Fed up with...

In my school, there is no co-teaching for teachers that have SPED kids in their gen ed classes. In fact, I have only seen this happen at the ELEM level in my district; I have not seen any co-teaching at the MS or HS level. Instead, SPED kids get their pull outs when they would of had Math or Language Arts class.

Last year, I had a 6th grade class with 8 IEP students out of 10 kids. This class was kept much smaller than the other 6th grade classes to make it easier for the gen ed teachers to deal with all the IEPs. These were the kids with the more "severe issues" IEPs and if I had even suggested having a co-teacher, I would have been laughed out of Admin's office.

 

That wouldn't be legal here. We have to have the same number of gen. ed. kids as sped kids plus one more gen. ed. kid to make that situation legal.

 

Share the student how? Last year I taught MS social studies and the IEP kids that got pullouts for Math and Language Arts were in my class everyday. I never talked to their pullout SPED teachers because I taught social studies and there is no social studies pullout. The SPED teachers had nothing to say to me and offered me no help unless I approached them. We never discussed accommodations, I was just supposed to figure it out. We had ALOT of IEP kids in last year's 6th grade class. I have moved to HS this year but once again, none of my IEP students are pulled out from History so I never interact with their service providers.

Also, the SPED teacher didn't give my MS IEP kids a social studies grade (or a science grade) but, I think, they did factor into the students' Math and Language Arts grades.

 

Legality? What?

In my district - "ain't nobody got time for that!":lol:

 

Obviously, I was speaking about the art teacher I work with. I do'nt know what goes on in other schools. I value art. The problem is I don't think my art teacher does. She doesn't do much with the kids because they have multiple disabilities and she thinks they can't do anything so she doesn't try. I would love if she would do activities like they do in regular education schools. So, since I see this person every day and know what they do, I can definitely say that I have more work to do on a daily basis. Maybe she doesn't get paid as much. Who knows. As I said I wasn't complaining that I do more work I was just saying that not all people have equal amounts of work. Even the gym teachers have more work than she does and I know that as a fact. If you would like to travel to NY and prove me wrong then go for it. We could go to lunch. Oh wait, I don't get a lunch period. Never mind...you can have lunch with the art teacher since she does get a lunch period

 

:lol:

(Not funny...but funny.)

I know you're speaking specifically about your art teacher. I also know, though, that many teachers do as I said and assume that how one (insert type of educator) teaches is how they all do. I was venting.

 

Trust me, it would be funny to have lunch with her. But you'd have to buy her lunch because she thinks she deserves it LOLOL

 

I'm not surprised that someone is offended. That's o.k.
Everyone assigned to work with Special Needs children should do their job. Not everyone is comfortable doing so.
Why be afraid to say that there is something wrong with them? There is something wrong.

 

No, that should not be respected whatsoever. It would be like saying a nurse in a pediatrician's office isn't comfortable working with children that are sick. She does great with the healthy kids that comes in for well check-ups or breaks, sprains, or cuts, but she doesn't like working with sick kids and treats them accordingly.

I'm sorry, but in a public school you have kids with special needs. If someone isn't comfortable with that they should either choose a private school that doesn't take students with special needs or a different profession.

 

For anyone to admit they are not "comfortable" is in no way saying they won't do their job.
Sometimes the uncomfortable feelings come from lack of training. Whatever the reason, it should not affect teaching them.
Everyone has feelings and no one can deny these feelings.

 

Teaching just about any subject means you were hired to "work with special needs." I guess you shouldn't be teaching if you aren't comfortable in that role.

"Wrong" is a subjective word with a very clear negative connotation. There's nothing "wrong" with a SPED student who may struggle with attention but still has a higher IQ and ability level than peers who can sit still.

 

:thumb:

 

I'll admit that I sometimes complain about the makeup of my classroom. I have 6 students in my classroom on IEP's. Three of my teammates have 0, and the other has 2. They usually put all of the SPED students in my classroom, because it is easier for the SPED teacher to just work with one teacher, rather than having her students spread out in different classrooms. I really do love working with the students themselves, but I get frustrated that I am the only one year after year who has to attend multiple meetings, conferences, and IEP's. They don't keep my class size smaller, either, so it really is a ton of extra work for me.

Also, my state is moving to merit pay next year, so 50% of my "score" will be based on my students meeting proficiency. The teacher with the GT class has almost 100% proficiency in the fall, while I usually have about 40%. How is that fair?

Again, I love the kiddos like crazy, and I do everything I can to help them succeed, but I don't like the way my school places special needs students.

 

This is why value-added systems are what teachers should be advocating for.

 

Wow, I've never heard an educator say, "I don't want to work with him because there's something wrong with him". There are a lot of uncomfortable things in life. Suck it up. Or, an even better idea is to become comfortable with them. Work with them more, volunteer for Special Olympics, take a special ed class instead of hanging out on the beach all summer.

 

Teachers have to do many things they are not comfortable doing. We still do our assigned duties, comfortable or not. We are not going to be comfortable with many aspects of teaching, yet we can be great teachers.
As for the word "wrong," substitute it for any other word that you may find suitable for a child with problems. We can certainly agree that the Special Ed students have problems, I would think.

 

I would hope that a teacher wouldn't say, "I don't want to work with him because there's something wrong with him."
You are correct, suck it up and just do it, comfortable or not.
The point is, not everyone is going to feel comfortable working with Special Needs Children. Many times it's because they have not been given necessary training or because they don't have enough help to do so for the good of the child and the rest of their class.

 

Wow! Look what I started!
To clarify a few things -
I am a gen ed classroom teacher, and my vent was NOT about my kids at ALL! Although, it does get frustrating to have students in my room that everyone feels should not be together, but there isn't another teacher that would be a good fit for either child.

My vent was mostly based on a service provider (so someone whose entire job it is to work with kids in SPED) that has a seriously bad attitude towards many of our students. If you don't want to work with kids in SPED, don't go into that type of position! And going to my P was not just whining about a co-worker- I am very concerned that if an adult will act that way with my student in front of me, what is going on when they are alone in her classroom for 1:1 services? And of course, there are a lot of details to this story that I can't say here, but I promise, I have plenty of reason to be steaming angry.

The other adult I was venting about is another gen ed teacher, who is refusing to implement any accomodations for a certain student. You don't get to do that! You don't get to say, "oh, I don't like that accomodation!" I had this student a few years ago, and these are tiny things that really will take almost no extra work. It isn't an issue of she doesn't know what he needs or how to do it - she is trying to sit there, in front of the parent in the IEP meeting, and say, "I won't do that." Ugh.

 

Good luck finding any kid without problems, identified/codified in an IEP/504 or otherwise.

 

Special Needs Children...
This means any kid who might need extra help because of a medical, emotional, or learning problem. These kids have special needs because they might need medicine, therapy, or extra help in school — stuff other kids don't typically need or only need once in a while.

 

I didn't say there are children without problems. That's not what we're talking about here.
Some are offended by using the word "wrong" when talking of Special Needs children. For example, saying something is wrong with them. It's a touchy thing and we want to be careful about what words we use.

 

I admitted here a few days ago, as did others, that I would not be comfortable changing diapers for special needs children. Even with training, I would not be comfortable. There are other special needs I'm not comfortable with as well. It doesn't mean I don't value the child, but I don't feel I can provide as well as someone else. I do think certain people are better suited for certain students...teachers enjoy working with different populations (advanced students, inner-city students, special needs, etc.) and I don't think there is any harm in admitting you struggle or just don't as much enjoy others.

 

Hmmm...I hope you weren't talking to me, because, if so, you completely misinterpreted my post...?

 

I don't think I read your post! lol Sorry! I think I was speaking in general.

 

That's what I have been saying. I wish people would be more understanding and acceptable of this.

 

School would lose a lot of great teachers if everyone quit because of feeling uncomfortable. It's o.k. to feel uncomfortable with doing certain things, but that doesn't mean we won't do it anyway. That's life.

 

I agree that people do it anyway but why don't they do something about it? Is there anything that would help make you feel more confortable?

 

Perhaps there is something that would make some people feel more comfortable.
Sometimes people just can't change the way they feel.
I respect that and it's never o.k. to tell people how to feel.

 

Speaking in terms of the OP's post which is what this discussion is about, being uncomfortable is NO EXCUSE for the examples used by the OP. I don't care how uncomfortable someone is, failing to implement accommodations is no excuse, exiting someone from special education because you are uncomfortable working with that student is immoral at best, criminal at worst.

Since your post didn't quote anyone else, I took it to mean you were responding to the OP's original post.

Do you feel the uncomfortable excuse is acceptable to not implement a student's accommodations or exit them from special education?

Just me explained being uncomfortable about changing diapers but also included that people should not be accepting that job if they are not going to do the job and do so in a way that doesn't show discomfort.

I will never respect someone that won't implement an accommodation because they feel uncomfortable. Sure they are entitled to their feelings, but I can't respect someone that will do the things the OP mentioned.

 

I already answered this question.

 

Ha, this mama bear thing is my whole life. I completely under-anticipated how often I would need to advocate for my students due to other adults not doing their jobs.

Just last year I had my student "graduate" from Occupational Therapy because the woman doesn't want to work with him. She fabricated met goals and used assessment data from 3 years ago, claiming he could write in cursive.

Our gen ed Social Studies teacher also decided on the 2nd day of school that one of my students was not a good candidate for inclusion. (2nd day!) She said he was non-verbal. (!?) When I calmly asked exactly what happened, she said she kept calling his name to give him a book and he didn't come get one. Here, she called him THE WRONG NAME. Maybe that's why he looked confused? She also refused to give him materials and said "I wasn't sure if you belonged here.................in this period. I mean, in this period." Yeah, great cover up! I have offered her a ton of support and she keeps fighting me on it. She hasn't even looked at the IEP.

I get that not everyone has been exposed to Special Needs children, but you also have to seek professional development if you don't know what to do. ASK for help. I am ALWAYS available to help my kids (who I am really helping when I help you.) Not being aware of an IEP is frankly just not doing your job. If you don't like it, get a different one. It's part of teaching.

Also, Gen Ed teachers are always represented at the IEP meetings. If you don't think an accommodation is reasonable or appropriate, say so. Most of my Gen Ed team last year graded papers or played on their phones during IEP meetings. It's kind of like complaining about election results when you didn't vote.....meet me halfway!

 

Wow!!! No one would consider this in my school. I wouldn't want to be heard on audio tape "hey, Mr. so and so, you think you can stop grading papers and talk to us about this student's progress?"

Or have an advocate or lawyer ask you that...nope, no thank you.

I hate IEP's, they have become way to "lawyery" for me in California.

 

I know the word "uncomfortable" is being taken with the least positive intent, but I'm going to admit to being a little in that area.

I wouldn't choose that word, but this year, I got my very first special ed students in one of my HS classes (usually one US history teacher has all of the co-taught classes). I am... terrified. Yes, terrified is the word I'd choose. I have no training whatsoever in working with special ed students or a co-teacher (due to the program I went through) and I am convinced that I'm going to make a mistake at every step. I want so badly to help these students, but I came in not knowing HOW, though. So I spend my time researching and talking to special education teachers.

So I know "uncomfortable" is making everyone hot under the collar, but I can understand that sensation. It might sound better to say "I'm not currently comfortable" teaching these students but I'm still going to try my hardest, despite my discomfort. Hopefully, within a few months, I'll no longer be uncomfortable because I'll feel more secure that I won't mess up.

 

Oh, it was obvious that she didn't care about my regular ed students. She was trying to get me to revamp my instruction so "her" student would be more successful. When I told her that her suggestions would make things more difficult for the rest of the class she said "I don't care about what they need. I'm here for XXX."

 

I see where Grammy Teacher is coming from, and I agree with JustMe's post above.

I love students, even the most challenging students, but I don't always feel comfortable working with all of them. For me, this is usually because I don't feel like I have the appropriate training and skills to be able to do the job effectively.

The diapers example above is a great one. I would actively refuse to change diapers if I were asked to do so, because I simply do not feel comfortable with that. It doesn't mean that I won't love the student or that I would refuse to work with the student; it just means that I would not be willing to change a diaper.

As a teacher, I have never worked with a student with Down syndrome. The truth is that I wouldn't have the first clue about where to start, at least not from an educational perspective. I have a family member with DS, and I most definitely feel comfortable being around and interacting with people with DS, but as a teacher I would feel uncomfortable because I would worry that I wouldn't be able to do my job. I wouldn't refuse to work with a student with DS, but I would definitely demand resources and training so that I could provide the best possible educational opportunity for that student, just as I strive to do with all students.

To use a non-special ed example, let's take a student who is actively involved in gangs, drugs, and violence. I teach in an inner-city school, so it is not unusual for me to have an occasional student like this. A handful of times over the years, I've had students who have been deeply involved with very serious criminal activity. Once or twice, I have felt extremely uncomfortable with those students. I still cared about those students, taught them to the best of my ability, and tried my hardest to help them see that they could make better choices. There are many people here who would/could never work in an inner-city setting with gangbangers and junkies, but we're not jumping all over those teachers. There is a certain unfairness in that, I think: that it's okay for people to admit their discomfort with certain students but not with others.

 

All I'm saying is that I understand where your sped teacher was coming from. Obviously you have to be concerned with the learning of ALL of your students. She doesn't. She only needs to concern herself with the learning of her students. That. Is. Her. Job.

Regardless of who ought to be concerned with who, it sounds like this is a prime example of when differentiation is necessary so that ALL students can be successful and not just the sped students and not just the regular ed students. That's a challenge, yes, but it's part of the job.

 

That's the point most people are trying to make. You wouldn't sit there and be "uncomfortable". You admit you don't know what to do and ask for help. It's not doing the students any favors to just sit and stew silently about it.

I guess it's a lost cause to "try and teach an old dog new tricks". :sorry:

 

Why is there an audio tape? Who wants it taped: the school, parent or district?

 

Co-taught HS classes? In social studies? Is this normal in your district or do you work at one of the good/better schools? Just curious.

 

In my district, it is the norm in all departments. 3 of my 5 classes are co-taught with a certified special ed teacher. We have around 10 special ed and 10 general ed kids in each class. I would say roughly 1/4 of all core classes (math, science, english, social studies) are co-taught sections at the MS and HS.

Some of the co-teachers are better than others though. There are some who don't know the content at all. One of my friends found out she'll be co-teaching physics this year. I asked her what she knows about physics, and she replied that "I know how to spell it :lol:" Luckily my co-teacher is great.