FORCED to resign. Now what?

Discussion in 'New Teachers' started by g.r.i.t.s.teach, Mar 4, 2010.

  1. g.r.i.t.s.teach

    g.r.i.t.s.teach Rookie

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    Mar 4, 2010

    I finally have the guts to start a thread about this. Probably should have before I was forced to resign, but anyway, I need advice and I have received mixed messages from everyone.

    This was my FIRST year teaching. It was a special ed job. It was a horrible situation where I was hired right before school started. They needed someone asap. The teacher before me left without warning. The principal did not want me, but got stuck with me. He told me early on in the school year he was going to fire me. He finally did. I was forced to resign from the teaching position in February.

    I moved states for this job. So all my education background is in the former state (let's say state A). I want to stay in this state (let's say state B) because of various reasons including my family lives here and it's just easier not to move again. I am certified to teach in both states.

    I went to a career fair in February and put down my previous job. I said I resigned. Most principals pretty much turned the other way. The job shows all this technology and teaching programs I learned in State B that was not used in State A and; therefore, I thought principals would like that better. I also thought it was a good idea to put it down since it was a special education teaching position and my field experiences were in general education (K-5). I was a special ed assistant teacher while in school though.

    So, the question is, do I put this on applications/resumes or leave it off? And, if I leave it off, wouldn't the district find out through my retirement plan I had a previous teaching job? A PRINCIPAL actual told me to leave it off, but that was after going to the career fair. Family members do not want me to lie. I have a very good reason for not working August through February if a principal asked.

    Technically I do not have one year of experience, but the applications say round up. There is a question regarding resigning in lieu of being fired. Do I lie and say no? The superintendent said if anyone contacted him, he would say I left because of medical reasons. But applications say I have to put immediate supervisor down. Does this mean I have to put the principal? He HATED me. And he would put horrible things down on the reference form. I do have three faculty members I worked with everyday that would be excellent references.

    I just don't know what to do. I have a sub app in my purse that includes the former job, but I don't want to turn it in if I decide to apply without that former job on my teaching application! But then that same sub application asks about my retirement plan. Since I already have one, would I just sign up for a different one?

    Any suggestions/thoughts would be appreciated. If you need any clarifications let me know. I tried to not give away too much information...but I might have not given enough either.
     
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  3. Peachyness

    Peachyness Virtuoso

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    Mar 4, 2010

    I was forced to resign 2 years ago, so I know how you feel.

    For your question in regards to the application asking if you resigned in order to avoid being fired, my union told me to answer no, that I CHOSE to resign.

    In regards to leaving this job off, I say no, you need to have this on your application and resume. They will find out and may use the fact that you purposefully left a job out and let you go.

    I was able to get two more jobs after my fiasco. I thought no one would ever hire me again, but they did, twice. Both principals loved me and couldn't understand why the P non-renewed me (they knew the whole ordeal, one I told, the other already knew because this P took over my old principal's job, the one who non-renewed me).

    Good luck!
     
  4. g.r.i.t.s.teach

    g.r.i.t.s.teach Rookie

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    Mar 5, 2010

    Peachyness,

    So, you used your old principal as a reference and explained to future employers that you already knew he would not recommend you for employment and would say you are below average on the reference form?

    Thank you about the CHOSE to resign versus FORCED. Makes sense. I chose to resign so I wouldn't be fired. Thank you. Feel much better about that for apps!
     
  5. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

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    Mar 5, 2010

    I've never been forced to resign from a teaching position, but I have been fired unfairly from a job before.

    I went through many of the same emotions you are expressing; what do I say about my previous job? how do I explain the situation professionally without seeming to "bad mouth" my former boss, but still let future employers know the termination was not justified?

    Through several discussions with a job counselor, we decided to do the following:
    On applications, I listed the job and simply wrote "Will Discuss" under Reason for Leaving.
    When asked about this by prospective employers, I simply stated I was terminated for purchasing a printer cartridge from a non-preferred vendor (I was the Purchasing Manager for a small hospital). Employers were able to draw their own conclusions about the termination when told it was over a printer cartridge.
    I also called the Personnel Director at the hospital and asked specifically what type of reference I would be given by them. She told me the only information they could legally release were my dates of employment. She also suggested I list her as my Supervisor rather than the Administrator that fired me.

    The idea is to develop a very short, simple statement to explain why you "chose" to resign from this previous position. If you don't make a big deal out of it, most prospective employers won't either.

    Think about what you want to say, write it down, practice it, then edit it to shorten it down to the most basic information necessary. I know it is rough right now, but this is just a bump in the road. You'll get hired again and, most likely, will have a much better principal that appreciates your talents and the skills you can bring to the position. :thumb:
     
  6. Peachyness

    Peachyness Virtuoso

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    No, I did not use my old principal, the one who non-renewed me as a reference. I chose other people as my references. My coworkers, team leaders, BTSA mentors, etc. I did not say anything when I was interviewed and they never asked. The only reason why my other principal knew was he asked AFTER I had been hired. He didn't understand why I resigned and I told him the truth. He understood and we moved on.
     
  7. g.r.i.t.s.teach

    g.r.i.t.s.teach Rookie

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    Mar 5, 2010

    So my "last immediate supervisor" does not necessarily have to be my principal? I could see if the HR coordinator wouldn't mind filling in that spot?

    I will totally be calling HR tomorrow. I did hear about if called, legally all they could say was dates of employment.

    And for reference forms, I will just have to hope they do not realize my previous principal did not fill one out.

    The PRINCIPAL (a relative) who told me not to put the job down said that because the first person principals call is your previous principal. She made it seem like they could say more than dates of employment.

    Thank you. I will definitely call HR and see what principals can say when they are called.

    Thanks.
     
  8. Proud2BATeacher

    Proud2BATeacher Phenom

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    Mar 5, 2010

    Even though I was rehired by my last principal and got glowing evaluations from her, I did not use her as a reference, as I knew she didn't like me and had it in for me (she was removed from my school by the school board after only 2 years:p, but she left a huge mess behind). My Assistant Principal loved me and wrote me a glowing letter of reference and let me use her as a phone contact too.:D

    Good luck in your job hunt!
     
  9. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

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    Mar 5, 2010

    The lack of a reference letter from your former P isn't a big deal, especially if you have references from other staff at the school. Teachers you worked with or the AP would be good sources for that.

    Most employers will probably figure out from your "Will Discuss" comment and no reference from the P that the two of you had a personality conflict. They may or may not ask a couple of questions about that, but this happens in every school district, so it shouldn't be a big problem. Have your comment about the previous job prepared and well rehearsed and stick to that without saying anything negative about the P.
     
  10. mrachelle87

    mrachelle87 Fanatic

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    Mar 5, 2010

    Be honest...but vague. You choose to resign. You can say for personal reasons. You can say because the school was not a good fit for your teaching style. You can say just because you needed to take care of personal business.

    List a co teacher or a grade chair--not the principal. Give their home number if they agree. The reason is that in my area of USA, most principals are hard to contact in the summer. Since most schools that haven't, but probably will, don't have a secretary during the summer or anyone answering the phone. A fellow teacher that likes you would be better.
     
  11. g.r.i.t.s.teach

    g.r.i.t.s.teach Rookie

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    Mar 5, 2010


    I really like the co-teacher or grade chair idea. The grade chair was technically "my immediate supervisor".

    THANK YOU EVERYONE! This is all I have been thinking about since I was forced to resign...excuse me, chose to resign.
     
  12. beatlebug731

    beatlebug731 Comrade

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    Mar 5, 2010

    Just out of curiosity, why did the P hire you full time if they were just going to fire you anyway? To me, it would've made more sense to hire you as a long term sub. It's nothing against you, I just don't understand why they would hire you and say that you were going to get fired. Another question I would've asked myself is why did this teacher leave at the last minute. Did this P maybe have a track record??
     
  13. Peachyness

    Peachyness Virtuoso

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    Or on a temp contract, which is what I was on for two years. Yeah, I don't get what the P is thinking too?
     
  14. g.r.i.t.s.teach

    g.r.i.t.s.teach Rookie

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    Mar 6, 2010

    HR made him. Simple as that. She loved me. He wanted someone else who would not take the job. She forced him and I realized that in October. Yes, lately, I have heard of track records that are not too good. But again, didn't know this coming in.
     
  15. EZLN1

    EZLN1 Companion

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    Mar 10, 2010

    I was in a somewhat similar position last year. I got hired for a full time position after subbing for a number of weeks. P made it clear that it would most likely be a 1 year thing, but I went ahead with the job with the off chance that I could impress the school enough to be re-hired. Over the course of the months, my relationship with my P went a bit sour. We never had any real confrontations about anything, but a lot of things were promised that the P never completed with regards to resources and help, and it took P a long time to just come out and let me know they were letting me go. P was just shady about how they handled things, and I never bothered to ask them if I could use them as a reference. But I did ask one of the AP's, and a fellow teacher who were much more in contact with me throughout the year and could attest to my work. I'm sure I could have had P as a reference, but I didnt want someone talking about my work when they had no idea about what I did.

    As for letting prospective employees know, I learned the hard way. At a job interview, P asked me why I was not going back to work at said school. I said something along the lines of "they decided not to rehire me". WRONG ANSWER. P made a snide remark about how I must have done a bad job since they are letting me go:mad:
    I should have said that they let me go due to budget cuts (which was what my P said to me though that was a lie).
     
  16. MissEducation

    MissEducation Companion

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    Mar 10, 2010

    I don't know about this in regards to a teaching situation (my first year, too) but I was once fired unfairly (for being falsely accused of stealing!) and forced to resign once in a situation in which I was not completely blameless but not completely guilty, either. So, I know how you feel...and it stinks. But you will overcome it. Hang in there!
     
  17. timsterino

    timsterino Comrade

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    Mar 12, 2010

    How is someone forced to resign? What is the alternative? Getting fired? Either way you can not use them as a reference so what is the advantage to resigning.

    I understand if you do not want to answer. I am just curious.
     
  18. Peachyness

    Peachyness Virtuoso

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    Mar 12, 2010

    Have you ever gone through this, personally? If not, it's hard to understand how difficult of a decision it is, to either go through non-reelection or resign.

    Going through non-reelection puts a black mark on your teaching career. You will always have to mark on an application that you were non-reelected. If you resign, there could be many reasons why you had to resign: health issues, moving to a new town, job relocation, wanting to stay home with your children, etc. You can come up with a reason. This will not put a black mark on you as many people resign for many different reasons.

    Allowing non-reelection to go through will damage your career. I know my district won't bother with you if you were non-reelected.

    Problem is, if you resign, you can't apply for unemployment.
     
  19. timsterino

    timsterino Comrade

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    Mar 13, 2010

    Calm down please. There is no reason to get testy. I was just curious and I was not trying to attack anyone. The thing I am confused about is that this seems to be a case of "your screwed if you do and you are screwed if you don't." The OP said they were forced to resign HOWEVER they are still having problems finding a job with the resignation on their shoulder. My question is then why resign if the results are the same but you can not collect unemployment?
     
  20. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Mar 13, 2010

    Actually, Tim, I've wondered that myself.

    I think the explanation is that the alternative is still no job, but having to spend the rest of your career explaining that you were fired. And apparently the question "Have you ever been fired?" is on every application. Resigning lets you put your own spin on the way things transpired.

    So it seems to be a matter of weighing priorities: that unemployment check against the harm it will do in future job searches.
     
  21. g.r.i.t.s.teach

    g.r.i.t.s.teach Rookie

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    Mar 14, 2010

    Wow, yes, I was forced to resign otherwise I would have been fired. I had those two choices. On every application it asks have you ever been fired. No matter what job I apply to in the future, the recruiter will see that first before ever interviewing me. It does put a black mark on my teaching career, but being fired puts a black mark on any career. If I did not want to teach anymore, I could just say I realized teaching was not for me and I resigned.

    The district superintendent said he would say I resigned for health reasons, if ever contacted.

    Although, I really do want to teach and it is hard to even get a daily sub position.
     
  22. Peachyness

    Peachyness Virtuoso

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    Mar 14, 2010

    If you felt that I was being testy with you throughout my whole post, I apologize. I guess my question was not worded correctly. A lot of people ask, how can you be forced to resign? it's not that we want to resign, we really are forced to.

    A lot of people in my district were non-reelected due to budget issues. MANY of those teachers just went through the non-reelection process, but I did a lot of research and found that resigning would be less of a hassle for me, career wise. Being put in this position is very hard. There are two options, both of which have its pros and cons. One who is put into this situation needs to sit down and really think what will be their best option. I've been through it, many others have been through it. It's stressful and embarrassing, that's for sure.
     
  23. katrinkakat

    katrinkakat Connoisseur

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    True Peachy! I met a new teacher at my school who was non-reelected so we have that in common! Same type of story, good reviews until the year they decide they don't need you and then they try really hard to find things to put in your file. This is a wonderful teacher, too. I wish they would be honest and tell teachers the reason they do what they do instead of playing games. I found out I will NOT be pink slipped or non reelected this year! YAY! It's very stressful, that's for sure! If you've never been through it, you are LUCKY!!
     
  24. Peachyness

    Peachyness Virtuoso

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    Yay! I'm glad you will be fine for next year. I'm classified now, so it works a little different for me. My principal said, as of now, if there are no disasters, then I will have a job for next year. My job is based on whether they have money or not. My money is based on certain funding. So, so far so good.
     
  25. tonysam

    tonysam Comrade

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    Aug 16, 2010

    The ONLY reasons districts force you to resign is so you can't collect unemployment and save money on hearings. NEVER resign. The way the economy is going, you won't get hired anyway. There is NO advantage to resigning or being forced to resign or leaving before the end of your contract because most districts will ask THAT question too, whether you were asked or forced to resign, and many will ask if you were denied tenure or nonrenewed. Taking a resignation in lieu of a dismissal is worse than being "fired"; at least you can try and fight a termination if you have "tenure" or if the district violated some federal law. Resigning is an admission you did something wrong. The fact one can get UI under most circumstances when he or she is fired is PROOF there is no "misconduct" on the teacher's part.

    Why should MY career be destroyed because of an idiot principal violating federal FMLA law and state administrative law, and, when the district found out she screwed up, decided to rig my hearing and lie and slander me and have the illegal dismissal upheld? Why should my career be ruined over what the DISTRICT did?
     
  26. tonysam

    tonysam Comrade

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    Aug 16, 2010

    They will find out why you left; you are saying it is okay to lie why you resigned and thus risk your license, which can be suspended or even revoked for lying on an application. Trust me--districts WILL find out from your previous principal why you left and how good you were. If you resign and put it on an application, school district principals are no more likely to call you in for an interview than if you were "fired."

    There is NO advantage to leaving before the end of your contract without sufficient notice--none. It's called breaching a contract, and that's a big sin in education.
     
  27. tonysam

    tonysam Comrade

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    Aug 17, 2010

    You can't leave your previous job off. That's the bottom line. If by some remote chance you are hired by another school district, they need to know of your teaching experience so you can be placed on the salary scale.

    There is no way around this. Most likely you will never teach in a public school district anywhere in the U.S. again, unless by chance you have some "in" with a district.

    The mistake was to resign in lieu of a non-renewal or dismissal which it is, though it isn't called that because you weren't "tenured." Big mistake.
     
  28. tonysam

    tonysam Comrade

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    Aug 18, 2010

    Gee whiz--they actually asked to take you back? That's unusual because you almost can never work again in public education once you have resigned in lieu of being terminated, non-renewed, etc.

    I am finding out I am blackballed throughout the system because of what an incompetent principal did to me.
     
  29. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    Aug 18, 2010

    In fact I think there are other members of A to Z who have found jobs as teachers after being forced to resign.
     
  30. Peachyness

    Peachyness Virtuoso

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    Yes, they took me back because the P who forced me to resign was fired. They knew I was a good teacher, but couldn't do anything about his decision. The year after he was fired, a math resource position opened up and they hired me. In fact, my new P told the District office yesterday to make sure that if they hire a new teacher (due to increase in enrollment) to hire me next!! :)

    Oh, and the following year after I resigned I was easily able to get a job in a nearby district. They never bothered to ask why I left (although I did talk to the P later on about the prior situation who was very understanding).

    One thing I did was I met with the superintendent when this whole mess started with my P. She backed me up and even wrote me a letter of recommendation. Can you meet with the higher ups and see if you can get some help?
     
  31. John Lee

    John Lee Groupie

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    Aug 20, 2010

    I'm not at all one who nitpicks every little detail, but when you say Will Discuss, obviously it sounds like there is a story behind it (which there is). But doesn't that draw (unwanted) attention to the reason for leaving?

    Can you just write "resignation" and leave it at that? Maybe I'm naive about it; is resigning from a position that bad a thing?
     
  32. webmistress

    webmistress Devotee

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    Unfortunately in public education it seems to be. It's really demoralizing. Even if you are dangerously ill with medical records and cannot perform your duties...and too new so they won't grant you a medical leave or temporary leave, or emergency leave...I don't know what else they expect you to do.

    I guess when you sign a teacher contract the unforeseen tragedies that come up in life don't apply to you.

    This district takes it further and report you to the state and petition to have your license revoked! WOW. So you would never be able to sub, tutor, teach in any capacity in any public school, anywhere. Disgraceful.

    I fought and thanks to a certain powerful person in the district, I won my case before it reached that point. Other teachers did not succeed and their licenses have been revoked. Not suspended, but taken away forever. :eek:hmy::mad:

    Maybe if it were not for the whole "contract" thing we'd be treated like other professionals who do not get banned from the field for leaving a position.
    The fact that I had never read or signed a contract didn't matter according to education state law. Once the board approved me to work, that means I was bound by the contract though I had yet to read it or sign it.

    But anyway, as long as the OP has her license, she should be able to get hired in other districts.
     
  33. Irissa

    Irissa Cohort

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    Aug 20, 2010

    Resignations with complicated answers can't really be left that way. The employers always want to know why you resigned. So saying will discuss might raise some eyebrows but might still get you a job interview. Putting your reason in writing doesn't always get you one and can often send you to the bottom of the list.
     
  34. Irissa

    Irissa Cohort

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    Aug 20, 2010

    I also have to add it depends on WHERE you apply as to who you can use for your reference. I was required by my county to have the last principal as my reference regardless of what she thought of me or what any other principal /supervisor thought of me. She was the only one they would officially accept.

    If your last principal wasn't a good review you could write a letter to the superintendent requesting to be allowed to apply for jobs anyway and you could attach any additional references to that.

    Non-renewal isn't the end of the world there are jobs afterwords its just harder to find them. I've knows 6 people over the years who have been non-renewed and found jobs again. I have also known a few who haven't found any around here but maybe they did when they moved home.
     
  35. Peachyness

    Peachyness Virtuoso

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    I know many people who have resigned for various reasons (baby, health, moving, spouse getting transferred to a new location, etc). No one thought it was demoralizing. You gotta do what you gotta do!

    I also wanted to address what you said about losing your teaching credential/certification. Do you mean people who resigned mid year, breaking their contract? I never heard of anyone losing their credential when they resigned, as of last day of their contract. I CAN see this happening if you did it mid year though.
    Could you clarify, please?
     
  36. webmistress

    webmistress Devotee

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    Aug 21, 2010

    Peachy,
    I agree, resigning is a part of life, I meant it's the way the district and state treat you that's demoralizing. Yes I'm talking about those who resigned before the year is up, though they experienced unfortunate circumstances that made it impossible to stick the year out.
    Legally, the state can take your license, but it's still completely absurd in my opinion. (I don't buy the whole protecting kids thing or anything like that.)

    I've only seen careers destroyed like this in the teaching field though. I haven't ever known a doctor's, or nurse's license to be revoked because they broke a (time period) contract with a certain hospital. I've asked others if they are familiar with any other field that treats people this way, they're not. Sans the military of course, but we know that's different.

    I'd love to be treated like other professionals in other fields.
    When my sister got fed up with being a Pharmacist at WalMart she gave her notice, didn't have to suffer through the rest of the year and compromise her health and sanity, and she moved on with her life and career with no black marks on her record.
     
  37. Kate Change

    Kate Change Companion

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    Aug 28, 2010

    In my district being terminated is an immidiate blackball. It's game over. You're looking at a long commute or private/charter schools, because if you are terminated they will never hire you again. I would definately resign before being terminated. We would have to move if I were terminated where as being given the offer to resign simply prevents you from being blackballed.
     
  38. brejohnson88

    brejohnson88 Comrade

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    Aug 29, 2010

    I have never had to experience this since its my first year (fingers crossing) but, I think I would rather choose to resign than be terminated. Not only do I think termination looks bad on any resume, but also I think I would feel bad for getting terminated rather than resigning. I guess it really depends on the person and the situation as well.
     
  39. tonysam

    tonysam Comrade

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    Resigning is an "admission of guilt," to whatever bogus charge a principal levels at you.

    I, too, was fired almost four years ago because HR put her up to it, and then, when the district realized it screwed up, rigged my hearing. I am now destitute and cannot get back into teaching.
     
  40. tonysam

    tonysam Comrade

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    Dec 16, 2011

    Not true. Most applications will ask if you resigned in lieu of dismissal. A firing is a whole lot better, provided you haven't committed a criminal offense, because you haven't admitted to anything.

    According to you, I should have taken a piddling 10k settlement, which the lawyer would have gotten 60 percent of it and Uncle Sam a big chunk of the rest and be cheated out of UI. No thanks. The principal and HR broke the law--I did not.
     
  41. tonysam

    tonysam Comrade

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    Dec 16, 2011

    A RIF is not the same thing as a nonrenewal. Nonrenewal is basically a firing of a person without "tenure." Your principal can basically kill your career and not give a reason.

    I fought my termination, but unfortunately my union sabotaged me and didn't tell me of my rights.
     

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