderator

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    I'm not an artist, but I always thought green was on the opposite side of the color wheel from red. I would think that would make it a "cool" color. :confused::dunno:
     
  4. Securis

    Securis Cohort

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    Green, as in perfect yellow + blue = green? From my understanding it's a cool color but I always have taught that yellow-green and red-violet could go either way depending on what their neighbor colors happened to be. In that way, yeah "green" could be a warm color but otherwise, I'd have to check to verify the resource.
     
  5. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    One devoutly hopes the card was mispacked.
     
  6. Samothrace

    Samothrace Cohort

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    Green is cool! :) But I kind of do the same thing about yellow green, and red violet. Sometimes I describe yellow green as a warmer cool color, and the opposite for red violet..being a cooler warm color. My older kids seem to understand this.


    Well, in a similar notion..I'm not sure if any of you have the book How To Teach Art to Children. They have a labeled color wheel with the primary in the middle like a pie chart, and all the tertiary/intermediate colors around the outside. I guess I missed the memo about violet red, orange red, orange yellow, and green blue being colors. (These are listed next to red orange, yellow orange, blue green etc.) :dizzy:
     
  7. Securis

    Securis Cohort

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    Look up the manufacturer. I'll call them and set them straight.
     
  8. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    Perhaps they're greenhorns?
     
  9. Securis

    Securis Cohort

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    Or perhaps they were not allowed art when they were in school due to budget cuts.
     
  10. Samothrace

    Samothrace Cohort

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    yeah I would want my money back for something with wrong information!
     
  11. Crzy_ArtTeacher

    Crzy_ArtTeacher Comrade

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    It's Dick Blick of all companies. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume it's yellow-green. Securis you gave me a good laugh on that :)
     
  12. Grover

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    Green is as warm as it is cool. From an oil-painter's standpoint, yellow+black = green, putting it pretty firmly on the warm side. The whole warm/cool thing is just a convention anyway, it's not as though it describes anything objective. As a painter, I'm accustomed to talking about 'cool reds' and 'warm blues', but it's just another way to describe desaturating via complements.
     
  13. Securis

    Securis Cohort

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    But as an elementary school age child who has very little understanding of conventions, creating some delineations is a good starting point for them to later arrive where you are. I totally agree with the way you describe those colors but that's only practical information for a painter with two tons of experience. A child may be able to make those leaps in understanding but not as a group.
     
  14. hatima

    hatima Devotee

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    I thought green was a cool color. I have always seen it presented as cool. The bluer the green the cooler it is, the yellower the warmer. I'm not an artist and did not have art in school...budget cuts.
     
  15. hatima

    hatima Devotee

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    Grover, thank you for that perspective the yellow and black thing never occurred to me. On a side not reminds me of my favorite brown, yellow+purple.
     
  16. Grover

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    Well, I'm not big on the whole tempera-paint additive color theory thing anyway- I think one of the reasons kids don't do color well is that this is what they are taught, and with the kinds of materials they are generally given it just makes a mess. The desaturation model is just a better model, why not start with it? Without it, no one is going to be able mix the colors they want anyway. As for groups of kids understanding color, I've had pretty good success with this. The standard color wheel approach with tempera tends to yield either mud or bright colors not found in nature- which many kids find a real impediment to painting. I know I did.
     
  17. Securis

    Securis Cohort

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    Interesting thought. What's the lesson plan you'd use? How do you package it to get their interest? Even though I do not focus on product very much, what will the final outcome be?
     
  18. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Could depend on the green? There are cool, bluish reds, afterall...
     
  19. Samothrace

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    The yellow and violet should actually yield gray.

    and this is more specific to Grover. You seem to be talking down to the idea of elementary art and a child's way of exploring art and learning about it, or I might just be reading your comments in the wrong way.
     
  20. blindteacher

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    I was always taught that red, orange, and yellow are warm colors. Blue, purple, and green are cool colors. Red is the warmest of the warm and blue is the coolest of the cool. Yellow and green are the most neutral because they're in the middle of the spectrum.
     
  21. Grover

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    I always got to color the long way, through blob-drawing and value work. Once you start seeing objects as arrangements of values, you can start introducing 'emotional color'. That is, you forget completely about what color an object 'is' and render it as values of a color that says something about it, or it's role in your painting. This gives a good foundation for understanding why certain colors work together, and what effects different combinations have, both optically and emotionally. By getting away from the (false) notion of 'accurate color representation' that kids generally assume, they are then able to experiment with color much more freely- and at that point you start teaching complements and desaturation. Obviously, this is not a one-day process, but if kids are working with art a few hours a week, they can cover this ground in a semester and have a pretty solid grounding in basic rendering. I've done this with kids as young as third grade pretty effectively (but they did art a lot as part of their social studies and literacy programs, as well as doing art 'for it's own sake'. Because of all the opportunities for application, formal technical instruction was sparse).
     
  22. Grover

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    You are- I've always taught in full-on social-constructivist settings in which art is integrated into the rest of the curriculum. I see it as fundamentally another tool of expression, of 'constructing one's own meaning', and as such I think it's as important to provide basic technical knowledge in art as it is in writing. I think of this as 'graphic literacy', having the tools to understand and create visual images.
    A lot of kids have the same fears about making art that they have about reading or writing or math. In these other subjects we would never think (I hope) to overcome these fears by saying it doesn't matter if you say 'dog' when the letters say 'bed', or spell 'fish' 'ghoti', or say that '3+2=4'. Rather, we at least try to provide children with the confidence that comes with competence. I find the same works in art- kids want to be able render observed or imagined reality. They feel empowered when you give them the tools to do it.
     
  23. hatima

    hatima Devotee

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    I always get brown. If I mix a third color to the Yellow and Purple then it turns a hideous gray. If I don't have purple paint, I mix the red to the blue, then that with the yellow. If I add another color then I get gray, but as I type this I can understand why I should get gray. mmm! something to sleep on.
     
  24. Grover

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    Mixing paint is not the same as mixing colors. Your process works fine in, say, photoshop, if you pick the right kind of color space. Mixing paint, however, involves mixing actual chemical compounds which interact with each other in interesting mechanical ways, and sometimes even in chemical ways. Even the same pigments behave differently depending on what medium they are in, and on how they are ground. If you're using the cheap cr*p that elementary, middle school and usually even high-school art students are given, good luck!
    Really controlling color requires a lot of specific knowledge of pigments and media and technique- which is why I like to teach kids ways of rendering that yield great results without tight color control.
     
  25. hatima

    hatima Devotee

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    Thanks Grover that makes sense. Now I remember in elementary school I'd get the gray color. I got yelled at for doing so. I notice the quality of art supplies isn't good--mostly. However, usually the pastels-chalk or wax are good. I love doing art with the students and tried to do so once a week. I justified it by using art standards and incorporating literacy into the lesson.
     
  26. Grover

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    Pastels can be great because you mix color optically- that is, you put down the 'pure' color of whatever pastel you're using, and you mix by layering over some other pigment, and neither one is directly affected by the other. The color blending actually happens in the eye, where the different wavelengths of the exposed parts of the pigment strike and excite the rods and cones. Once you understand this, it's possible to create very dynamic effects and avoid muddiness, although they do require some care to avoid unwanted smearing. (wanted smearing, of course, is a different matter).
     

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