Feeling Guilty (No sub took job)

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by Catcherman22, May 18, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. kpa1b2

    kpa1b2 Aficionado

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2002
    Messages:
    3,274
    Likes Received:
    38

    May 20, 2012

    I've been told that we have breaks through-out the year for personal business or needs too. I get that. But there are certain things that you just need to take off for.

    For me personally, it's easier to go to work then to write & plan for a sub. So I rarely use my days.
     
  2. MissCeliaB

    MissCeliaB Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    3,432
    Likes Received:
    603

    May 20, 2012

    We have sick days that we can use when we are sick. We also have Urgent Personal Days. Our principal reminds us that those are for urgent emergencies only, like waking up to a flooded house or something similar, not for shopping or relaxing. We are also expected not to be out for any reason before or after vacations or long weekends. Though not required, we are expected to bring doctors notes for those days if we miss, or if we miss on Fridays or Mondays near the end of the year.
     
  3. waterfall

    waterfall Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    6,156
    Likes Received:
    996

    May 20, 2012

    That's how our personal days are too. We're not allowed to just take them for fun. Honestly, I get it. We have tons and tons of days off throughout the year. Other professionals may get to use their days however they want, but those 5 or 10 days are literally the only days they get off for the entire year. We have two months of summer, two weeks of Christmas, days for Thanksgiving, a week of spring break, and my district even has an extra week long break the week of president's day.
     
  4. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,606
    Likes Received:
    2,714

    May 20, 2012

    It sure sounds that way.
     
  5. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,094
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 21, 2012

    I can understand the need for a personal day or a mental health day, but NOT if you are unable to get a sub for the day.

    I did take a personal day from my new job because my Spring Break came the week before my boys had their Spring Break, and they were due to visit me during their Break. I had to work that Monday (of their Spring Break), but I asked my P if I could take the next day off to spend with my boys, since they would be going back to their mother's house. She gave me the "OK" and I made sure I had a sub to cover. If I had not gotten a sub, I would not have taken the day off.

    I also had an "emergency day" one Monday, when my ostomy appliance broke down and I didn't have any replacements at my apartment. That meant I had to make a 70 mile trip home to fix the problem. I told the P what was happening and she told me to do what I needed to do. So I drove home, fixed the problem, and then drove back to school. I was gone for a total of 3 hours. My P didn't expect me back at ALL that day, but I had lunch duty and I made sure I was back by then.
     
  6. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,606
    Likes Received:
    2,714

    May 21, 2012

    If you handle your end and do what you're supposed to as far as putting in for a sub, I think that's enough. If a sub doesn't pick up the job, so be it. I can't force subs to pick up jobs, and I can't solve the problem of my school's bad reputation and low morale...so I shouldn't be punished by not being allowed to take my contractually permissible personal days. My personal days are my own, regardless of the sub situation.
     
  7. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,946
    Likes Received:
    4

    May 21, 2012

    I agree, Caesar.

    And when my administration stops pulling me from the classroom for this or that training when no subs are available (trainings and PDs because I accept so many extra roles for the school...unpaid), I'll come back and give this more thought.
     
  8. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,606
    Likes Received:
    2,714

    May 21, 2012

    And furthermore: If you want me to be a good teacher, even when I teach in a rough school with terrible morale and many other problems, then you're going to have to give me some of what I need. If I need a day off to sleep in and watch Maury and get Panera for lunch (my dream day off), if doing those things will help me de-stress a little so that I can return to school the next day and be the best possible teacher for my students, then that's what I need. Overworking teachers is not the way to ensure quality instruction.
     
  9. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,094
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 21, 2012

    We have different philosophies on this. It may be, in part, because I'm still a new teacher and feel I have to pay my dues, but it has to do with other things as well.

    My health, for one thing, has been the main reason I've missed work during the last 25 years. I've had 7 major surgeries and never did have enough "sick time" saved up to cover the entire time I was out, so "leave days" are like money to me and I believe in saving as many as possible.

    Also, although I have taken days off to take care of personal errands before, I can literally think of only ONE time that I took a day off just to do nothing but relax. It's just not something I do.

    Because of that, I would not take a personal day or a mental health day unless (a) it had been cleared by my P, and (b) I was certain my classes would be covered by a sub. Since I don't really NEED that day off, I will come in if no sub is available and maybe take a day off sometime later.

    If I'm sick, on the other hand, then I don't feel guilty about not coming in. Two weeks ago, my two youngest sons were very sick with the stomach virus going around. By Sunday, I had it as well. So I called my P at home to let her know I could not work on Monday and, most likely, would not be able to work on Tuesday either. I had also called my primary sub at home on Sunday afternoon, but he was already booked for Monday and I didn't know the numbers of any other subs. My P told me not to worry about that. The school would take care of it. She told me to just focus on getting myself better.

    I spent all day Monday in the E.R. getting fluids and medicine, so no, I didn't feel guilty about that because I wasn't capable of working that day or the next. On Wednesday, though, I was back at work.

    If other teachers want to take a personal day to relax, that's their business. If I make plans far enough in advance and I do have a substitute available, then I have no problem taking a day either. But if no sub is available, then - for me - my "personal day" can wait.
     
  10. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,946
    Likes Received:
    4

    May 21, 2012

    Just to clarify, a mental health day to me does not equate to a "day to relax". A mental health day is to protect your mental health. If I take one, it's a sick day...not a personal day.
     
  11. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,368
    Likes Received:
    540

    May 21, 2012

    This is completely compatible with my views except it is our business when another teacher misbehaves.

    When I taught at our district's lowest SES school, I noticed that the children were far more fragile than the students I work with now. The low SES students needed constancy and their caring teacher in order to make maximum progress.

    Teaching is not a factory job where anyone can take their place on the line. Bad things happen when a teacher sits at home getting paid while painting her nails. Besides causing harm to students, it demeans the profession.

    Teaching should be viewed as a profession, not just a job.





    Favorite Teacher Blogs:
    http://ed-is-life.blogspot.com/ and http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/Bridging-Differences/
     
  12. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    29,807
    Likes Received:
    1,171

    May 21, 2012

    Seems to me that the teacher who takes one planned day off is better serving the fragile student population than is the teacher who attempts to struggle through but is felled abruptly for half a week or more.

    If the teacher chooses to spend some time on that day lecturing his fellows on unprofessionalism, that is his business, though it shouldn't then surprise him to get some pushback about instancing the painting of nails.
     
  13. John Lee

    John Lee Groupie

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    64

    May 21, 2012

    I'm not attacking YOU here, but...
    I happen to work in two districts, and most of my work is in one district. In that district, I usually book assignments in-person... and basically, this happens in advance. That means that whenever the other district calls--I refuse. This is not me saying, "I don't want to work in x class today." This is me saying, I'm unavailable. If this happens 1, 2, or 10 times... I don't think it should have a bearing on me as a substitute in the latter district.

    I'm guaranteed nothing as a sub teacher. Yeah, they send the whole "reasonable assurance" letter. But that reasonable assurance doesn't guarantee anything (but occasional work). It's not guaranteeing that I'm able to pay all my bills that month. I have to do what I have to do. I have to find work myself. If it's through subbing in anohter district, or finding freelance work outside of teaching (i.e. construction, other job that I may work to supplement), that's what it is.

    Even if subs are turning down work just because they think it's going to be rough, or it's not their cup of tea... that shouldn't mean they should be canned. You are asking subs, who have college degrees and most with credentials (in this day/age), with an income level that qualifies for federal poverty levels, with no benefits, no tenure, no insurance--to take it or leave it? If teachers need "mental days", what about the sub taking proactive mental days, in refusing jobs that think will wear on them? It doesn't seem very considerate of the situation, to demand subs take on any/all jobs, good and bad. If the environment (to the sub) seems daunting, maybe out-of-control... and the regular classroom teacher is taking a day off for "mental health"--why should a sub teacher be forced to go into that environment?
     
  14. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,368
    Likes Received:
    540

    May 21, 2012

    If a teacher is sick, then that person should take a sick day. Do you disagree?



    Favorite Teacher Blogs:
    http://ed-is-life.blogspot.com/ and http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/Bridging-Differences/
     
  15. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Maven

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,418
    Likes Received:
    1,688

    May 21, 2012

    So if a teacher has the roughest class in the school and no sub will ever willingly take the class then he/she should never take a sick/personal day???
     
  16. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,094
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 21, 2012

    I don't view "personal days" to be the same as "misbehaving". There is a wide gulf between the two, in fact.

    As I said before, I took a "personal day" to spend some extra time with my boys. I didn't "have" to do that or even "need" to. I just wanted to and I made sure I had a sub to cover for me.

    I don't feel I was misbehaving or casting a poor reflection on the teaching profession at all by doing so. And, although I rarely take a day off just to do "nothing", I also wouldn't consider it un-professional to do so because I've worked many other jobs in different fields and I've known people at each one who did the same thing.
     
  17. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    29,807
    Likes Received:
    1,171

    May 21, 2012

    Interesting response, Tyler B. Are you angry?
     
  18. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,368
    Likes Received:
    540

    May 21, 2012

  19. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,946
    Likes Received:
    4

    May 21, 2012

    Just to be clear, I am no where close to agreement with you regarding personal days. :)

    I say (as does my district) that personal days (all two of them) are to be used for whatever reason a teacher chooses. You say that doing that is harmful to students and "misbehavior". Right?
     
  20. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,368
    Likes Received:
    540

    May 21, 2012

    JustMe, Your contract is different from ours. We can only use a personal day for personal duties that must be done during the school day. If I were to tell my principal that I was just taking a personal rest day, I'd get docked a day's pay. Taking a day just to relax is misbehavior in my district, and teachers who are caught are punished.

    There's no question that students, especially fragile children, are negatively affected by their teacher's absence.

    I don't pretend to know your teaching situation, and my comments should not be viewed as a personal criticism.




    Favorite Teacher Blogs:
    http://ed-is-life.blogspot.com/ and http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/Bridging-Differences/
     
  21. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    29,807
    Likes Received:
    1,171

    May 21, 2012

    This construction is reminiscent of a tag question, such as
    A tag question consists of a proposition for which the speaker/writer wants confirmation or disconfirmation plus a yes-no question that's appended or "tagged" on. It's normally the case that the proposition and the question differ in polarity - the proposition is positive and the tag is negative, as in (a), or the proposition is negative and the tag positive. A tag question in which the proposition and the question tag are both positive, however, is generally taken as ironic or confrontational:
    could very well be uttered by someone who is not happy about the purchase.

    Questions of the "Do you agree?" class show somewhat different but related patterns.
    Of these, (d) is a request for an opinion, and the opinion can be either positive or negative and (e) is a request for confirmation of a positive opinion. Example (f) is generally understood as an implicit directive to keep one's contrary opinion to oneself.

    (These examples also show that disagreeing and not agreeing are not necessarily the same thing.)
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2012
  22. DrivingPigeon

    DrivingPigeon Phenom

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Messages:
    4,212
    Likes Received:
    8

    May 21, 2012

    I miss my personal day. :( They took our only one away this year.

    In the past, I used my personal days for:
    -A wedding rehearsal. I was in my friend's wedding, which was 4 1/2 hours away, and the rehearsal was on a Friday at 4:00.
    -Another wedding rehearsal (same situation).
    -The Monday after the Super Bowl. I knew it would be a late night, and I wanted to welcome the Packers home. It was a big deal, trust me. ;)

    I loved having that one day that was for me to do as I please. I miss it. Most professions have vacation days that they choose. I can't choose mine, and the world doesn't revolve around a teacher's schedule.
     
  23. Kat53

    Kat53 Devotee

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    1,071
    Likes Received:
    12

    May 21, 2012

    Our personal and sick days are lumped into one bank, so it's really not an issue of whether it's personal or sick. When I call out (I don't require a sub) I usually just drop my P an email. If it's a personal situation, I will just say it's a personal situation. As long as I've cleared everything on my end and aren't abusing my days, I don't feel too guilty about taking a mental health day, or even a fun day.
    And, as long as I'm not abusing personal days and have everything set in place, I don't feel like it's my employers business to know why I'm out on days that I'm allotted by my contract.
     
  24. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,094
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 22, 2012

    Most professions may have vacations days they can choose, but they also work 12 months instead of 10 and don't have the same number of holidays and "break" days as teachers.

    As I've said before, I worked in healthcare for 13 years. In a hospital setting, there are NO holidays because people still get sick and/or injured. In our Purchasing dept., we did "close" the department for Thanksgiving Day and Christmas Day, but we usually worked both the day before AND the day after to make up for it.

    Also, employees earned a set number of Paid Time Off (PTO) hours per pay period. These accounted for both vacation and sick leave. The first hospital I worked for did not differentiate between the two; your PTO hours could be used for illness, personal errands or just a day to goof off (if you chose), but the number of hours earned were limited. For the first 5 years, they amounted to roughly two weeks (1 week for vacation and 1 week for sick leave). PTO hours DID accrue, up to 720 (which would be about 3 months worth), but the only way to get that many was to NOT use them for a number of years. The second hospital I worked gave employees roughly the same number of PTO hours, but DID "split" them into "vacation" and "sick" hours, and only "vacation" hours could be used for personal days. So an average employee would earn approximately 3 hours of "vacation time" every two weeks. That may sound like a lot, until you consider that, even when we "closed" the department for holidays, we had to use 8 hours of the "vacation time" to be paid for that day. Again, there were NO paid holidays at all, unless you used your vacation time.

    Also, some employers put restrictions on when vacation time can be used. My ex-SIL worked in an assisted-living home. She lived in PA and her family was in NC, so she always used one week of her leave time to drive down for a visit. However, she could NOT use ANY "vacation time" from September through March, because that was the "busy time" for the facility (lots of flu and other illnesses going around), so she NEVER had the option to visit her family for Christmas.

    The only other jobs that get close to the same number of breaks and holidays as teachers are other state and federal workers, but even they don't usually get the two months during summer off in addition to the breaks and holidays and summer is generally considered the time when most families take vacations since the kids are out of school.
     
  25. KateL

    KateL Habitué

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2007
    Messages:
    810
    Likes Received:
    2

    May 22, 2012

    But people still get married at other times of the year besides summer. And we can't always save up our stress until a break comes.

    Besides, wasn't part of the issue at Caesar's school the fact that personal days don't roll over, so the teachers have to use them or lose them? That's the policy that needs to be changed here.
     
  26. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,606
    Likes Received:
    2,714

    May 22, 2012

    Different employers have different policies regarding sick, personal, and vacation time. They also have different policies about how and when those different times should be used. It sounds like people are suggesting that it's wrong to use personal days in some ways because some employers have policies against using them in those ways. I think that's off base. One employer's policies don't extend to another employer. My contract hours begin at 6:45 in the morning; that doesn't mean that everyone needs to begin their workday at 6:45 in the morning and if they don't they are somehow being unethical. The same applies to the use of personal days. In my district, personal days can be used for any reason at almost any time during the school year. I don't understand why there is backlash against that or why teachers (including me) who use their contractually offered personal days for personal reasons are viewed as neglecting their professional responsibilities, letting students down, or being unethical.
     
  27. YoungTeacherGuy

    YoungTeacherGuy Phenom

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Messages:
    4,466
    Likes Received:
    1,494

    May 22, 2012

    :yeahthat:I wholeheartedly agree!!! :thumb:
     
  28. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    29,807
    Likes Received:
    1,171

    May 22, 2012

    It's not backlash, Caesar: it is, if I may coin a phrase, frontlash: the fruit of the belief that one's own worldview is sufficient to explain other people's experiences, and that their protestations to the contrary are merely further evidence of their unwillingness or incapacity to learn.
     
  29. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,946
    Likes Received:
    4

    May 22, 2012

    Frontlash. I like it... :)
     
  30. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    29,807
    Likes Received:
    1,171

    May 22, 2012

    (sighing)

    It comes from the perspective of a lifelong recovering know-it-all.
     
  31. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,606
    Likes Received:
    2,714

    May 22, 2012

    TG, you know more than anyone I've ever known, and that includes the polyglot exorcist priest I used to work with. I would most definitely classify you as a "know-it-all", but only in the most positive and endearing sense. :) You know a lot about a lot of things. It's nice to have a resource like that. :)

    And I agree that "frontlash" is a good word to describe what happens a lot around these parts.
     
  32. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    29,807
    Likes Received:
    1,171

    May 22, 2012

    Thanks, Caesar, though I wasn't fishing for affirmation. My point was that I had to learn, the hard way, that sometimes the very smartest contribution that a very smart person can make is to sit down, shut up, and listen. And periodically I have to re-learn it, and that is at least in part because it is a very, very valuable lesson - and difficult to remember, especially when one gets carried away by one's good intentions.
     
  33. CFClassroom

    CFClassroom Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,726
    Likes Received:
    1

    May 22, 2012

    I think it's a regional thing. I couldn't imagine this ever happening. Sorry so many of you are dealing with it.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. bassytrks01,
  2. nikitaarora171,
  3. Ima Teacher
Total: 204 (members: 5, guests: 183, robots: 16)
test