GA cheating scandal: teachers sentenced

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by Caesar753, Apr 14, 2015.

  1. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,468
    Likes Received:
    2,485

    Apr 14, 2015

  2.  
  3. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,985
    Likes Received:
    435

    Apr 14, 2015

    Read it quickly, but seems fair to me. Justice has prevailed.
     
  4. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2013
    Messages:
    4,252
    Likes Received:
    791

    Apr 14, 2015

    Justice will prevail when NCLB is repealed and high stakes testing at the elementary level ends completely. Not before.
     
  5. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,489
    Likes Received:
    1,396

    Apr 14, 2015

    This is for a different discussion, but I'm not convinced that prison time for non violent offenders is always called for.

    However, according to the article, the judge was willing to offer leniency to those employees who were willing to take responsibility for their actions.

    No one chose to take him up on his offer.
     
  6. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,489
    Likes Received:
    1,396

    Apr 14, 2015

    I agree with your sentiment, but it's still not an excuse for their actions.
     
  7. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,985
    Likes Received:
    435

    Apr 14, 2015

    We don't have high stakes testing in California, so not sure about this.
     
  8. YoungTeacherGuy

    YoungTeacherGuy Phenom

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Messages:
    4,232
    Likes Received:
    1,174

    Apr 14, 2015

    I'm confused by your comment. Maybe you misunderstood the question?

    We used to have the CST (California Standards Tests) which have now been replaced by the CAASPP (California Assessment of Student Performance & Progress).

    This year's numbers will be used as baseline scores since last year's exams were field tests and we didn't receive scores.
     
  9. bros

    bros Phenom

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    4,105
    Likes Received:
    68

    Apr 14, 2015

    Two teachers actually took him up on his offer. The rest didn't.
     
  10. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    Messages:
    3,283
    Likes Received:
    1,641

    Apr 14, 2015

    You're right.

    But these guys are hardly heroic martyrs. Cheating is cheating is cheating.
     
  11. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    4,395
    Likes Received:
    7

    Apr 14, 2015

    Quote of the day:

    "These kids were passed on and passed on and had no chance to begin with, because of where they live, who their parents were, who their-just their situation. The only chance they had was the school. When you can't read, and you're passed on and passed on...All I want is for some of these people to take some responsibility-but they refuse."

    I love this judge. I don't know a thing about him, other than this trial, but I love him.

    Let's not forget-this is not a victimless, "white collar" crime. Our previous threads have focused on the teachers, and how "all they did" was change a few answers. But let's think about the impact of passing students, inflating scores, and what that will do to those students' lives.

    Bingo. Following orders or not, they knew what they were doing was wrong enough to wear gloves to avoid fingerprints, transport tests in a cooler, and have changing scores pizza parties where they could cheat in private.
     
  12. vickilyn

    vickilyn Magnifico

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    9,679
    Likes Received:
    2,419

    Apr 14, 2015

    All these teachers had to do was accept responsibility for their actions to escape prison time. In most criminal trials, the convicted get to apologize to the wronged victims or their family, in order to possibly receive a lighter sentence. The judge was honest in his offer and follow through. I will not address NCLB - for teachers, these individuals were either terribly arrogant, misinformed, naive, or out of touch with the consequences of their actions. The judge did a great job, and these felons chose to follow another path.
     
  13. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,985
    Likes Received:
    435

    Apr 14, 2015

    I'm saying there was nothing high stakes about the old CST or from what I see the new version. My job as a classroom teacher is not on the line in anyway. I got no pay raises or reprimands in anyway for how my class achieved on those tests.

    There was no real consequences for students who did really well or struggled.

    Any stress that students felt were put on them inappropriately by teachers, admin, or parents.

    Grade3 and others have made the case that teachers in other states are being fired regularly over poor results, kids are vomiting over the stress, kids are being held back by the thousands for not passing...etc. this is not what is happening in California, at least not around where I work(Riverside/San Bernardino).

    Where I work, something like 70% of 3rd graders would be retained for "not passing" the old CST...umh, yeah, nope they all went to 4th. right now, with "no high stakes" basic is considered not passing in CA, I suspect if we go to "real" high stakes, all of a sudden basic becomes passing...etc.

    At the elementary level, I am not seeing the "high stakes" part, that many others say is happening in other states.
     
  14. YoungTeacherGuy

    YoungTeacherGuy Phenom

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Messages:
    4,232
    Likes Received:
    1,174

    Apr 14, 2015

    Being at the administrative level has caused me to see things through a different lens. Are you familiar with Academic Performance Index & Annual Yearly Progress (API/APY)? What about districts being in Program Improvement (PI) status? There are negative ramifications (at the district & site levels) that come with poor test scores--such as visitations from the Alternative Governance Board (AGB). However, you're completely correct in that teacher in CA won't lose their jobs/take a pay cut/get demoted over bad scores.
     
  15. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,985
    Likes Received:
    435

    Apr 14, 2015

    Yes, we are in P3 I believe(maybe its P2). Again, nothing really high stakes about it, at least when you hear how others talk about other parts of the country.

    County does its walk throughs..blah, blah, blah. they told our leadership this year how impressed they were, how "it is all coming together, everything we have been doing", we laughed, it is such a joke.

    First time the county or who ever it was that came to our school, one of our teachers ask them point blank, "what is your turn around success rate", they said something like 10%, respect lost in first 5 minutes.

    We were supposed to have state mandated training SR472 blah blah blah, they were too busy, so they let our district(the one failing) put on the training itself...same training as always.

    Again, I just don't see this crazy high stakes "stuff" in elementary, not for the teachers or the students.

    The only stress I have over being an effective teacher, is the personal stress I put on myself or loyalty to the principal who allows me my teaching freedom.

    Edit: maybe the stress of a principal not personally liking me and having total control over my evaluation. being able to make so much of the evaluation on personal, subjective, opinions and disregard classroom culture and effectiveness.
     
  16. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    4,395
    Likes Received:
    7

    Apr 14, 2015

    The bottom line is...everyone has stress. Everyone has pressure.

    Some choose to deal with that pressure by cheating. Others don't. Those who do, will get caught eventually.
     
  17. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,271
    Likes Received:
    446

    Apr 14, 2015

    Justice has prevailed. These teachers are finally off the street. Seven years in prison is more than first degree assault, child pornography, first degree kidnapping, sexual assault of a minor, manslaughter with a firearm and many other heinous crimes.

    This is truly justice for someone who changes answers on a scan sheet.
     
  18. vickilyn

    vickilyn Magnifico

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    9,679
    Likes Received:
    2,419

    Apr 14, 2015

    The single question would be, why not own up to changing the answers and stay out of prison? They certainly played a part in their own fate. :2cents:
     
  19. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    4,395
    Likes Received:
    7

    Apr 14, 2015

    And how do those changed answers affect kids?

    This crime is not victimless. It's not as simple as just changing a few answers. These kids don't get a chance to redo their education.
     
  20. vickilyn

    vickilyn Magnifico

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    9,679
    Likes Received:
    2,419

    Apr 14, 2015

    Agreed. :thumb:
     
  21. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,985
    Likes Received:
    435

    Apr 14, 2015

    Yep, typical, this is just about what every single criminal tries to do.
     
  22. blazer

    blazer Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,631
    Likes Received:
    347

    Apr 16, 2015

    I notice that all the sentenced teachers are black and the judge white, and it is Georgia. Does anyone else think that the sentences seemed very harsh?
     
  23. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    4,395
    Likes Received:
    7

    Apr 16, 2015

    Race has nothing to do with the harshness, or lack thereof, of the sentences.
     
  24. 3Sons

    3Sons Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2007
    Messages:
    2,000
    Likes Received:
    160

    Apr 16, 2015

    Hmm....

    So let's see if I understand your argument:

    1) Racism exists
    2) Racism exists in Georgia
    3) This judge is a different race than the defendants
    4) Therefore, this particular judge is racist and exaggerated the sentences because of it

    You realize you're accusing him of ethics malfeasance and civil rights violations such that if it were proven true, he would very likely be removed from his job and possibly disbarred?

    If you're even going to bring something like that up, you need something more than, "Hey, maybe the judge is racist". You need evidence. Research his past decisions, his personal life, his decisions referenced against other judges. Otherwise, it's irresponsible and you come very close to libel.
     
  25. blazer

    blazer Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,631
    Likes Received:
    347

    Apr 16, 2015

    Lucky I live abroad then isn't it?

    Didn't this cross anyone elses's mind? You prison population does seem to be very ethnically biased.

    Do you think white teachers would have gotr the same sentences. Maybe it wasn't the judge, he only looks at the evidence put before him. Evidence provided by the police dept! What was the ethnic make up of the jury?
     
  26. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,985
    Likes Received:
    435

    Apr 16, 2015

    I did notice how all the people in this case were in positions of power regardless of ethnicity.
     
  27. vateacher757

    vateacher757 Cohort

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2007
    Messages:
    596
    Likes Received:
    2

    Apr 16, 2015

    Not saying this situation was racist at all BUT to the bolded please don't think for a moment that what you posted does NOT happen.....there are all sorts if injustices against others made by those who hold the power.

    Also to the glaring fact that these educators were black, charged as they were and punished as they were it does give an impression that it could have had racial overtones because please don't think for a moment that this only happens with black people and black kids.
     
  28. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    4,395
    Likes Received:
    7

    Apr 16, 2015

    This is going to go south quickly.
     
  29. stephenpe

    stephenpe Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Messages:
    1,922
    Likes Received:
    145

    Apr 16, 2015

    Blazer, your probably have noticed a few policeman of lighter skins shooting darker skinned Americans seemingly without cause recently. Even a fraternity doing some really nasty song, too. c
    And even noticed some really nasty things directed at the POTUS. But that is all policy disagreement.
    But move along, nothing to see here.
    USA USA USA ;)
     
  30. vickilyn

    vickilyn Magnifico

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    9,679
    Likes Received:
    2,419

    Apr 16, 2015

    I love the pun!
     
  31. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    5,770
    Likes Received:
    1,000

    Apr 16, 2015

    Yeah, no racism here at all. :rofl:
     
  32. stephenpe

    stephenpe Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Messages:
    1,922
    Likes Received:
    145

    Apr 16, 2015

    dammmm you beat me to it. I was just about to note that
     
  33. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    4,330
    Likes Received:
    568

    Apr 16, 2015

    I agree completely.

    However, how would it REALLY have changed the outcome for the kids? In my experience, and from reading posts on this board, those kids would have been passed along regardless of their scores. After all, the harm from being retained is far worse than the harm of being in tenth grade and unable to read.
     
  34. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    4,330
    Likes Received:
    568

    Apr 16, 2015

    Wow.

    I've typed, deleted and typed over my response to you. I'll keep most of my comments to myself. But my respect for you just plummeted.
     
  35. vateacher757

    vateacher757 Cohort

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2007
    Messages:
    596
    Likes Received:
    2

    Apr 16, 2015

    and why would your respect for Blazer plummet because he/she pointed out the obvious?

    It does not make what they did less wrong but lets not think no one else is doing what they did or similar.

    Many do it an probably don't even realize they are doing students a disservice by "giving" them the passing grade even if it is a "D" they passed and moved on to the next grade....in my opinion and education is more than just "passing" and it seems the power that be are more focused on "passing" the kids and "graduating" them than actually educating them and I feel this is all across the board.

    "we' know it is a problem "they" know it is a problem now what are "we" and "they" going to do about it......convicting and sentencing these educators does nothing for the REAL PROBLEM in education period!

    kwim?
     
  36. Jerseygirlteach

    Jerseygirlteach Groupie

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,439
    Likes Received:
    0

    Apr 16, 2015

    Good point. If the crime was passing them along when they needed remediation, then every administrator in my former school district deserves a lengthy prison sentence. Let's convict every one of them that called for angry meetings with teachers that were failing too many students (that usually meant more than two or three). How many years should the superintendent get for demanding that teachers change their grades to passing after the parents complained?

    If we're going to "think about the impact of passing students, inflating scores, and what that will do to those students' lives", then I'm curious how many of the people here that are happy these teachers are going to jail, would also support my former administrators getting locked up giving that they also changed grades and allowed students that should have failed to pass.

    What difference is there between administrators who demand passing grades for students to pass them along and the GA teachers who erased some bubbles and accomplished the same exact thing?
     
  37. TnKinder

    TnKinder Companion

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2013
    Messages:
    230
    Likes Received:
    28

    Apr 16, 2015

    :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: YES.
     
  38. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    4,330
    Likes Received:
    568

    Apr 17, 2015

    No, I don't know what you mean.

    You're discussing a trend in education - dumbing down expectations and not holding children/parents accountable.

    How is that related to the post I referenced? Where a poster, from outside of the US, insinuates that criminals were given a harsh sentence because the white judge was racist?
     
  39. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    4,330
    Likes Received:
    568

    Apr 17, 2015


    I agree. This is what I've been saying here, and at work, for years. It is an ethics issue.

    I'm grateful this case made national news. Because I'll be sure to reference it when I refuse to change grades so Johnny can graduate on time, Bobby can remain on the football team, Sally can maintain her 4.0 unweighted average.
     
  40. blazer

    blazer Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,631
    Likes Received:
    347

    Apr 17, 2015

    Yes I have. I have just got back from 2 weeks in Chicago and every morning on the news there were stories of at least 2 new shooting and about half of these were cops shooting suspects. Plus lots of video footage of cops shooting people the vast majority of which being white cops and black suspects.
     
  41. stephenpe

    stephenpe Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Messages:
    1,922
    Likes Received:
    145

    Apr 17, 2015

    Blazer is like an alien come to earth and is just pointing out what he sees and the obvious. For better or worse America is out there for the world to see. Blame it on 24/7 media with a microscope on anything that will sell or get people interested. Blazer, I still respect you obviously and maybe America needs to quit being so arrogant and listen to other points of view, especially regarding our culture. Btw this thread is doomed for the dungeon because of its controversy.
     

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. JR.englishmaster,
  2. Backroads
Total: 468 (members: 3, guests: 445, robots: 20)
test