Getting a job is impossible

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by chiilo, Aug 9, 2012.

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  1. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Aug 10, 2012

    AWESOME post, giraffe!:thumb:
     
  2. Rebecca1122

    Rebecca1122 Comrade

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    Aug 10, 2012

    I am pretty sure we have the same home state from reading some of your other posts and while it sucks that it is so tough there, I appreciate having gone to college in a state that has a tough market. Being told from basically day one in college that there are no jobs and you will have to work your butt off to make connections and land a position was valuable. It never came as a surprise to me that the job hunt was going to be difficult.

    I wonder if this is the case with universities in other states (or maybe it was just mine)?

    OP- it sounds like you are pretty drained. I think I would call it quits for this year if I were you and look at some of the suggestions that have been presented. Try to get involved in something, anything, at a local school, revamp your cover letter/resume, and next year really hit it hard by going in person to schools etc. Can you work your daycare shifts to be available after school one or two days a week? You could get involved in volunteering for an after school program and get to know people at the school that way.
     
  3. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

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    In my area principals cannot hire until they have interviewed three people for the job. In hard to fill vacancies, this can take a long, long time. One teacher was a shoo-in, had everything our school needed and wanted, but we couldn't offer her the job until a third person was interviewed. She had to be given an interim position at the start of the year, which does not require the three-person minimum. Once there, she could hope to have the job offered the following year without the red tape.

    I totally get what toot is saying because it happens here all the time. I got my job because I knew someone. Now, I knew someone because I subbed for years in a different school. I was an active volunteer in my dds' schools. I had my resume hand-delivered by an employee of that school. I got called for an interview before the position was officially posted. Two other people in that school (one was student teaching and one was a long-term sub) weren't offered the job.

    I probably would have never had it if I hadn't had a stack of resumes in my car when the teacher asked me for one. But that doesn't mean I wasn't the best out of the lot.

    I worked hard for that opportunity and ended up being the first one out of my graduating class to get a job. I planned ahead, subbing before I even went for my certification. Some could say that I got my job after only a week past graduation. But some could also say that I was "looking" for a job for four years.
     
  4. tootgravytrain

    tootgravytrain Comrade

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    Aug 10, 2012

    Good - tell people here I'm not totally crazy.........yet! hahahahahaa

    We all work hard for our jobs and that's what frosts my cake is when the playing field isn't fair. I know I wasn't the best for some jobs and for others, I was clearly the best and didn't get them.

    As far as an "in," yea, I played that game FINALLY after 19 years, and it was a total accident!

    I went to pick up my daughters from a previous marriage in a neighboring town and my ex is married to a prison guard who'd already been here awhile, he knew my situation of losing my job, and he said "Hey, check out the prison - they're always hiring teachers." And to be honest I never thought about that!

    He has some pull here because he's been the top union guy for the prison guard's union for a long time and still is. He didn't go to the education people nor the personnel director and say "Hire this guy or else I'll make your lives hell." But he did put me in touch with the personel director who arranged a tour for me and to meet the principal and assistant principal.

    Hang with me - I know this is boring but there's a bit of a moral here............

    This was in the summer when I did this. I didn't get interviewed until October that year, then back in November that year for another. Meanwhile I took an 11th hour crap job working for 1st year teacher wages (after 19 years of teaching) 50 miles away while I played this game).

    I more or less forgot about it until March of the next year, when they called to interview me at the OTHER neighboring prison. Third interview finally! I distinctly remember being cocky as hell, confident, and let the guns roar. The deputy warden said "sounds like you know a little about our system." And I said "This being my third interview, I damned well should!" hahahahahaah Then the principal said "Well, we need teachers!" And I said, "Here I am - HIRE me, damnit!" hahahahahaha

    Couple weeks later they hired me.

    So I am not sure in the end what my so-called "in" or connection was worth because hell, 9-10 months is a long time. I was ready to go into anything at that point. Education or not, it didn't matter. I never stopped looking and being interviewed.

    And you gotta remember too that teaching "on the inside" isn't exactly jobs that people knock down the doors to get, and no one sure as hell goes to college to become a prison educator!

    Truth is, what my ex-wife's husband told me was something I really should have thought of myself. I guess it was so obvious it went right over my head.
     
  5. tootgravytrain

    tootgravytrain Comrade

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    Oh, incidentally in relation to the above story - the principal who finally hired me is the principal of our and the neighboring prison. What's funny is when they last interviewed me at the other prison, they ended up hiring me at the one they originally interviewed at! hahahahaha

    Again, you that are looking for teaching jobs, check them out. I'm telling you they're the best kept secret in education.

    Now, if you think they're "pseudo-teacher" jobs where they hire just anyone who is willing to do it, it DID used to be that way. No more. That ended way before I got here.

    We are all certified and monitored by the Ohio Department of Education, must play by the same "rules" as those in "normal" public schools in terms of education, continuing education, etc and etc.

    The pay? Well, I felt like I won the lottery after making state minimum the year before, but I'd say it's in the upper 2/3 of Ohio's public schools - better than most but not as good as some.
     
  6. dgpiaffeteach

    dgpiaffeteach Aficionado

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    Aug 10, 2012

    toot-what area of OH are you in?
     
  7. tootgravytrain

    tootgravytrain Comrade

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    Aug 10, 2012

    Somewhere between the Ohio River and Lake Erie.........hahahahahahahahaha

    Are you in Ohio? I just sent you a Private Message if you want to check it.
     
  8. dgpiaffeteach

    dgpiaffeteach Aficionado

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    Aug 10, 2012

    :lol::lol: Got it!
     
  9. tootgravytrain

    tootgravytrain Comrade

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    Aug 10, 2012

    Sent one back.
     
  10. Momma5

    Momma5 Rookie

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    Are you applying only at public schools? Have you considered working in a private/Catholic school/charter school. I have been certified for 2 years and I'm also a few years older then you. I had to get a second degree just to get certified. I only got one interview my last year but then decided to stay at home. The current job I got for this school year is a year long maternity leave position. It's at a Catholic school, the pay isn't good, but it's experiece. I got this interview and my last by sending out my resume cold to pretty much every private school in my area and ajoining areas.

    I'm in a state where there has been a freeze for years now. There is even a freeze on the sub list too. I subbed once this year at a Catholic school. I have a baby I have been home with, so subbing just does not work for me. Just keep sending resumes out randomly. It worked for me.

    People told me too that I needed to go get my cert. in special ed to get a job and I know a ton of people who did that, all have jobs and are on FB whining daily about their jobs. I could never do that bc I know all the paper work involved in special ed is just NOT for me.
     
  11. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Aug 10, 2012

    As of today, 107 people on this forum have gotten jobs this year.
     
  12. Jlyn07

    Jlyn07 Comrade

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    Aug 10, 2012

    I worked in a daycare for 2 years then worked as a TA for 2 years before getting a full-time position. Sometimes you just have to put in time somewhere to get experience. Some may say that daycare isn't helpful but it got me interviews for private school PreK & K jobs. The TA position introduced me to the school district and I met a ton of wonderful contacts. In the end though, I ended up getting hired at a school where I knew no one and had only applied to once but having the experience of teaching in different environments helped me become a better teacher.

    Good luck!
     
  13. Peachyness

    Peachyness Virtuoso

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    Aug 10, 2012

    Hey OP, here's an idea. What if you keep your full time job, but look into volunteering after school at different schools in Seattle. You can do maybe M, W, F (so that you don't get too burned out) and do one school on M, another on W, and another on F. Call around and see if there are afterschool programs or if teachers/admins need a hand after school in preparing lesson plans.

    How does that sound?
     
  14. chiilo

    chiilo Rookie

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    My mental state is this: :dizzy::help::mad: I'm having panic attacks to the point i'm barely eating.

    Therefore I'm going to step away from pursuing teaching for this school year and i'm going to take the time to really think about what direction I want to move forward in my life.

    Maybe finances will have settled by next year, I can reduce time at the daycare, and I can hit the schools hard with possible subbing or other involvement.

    Right now I just have to step away and think.
     
  15. Mathemagician

    Mathemagician Groupie

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    Aug 10, 2012

    Clap back, clap your hands back.
     
  16. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Aug 10, 2012

    ??????? I'm sorry, but you lost me completely on that one.

    OP, why don't you take today as a pity party day.. indulge in some ice cream and step away from the computer. Get out and see a movie, do something unrelated to the job search.

    Then tomorrow, I want you to give this one last shot. Email your cover letter and resume to every single public, private, charter and religious school within an hour's drive.

    If that doesn't pan out, then look at other options. But don't give up before giving it this one last shot.
     
  17. Mathemagician

    Mathemagician Groupie

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    Aug 10, 2012

    Better put, just do a little dance...do a little jig...shake it off.
     
  18. chiilo

    chiilo Rookie

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    Aug 10, 2012

    I also wanted to apologize, I just realized I hadn't scrolled far enough down and there is a job seekers forum where I should have posted this thread.
     
  19. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Aug 10, 2012

    Oh, no sweat.

    Most of us go to "all posts" in the top right hand corner. I never even know what forum a thread is on.
     
  20. giraffe326

    giraffe326 Virtuoso

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    Aug 10, 2012

    Thanks :blush:
     
  21. giraffe326

    giraffe326 Virtuoso

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    Oh, I knew it was going to be hard! That is why I decided to relocate. I did NOT think it would be this hard to even land an interview after having several years of very successful experience and amazing recommendations.
     
  22. NS317453

    NS317453 Rookie

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    Aug 10, 2012

    I can completely relate to the original poster's plight.

    I graduated in December 2011 with a Masters in Seondary Education for Social Studies and began subbing for ten districts i March. I had glowing recommendations, a 3.92 GPA, etc... and have had little luck. I live in central New York.

    I am 26 years old. I worked full-time in a factory throughout college to take care of my wife and my two young daughters. I now work in the factory at night and sub during the day. Because my wife has no work experience or degree (stay at home mom from 20 - 26), I'm the sole provider. Our income is low, but we get by well enough by renting a cheap apartment above my parent's home.

    I apply to every job in a 70 mile radius, as we rely on the cheap rent from our arrangement and I'm used to commuting. My wife wants to move, she's fed up. She waited for me to finish college and now that I'm out, and burdened with debt, she has no more patience. My marriage is dissolving by the day because of money.

    I've applied to 15 or 16 schools and have had one interview. Only 15 people received interviews out of 326 applicants. There was three positions. Three weeks have passed since my interview. I tried to inquire about my status and was told that they were still in the process. I spoke to the vice principal today and was told that they have "had a lot of positions to fill" and that "there haven't been any recent board meetings" and that they would get in touch. I saw online that the next meeting's proposed agenda includes approving their three chosen candidates. It frustrates me to no end that he could not simply be honest and upfront. A local school had an opening and the superintendent told my mom, who works in the district, that I would get an interview. Yet a month's gone by and I haven't been called.

    I have no idea what to do. I barely have time to network, as I've done nothing but work for the past six years (factory and college, now factory and subbing). I apply to everything and never hear back from anyone. I've been out of college for eight months and my wife says that I wasted my time and money. I'm starting to really believe her.
     
  23. teach42

    teach42 Comrade

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    Aug 10, 2012

    ^^16 applications is nowhere near enough, especially over the course of 8 months. Social studies is one of the most saturated areas. What was your undergrad major?
     
  24. NS317453

    NS317453 Rookie

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    Aug 10, 2012

    Major: US History
    Minor: Philosophy

    I've applied to every full-time position I could find within a 2 hr drive. I can't relocate at the moment and feel like I'm trapped.

    **Edit** Misread the question as "What was your undergrad minor?"
     
  25. teach42

    teach42 Comrade

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    Aug 10, 2012

    Are you applying to private and charter schools? I would suggest sending your resume to all schools nearby, even if they don't have an opening posted. At least they'll have it on hand if a position becomes available. While you're subbing, try to network. Considering you're subbing for 10 districts, you have a lot of opportunity to do that. Even if it's just getting acquainted with the teachers there, at least they might let you know about available positions at the school that might not be posted yet. If you can, try to get certified in another area to make yourself more marketable. In many states, all you have to do is take the Praxis. I guess you don't have time to volunteer to help with extracurricular activities or coaching but if you can do that, even better. That's more experience for you and shows that you're dedicated. Social studies is an extremely competitive area so do all you can to give yourself an edge.

    One more thing, how is your cover letter and resume? Has anyone taken a look at them? If not, you can post it on the job seekers forum to get some feedback.
     
  26. NS317453

    NS317453 Rookie

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    I've been largely focused on public schools in my area. I need to look into charters and other types of schools. Can you just send a resume out to a district? Most district applications require official transripts, letters of recommendation, etc... I try to send a hard copy of my portfolio whenever possible, but that usually winds up costing me 40+ dollars for materials, ink, etc... It has materials for every grade level, covering all possible classes (Two full unit plans Grade 8 and 11, and sample lessons for 7, 9,10, Econ, and Participation in Gov). It's 180 pages. I've spent $300+ dollars in the past eight months just on portfolios.

    Getting another certification can be a pain in NY. You need to take 30 credit hours, tests, etc... I have no idea how I'd fit in or afford more classes. I know very little about sports, so coaching is definitely out of the question.

    I'll try posting my resume and cover letter to the job seeker forum. I also signed up for SchoolSpring, so I can try to apply out of state. I'm unsure how well that will go though, given the need to apply for additional state certifications (NY is reciprocal with many states, but I believe you still have to apply for each state).
     
  27. teach42

    teach42 Comrade

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    Whoa:eek:, you actually send a 180 page portfolio? That is a waste of money and is ridiculous. I wonder if that is hurting you because I'm not sure how I would feel as an employer if I received someone's entire portfolio. The resume would probably be entirely lost in there. Moreover, some schools already receive hundreds of applications for a single position so they don't need another hundred pages.

    All you need for most jobs is a well-written cover letter and resume unless they specify other things. No one is going to look at a 180 page portfolio let alone have time for it. There's a reason why resumes must be so short. Employers should be able to just look at a sheet of paper and have a good idea of your background. Some people will bring their portfolio to interviews and refer to it as needed but that's about the only use for it.

    Sorry for the long rant about portfolios but I'm a bit in shock.

    You definitely need to look at charter schools and private schools, especially charter though. There are a bunch of charter schools in NY that need teachers. It's normally in a high need field but not always.

    I don't think you'll be in time to get a job in another state this year without certification. If you want to look at other states, I would suggest targeting private schools or schools that do not require certification. I'm not a fan of applying through SchoolSpring for various reasons. You can use it to search for jobs though and apply directly to the school (just make sure they don't actually use SchoolSpring). There's an option to look at other jobs on there that don't use it. Then go to their website, find an email address (usually principal or HR), and email them your cover letter and resume. Make sure to have polished ones first. I wouldn't apply for out-of-state certification unless I was going to target a specific state. Otherwise, I wait to get the job first and then apply knowing that there is probably less of a chance I would get an interview without it. That is just my strategy when looking for jobs and it has worked for me. Otherwise, it would cost a lot of money applying for certification in random states.

    Anyhow, keep looking for jobs even after the school year starts as an LTS position might pop up mid-year.
     
  28. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Here is what I want you to do:

    This morning, I want you to do a google search of every public school within an hour's drive. Then I want you to email your cover letter and resume to EVERY SINGLE principal within that radius. Do NOT consider whether or not the school has an opening, send to EVERY principal within that range. Read that last sentence again, it's important.

    Next, google charter schools within that radius and do the same.

    Next, religious schools. Ditto.

    Finally, private schools. Ditto again.

    But wait, you're not done. Your certification is grades 7-12, right??? So now I want you to repeat the same process with middle schools. In terms of the private and religious schools, that might mean elementary schools, since many of them include grades 7 and 8.

    I don't care about religious affiliation. I don't care about school philiosophy. I particularly don't care whether or not they're showing an opening. Somewhere within that hour's radius, a teacher is going to resign this weekend. When it happens, I want that principal to find your resume in his or her email in box on Monday morning.

    I'm pretty much talking about spending the entire day blitzing the area with your resume. But do it, OK??? Unless you're attending a wedding or a funeral, this pretty much takes precedence over everything else.
     
  29. Shanoo

    Shanoo Habitué

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    In my school district, principals can't let candidates know before the board approves their choice. So, if the board hasn't met yet, they may not be at liberty to tell candidates - successful or otherwise.

    Keep blanketing the area with your resume. Go in and talk to administration. Things will come around.
     
  30. tootgravytrain

    tootgravytrain Comrade

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    Aug 11, 2012

    Some of the best advice that woke me up in my young, after college idealistic days, came from the Judge I worked for for 10 years after my first RIF, and he knew the language because his wife was a career teacher. "You'll never get a job in teaching around here because with your credentials, you're seen as a THREAT!"

    I thought he was full of it, because after all, all I wanted to do was teach history, coach football, have a quiet career and not bother anyone. Then it hit my like a brick in the forehead - "threat" means many things, and I think this relates to our friend NS317453 above.

    You "appear" to be highly intelligent. That's a threat to not only administration, but likely also to fellow co-teachers. If it's a "do the least amount of work to get by" district, they don't want anyone rocking the boat. They don't want you raising the bar for everyone because, after all, that would involve WORK!

    I was given those talkings-to many times. Hell, my brother in his first principal job was told by his superintendent, "You CARE too much!" Care too much? What the hell is THAT supposed to mean?

    Isn't it odd how sometimes great grades and ambition to really be a great teacher-educator can backfire so easily? It's not odd, it's tragic, and education has lost some brilliant people because of complacency and being mediocre and just good enough is good enough.

    I was given that "talking to" at the prison, but it didn't take. The nice thing is that no one really cares how hard or how little you work. I choose the former, because the latter is BORING!
     
  31. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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  32. Jlyn07

    Jlyn07 Comrade

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    Are you on OLAS? There are 2 full time social studies positions posted for the central area. I'm not sure where you are but check into it to see if you are close enough to them & apply! Email the principal, send a hard copy of your resume and cover letter - and then follow up!

    Good luck. It will be hard but it is possible. Oh, and I agree, don't send your whole portfolio. I've only had a few interviews where they have looked at it, they definitely don't want to see it before they even see you.
     
  33. stephenpe

    stephenpe Connoisseur

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    I really feel bad for these younger ones coming in now and struggling to find their place. Many have some real debt and the jobs are tough to find. When I showed up back in the late 70s looking for a PE job fate intervened. I figured I would get the job in the district I student taught in. But a friend in a district just north found me a job (math) and the turned into PE the next year. I tried to get into the district of my home but not hard. I thought I had the PE job in my little home town but they gave it to a minority (Bahamian) who stayed one year. With the benefit of a age and experience it is easy to see I got the best job of all and have had it for 25+ years. If the PTB would let teachers teach with good Admins. to supervise, our schools would be (in general) much better and happier places. Better for children, too.
     
  34. TamiJ

    TamiJ Virtuoso

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    Difficult? Yes. Impossible? No. I would not suggest giving up on something you truly want. It will require patience and time, but if you really want it, it will happen.
     
  35. chiilo

    chiilo Rookie

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    I think i'm just jaded with the whole profession. When I was working at a childcare program inside a school once, I observed a music teacher who every. single. session just put in a CD on his computer and sat there while the kids sang along to it. I'm talking zero instruction. Every once and awhile, he'd play a musical video for the kids.

    He got sick for a few weeks and a sub replaced him, and she taught the kids how to read simple sheet music, and worked with them on beats, pace, tone, rhythm, and more. Yet she can't find a permanent position anywhere. (I spoke with her.) She was amazing!!! Yet some guy who has been at this school for years can pop a CD in for 30 minutes every day.

    I also sat quietly in the teacher's lounge during my internship and listened to teachers RIP APART other teachers behind their back, and make sick jokes about the kids they work with. But this is the "norm." If you speak out? You're gone or you're on you're own. A teacher who had just gotten a new box of math manipulatives didn't want to open the new box because "it would be wasting them" on her current class which she wasn't fond of. What a dumb reason.

    It kills me.:eek:
     
  36. tootgravytrain

    tootgravytrain Comrade

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    Been there - done that. Sad isn't it?
     
  37. chiilo

    chiilo Rookie

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    It's very sad.

    I've had my "off" days, of course, where i'm not feeling well and it's easier to just have the kids do free choice, but that was never something I would do every day.

    I'm so willing to give my classroom 100% effort and time, with a focus on academics and making learning exciting and interesting. I don't get caught up in school politics and I mostly keep to myself. I would love to be able to teach one day, but for now i'm hunkering down and am going to re-evaluate my strengths and weaknesses for the next time I try to enter the job hunt.
     
  38. Mathemagician

    Mathemagician Groupie

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    Also, I would definitely not mention this. It is okay to be introverted, but most schools I've interviewed at are HUGE on collaboration so keeping to yourself would not be a real option.
     
  39. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Agreed.
     
  40. chiilo

    chiilo Rookie

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    Aug 11, 2012

    This is why I think it's good for me to take this time to think about whether I should be a teacher. Maybe i'm just not cut out for it.
     
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