Gifted and ADHD?

Discussion in 'Special Education' started by thirdgradebuzz, Dec 13, 2010.

  1. thirdgradebuzz

    thirdgradebuzz Comrade

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    Dec 13, 2010

    What services can be provided to a gifted child that is likely ADHD? The child in question has straight As. However, he is very impulsive, hyperactive, and talks constantly as if run by a motor. He is a major distraction to other children. As his classroom teacher, I've tried everything-- behavior plans, isolation in a variety of settings, alternate behaviors, meeting with the guidance counselor. Nothing works, because in my opinion he is ADHD and just can't help it. The principal and his guardian agree. After a child study meeting, I was told by the school psychologist that even though we all know he needs medication, he can't get it because he has good grades. Is this true? According to the psychologist, I am expected to spend a great deal of my time accommodating a child that needs more services than I can give, at the expense of giving that attention to my other students. :help:
     
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  3. UVAgrl928

    UVAgrl928 Habitué

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    That's not true... the school can't give the child meds, but you can refer the parents to take their child to the pediatrician who can prescribe the medication. ADHD is a medical diagnosis, not a school diagnosis. I had a student last year that was ADHD (and highly medicated)... I put her up for the gifted program. We weren't able to give her an IEP because the ADHD was not affecting her academics (ie. her grades)... all that we could do was write up a behavior plan.

    It sounds like the child's parents are supportive and will probably be willing to go to the doctor.... I would recommend this.
     
  4. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    Dec 13, 2010

    Exactly what I was going to say.
     
  5. thirdgradebuzz

    thirdgradebuzz Comrade

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    Yes, I understand the process for having a child diagnosed/medicated for ADHD. That was my purpose for calling the Child Study Meeting-- in hopes that a doctor visit would be recommended by our school psychologist. I know that he cannot diagnose it, but he does often do an evaluation at the school-level of the child. However today he was not willing to do it. The reason he claimed the child could not get medication was because the pediatrician would not presbcribe medicine due to the child's good grades.
     
  6. thirdgradebuzz

    thirdgradebuzz Comrade

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    By an evaluation at the school level, I mean that the school psychologist will observe the child and write up a report about his opinion of the child, for the family to take to the doctor when they go. The teachers also complete a rating scale type form about the child's behaviors. This has been done several times for students I have taught in the past.
     
  7. mmswm

    mmswm Moderator

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    Dec 13, 2010

    In many states, if somebody at the school suggests that the child be taken to the doctor, the school can be held liable for any medical expenses incurred. For that reason, many schools are reluctant to recommend a visit to the doctor. I don't even want to go into my opinion on that kind of CYB behavior, but it exists and and is alive in well in far too many school districts.
     
  8. thirdgradebuzz

    thirdgradebuzz Comrade

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    Dec 13, 2010

    mmswm-- I definitely see your point there. The strange thing is, my school is typically not like that. My principal is usually the first to say that a child needs to go to the doctor if that is appropriate. Just in this case, the psychologist was adamant that it would do no good because the student makes straight A's.
     
  9. mopar

    mopar Multitudinous

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    Dec 13, 2010

    I think that what you are hearing is backlash of RtI because I am hearing similar things. A student can still get medication; however, if the student is passing, the district will not recommend an IEP or a case study.

    It is not legal! Grades are not the only factor. But in this economy, they just won't budge! So, I'm waiting for my family with a lawyer to really push the issue! Then we will see what happens.
     
  10. Lindager

    Lindager Companion

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    Dec 13, 2010

    Please tell the childs gaurdian to do something

    I am speaking as a parent now and not a teacher.

    I have 3 children and all of them probably have ADHD. My 2 oldest have been diagnosed and used a variety of medications. My daughter was in a mix of gifted and talented classses (she loves reading and writing) and special ed classes (she has a spatial learning difficulty, math was a nightmare). My oldest son has a variety of learning difficulties and had sp. ed.

    My youngest child is extremely bright, spoke early walked eary the whole thing he started out excellent in school, but as he got older he had more and more problems doing homework and sitting still and not talking. I tried several times to tell someone I thought he was ADHD and gifted, but no one would listen they all said he was too bright to have learning problems. He is 21 now and has dropped out of college and is doing nothing with his life. He has told me he has tried his friends ADHD meds and it made it so much easier to do school work he wished I had gotten him some when he was younger. He just got medical insurance this month so he is going to the Dr. next month to get a prescription.

    I have seen this with other bright but hyper kids as they get older it gets harder to keep up and pay attention so they never reach their potential. It can not hurt the child to try meds and a good psychiatrist who understands ADHD is a great resource.

    This is just my opinion as a Mom, who for a long time didn't want to admit all three of my children, myself, my brother and sister and several of my nieces and nephews all have ADHD (5 diagnosed)
     
  11. KinderCowgirl

    KinderCowgirl Phenom

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    Dec 14, 2010

    I've seen gifted kids with Asperger's, ADHD, dyslexia. It's a shame that some short-sighted people would base a BEHAVIORAL analysis on grades. The 2 are completely separate criteria. Here you can refer a child for either academics or behavior. Students can figure out how to get by academically-that's why learning disabilities can go years without being noticed. I think the pediatrician would consider the behaviors exhibited rather than the outcome of those behaviors.
     
  12. UVAgrl928

    UVAgrl928 Habitué

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    I think that the doctor will do the evaluation even without the psychologist's eval. And then the doctor will probably ask you to fill out a scale. It's probably still all the same stuff you are used to filling out, but in a different order. I hope that you are able to get this child the help that they need :)
     
  13. bros

    bros Phenom

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    Dec 14, 2010

    It is federal law that a school cannot recommend medication for a student. I would avoid talking about it in email or voicemail or anything that can be tracked if you do not want OCR on your school faster than lighting.

    What you are dealing with is a twice exceptional child. With 2e, the disability is masked (or the effect lessened) by the disability. Some may consider me on the fringe of 2e, I have multiple disabilities, maintain excellent grades, and as long as I have a laptop to type, my disabilities rarely come up.

    http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/2e.index.htm - info on 2e

    http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/add.index.htm - ADHD info

    Remember, grades are NOT a factor in giving someone an IEP
     
  14. thirdgradebuzz

    thirdgradebuzz Comrade

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    Dec 14, 2010

    Thank you all for your help and experiences.

    At the child study meeting, another "behavior/discipline plan" was created, and we will meet again a few weeks after Christmas to see what, if any, effect it is having on the child's behaviors.

    I did talk frankly with our school psychologist and let him know that I expected a referral to the doctor to be made at our next meeting if the plan is not successful. The guardian does not exactly understand the process of having a child diagnosed at the doctor.

    Although the guardian agrees with the hyperactivity and attention problems, she may not be agreeable to the doctor or medication-- she is his great-grandmother and from a generation where you could spank the problems out of children!! (And no that is not an implication that she is abusive. She just believes that strict discipline should maintain behavior.)
     
  15. bros

    bros Phenom

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    Dec 14, 2010

    It may be best to phrase it as.... asking the pediatrician to refer them to a doctor to test the student.

    They should go to a neuropsychologist if they have insurance, but you can't say that without making it so the school could possibly be on the hook.
     
  16. UVAgrl928

    UVAgrl928 Habitué

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    Dec 14, 2010

    Our question that we always ask when parents start mentioning concerns about hyperactivity is "Have you voiced these concerns to your pediatrician?" And when the response is no we say, "I would suggest that you discuss these concerns with your pediatrician. They should be able to advise you on what they think." As bros said, you need to be careful exactly what you say.
     
  17. Leatherette

    Leatherette Comrade

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    Dec 16, 2010

    What about 504 plans? Pulling kids out for SDI for being hyperactive does not do much for them, IMO. They are best off in the gen ed or gifted classroom with meds and/or a behavior plan, if needed.
     
  18. bros

    bros Phenom

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    Dec 17, 2010

    BIPs go with IEPs, not 504s.

    Just because the student has an IEP does not mean they have to receive remediation. They could be on a consultation IEP, where they just received accommodations (while still providing the protection of an IEP)
     
  19. mopar

    mopar Multitudinous

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    Dec 18, 2010

    Students can still be in gifted classes with an IEP. It does not mean they must have a different setting or classes. It just gives them the support that they need in these classes.
     
  20. bros

    bros Phenom

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    Dec 18, 2010

    This is so right.

    I was excluded from all gifted testing when I was in elementary school because of my IEP, so I missed out on all of that (I would have probably just qualified for the classes). During HS, we had to fight tooth and nail in order for me to be placed in AP classes and honors classes. Their argument was essentially "you have an IEP why should the smart teachers have to put up with you"
     

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