Fired for giving a kid a zero!

Discussion in 'General Education' started by blazer, Sep 26, 2018.

  1. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    Well, if the lowest a student can ever get is a 50%, then it is inflating grades. Any time points are allocated for non-merit, grades are being inflated. Kind of like when every student get an additional 10% from say, a 62% to a 72%, to raise the average 10%.

    And I think getting an automatic 50% for writing your name is the easiest number of points you can ever get. Imagine if you got an automatic 800/1,600 on the SAT just for putting your name.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
  2. mathmagic

    mathmagic Enthusiast

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    Hate to break it to you, but the lowest possible score is 200/600 for each section. ;) (I know, different situation, and essentially it just makes 200 a '0', but still had to point it out :p )
     
  3. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    I already knew that. That isn’t new to me, lol.

    My point is that you get half of ALL possible points just for writing your name, which is ludicrous.
     
  4. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Fanatic

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    He says such nonsense. "In the real world you are able to be late more than not." Really? We had a great teacher whose contract wasn't renewed after being late less than 1/3 of the days that year. I had an important transaction I had to get done at a bank one time and I showed up one minute after closing time. I wasn't let into the bank. Try showing up late for an interview or turning your taxes in late. Will there be a penalty? You bet! I know I am preaching to the choir here, but this guy is just wrong.
     
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  5. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

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    Yeah after 8 hours of listening to him talk down to us in a hot crowded auditorium, it really left a bad taste in my mouth. A couple of staff members tried some of his ideas last year (regarding redos and retakes and so on), and they all stopped this year because it was too much of a headache and students were just taking advantage of it. You don't even want to know how much they paid him to come.....
     
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  6. otterpop

    otterpop Aficionado

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    I imagine!
    Yes, that argument makes no sense. If I pay my bills late, I get a late fee. Work turned in late should receive a "late fee" as well.
     
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  7. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    To the above three respondents, now you all be careful with that logic stuff. You’re making too much sense and it might confuse some people, lol!
     
  8. 3Sons

    3Sons Connoisseur

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    Sep 30, 2018

    200/800, actually.

    This used to make sense, when there was a guessing "penalty". You would get 200 points for your name and a blank paper, but if you put your name and got all the questions WRONG, you'd get (theoretically) a zero. They've eliminated the guessing "penalty", however.

    * it was never actually a penalty in reality, though. It was always designed simply to not reward pure guessing by subtracting a quarter point for a wrong answer on a four-choice multiple choice question.

    Honestly, to a lot of people this is a pretty pedantic discussion which makes teachers look petty. If a kid gets a zero they flunk. If a kid gets a fifty they flunk. Why don't you argue for allowing negative scores -- if they do badly enough, it takes away from their NEXT test?
     
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  9. mathmagic

    mathmagic Enthusiast

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    I don't agree with you that it's pedantic, regardless of which viewpoint one has.

    Overall, a student with a 0 at the end of the year flunks, and a student with a 50 at the end of the year flunks. But think of it more in the mindset of individual assignments. Randomly, take 10 assignments equally weighted (simply for ease), where one kid gets a 0 for two assignments and gets an 80% average on the others, vs. the 50 for two assignments and an 80% average on others. One student ends up with a 64% overall. The other ends up with a 74% overall. Obviously an "out there" example, but decisions like this do affect overall grades, not to mention the mindset that kids have. As educators, that's exactly the discussion we need to be (respectfully) having.

    (And if you were referring at all with the pedantic-ness to the SAT scores - I was just having a little bit of fun messing with mathprof in the moment, nothing more.)
     
  10. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    I must admit, it was pretty funny and almost a counterexample. I thought it was clever.
     
  11. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

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    The idea of a minimum 50% policy is to ensure that kids have a chance of bringing their grades up.
     
  12. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Fanatic

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    I understand teachers wanting children to bring their grades up. There are better ways to do this than providing free points for doing no work. Here are some that are better although I would not necessarily advocate them. They do have their problems.

    Don't make homework worth so much. If homework isn't worth so much, 1 or 2 zeroes do not allow a student to be in a pit they are trapped in for the rest of the term.

    Allow late work for some credit. Don't love late work, but might be better than no work.

    Don't have large projects handed in without the teacher checking on it somewhere in the process. A 3 week project, might have deadlines for outlines, rough drafts, etc.

    This quarter I have a student who has often chosen to do no homework despite consequences. He finally is doing his homework. As my homework grade is not that large of a percent, he is able to bring his grade into passing despite some 0s on early homework grades.
     
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  13. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    Great ideas, by the way! I do quite a few of these myself. However, I drop the three lowest homework assignments each semester because I recognize that students have extenuating circumstances outside of their control sometimes.

    At my school, the grade weights are essentially decided by the department chair and I can’t lower my homework/classwork category any lower than 25%, I’m afraid, which sucks. I wish I could lower it to 5% or 10%... Luckily, though, I make all of my homework problem sets every year and so the students can’t use slader or something to look up the answers, but I still wish I could lower the homework category and increase the quiz (35%) and test (40%) categories more in kind.
     
  14. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

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    sometimes it is. If it is given the first grading period. But not if it is given every grading period.

    The same idea could be executed with a contract between the failing student and the teacher. Or by replacing one or two zeros with a summative assessment score.
     
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  15. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

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    What exactly are teachers supposed to do when admin does not like to see F's? I have students with missing assignments who will likely fail the Unit Test (dropping their grade even more) & a minimum 50 policy on some assignments might bring them up to a D-. I am frustrated by it BUT I don't want to deal with admin complaining about my gradebook.
     

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