I have a student that does whatever he wants if there is even the slightest thought that he might get away with it. In fact even when it’s obvious he won’t get away with it he still does what he wants. He is also smart and manipulative. Furthermore he seems to have no sense of empathy or morals whatsoever. I am not the only one who notices this. Today my aide even said “He’s like a shell of a person.” I have spoken to his parents about his behavior and they are no help. But that’s not why I’m posting. I know he will not change. I was just wondering if anyone else has ever had a student that struck you as a possible sociopath. Someone who just doesn’t seem to have any sense of right and wrong, or knows but simply does not care.
I did a long-term sub for 7th grade in the most urban school in the district. It was not fun. I had at least one "sociopath" in every class. These types would stroll into class on a cell phone, refuse to stop texting, sing out loud (on headphones) while I'm giving instructions, ask to get a drink, use the restroom, ANYTHING to create problems. One such boy walked into my room, falcon punched a girl.. A GIRL, and began walking away while I was directing him to stop. He treated me like I was Bruce Willis in "Sixth Sense". In other words, I did not exist. I beat him to the door only to have him look me up and down and say, "Get outta my face." "You ain't my teacher fool." He then informed me the girl was his sister. Like it was his right to bring family style justice into my classroom. Speaking of rights.. these few students all had the same sense of right and wrong. It was simply: it's a free country and I can do anything I want - it's my RIGHTS! Can't tell you how many times I heard that. But I think every 7th grader's fav phrase when they are getting in trouble was, "I don't care." They really didn't care. And why should they? My guess is there was no accountability at home. How was a little inconvenience of a referral and in school suspension going to ruin Xbox, internet, and basketball time once they got home?
I’ve had a few who had some tendencies, but only one I think truly was one. As a student, he was uninterested in work. He was sneaky, and he was often in trouble for things. He was mean to people and animals. He tried to set fire to one of my desks once. He held a lighter under the desk. He never showed remorse, or really any emotional response to anything. He’s currently in prison. His mother’s body was found dumped in a shed in another county. When they went to the house to question him about his mother’s death, they found the brother’s body in the freezer. He and his wife were convicted of murder and tampering with evidence. His mug shot has that same blankness he always had.
Yes, I've had one diagnosed and a couple of others that probably will be. Then I've had a lot that sound like the second poster's kids - students that are so self-centered that they actually enjoy causing problems for others. I don't think they were actual sociopaths. Just jerks that were being raised by jerks. They'll probably produce multiple jerk children themselves.
Not sure if he's a sociopath, but I have a Kindergartner who is downright scary. The kid isn't the biggest behavior problem in the room, but he says the most awful things. On one of the first days of school I read a book called "Storm" to the students with animals on the cover. I asked them to make a prediction and this boy said with absolute delight, "Maybe there will be a storm and all of the animals will die! I hope the horse dies first!" He also regularly says things like, "I love nightmares" and "I love monsters, especially the kind that hurt people." One day he told another teacher he was going to blow up the school because we wouldn't let him bring toys and "we'd be sorry." His mom just brushes it off and says, "Oh yeah, he likes scary stuff" as if it's a perfectly normal interest. I'm truly afraid this kid is going to grow up and become a school shooter.
Yes. He sounds very similar to the child below, but didn't ever try to start a fire (thank goodness).
Many years ago I had a young student who had already killed animals and set fires before he came to my 1st grade class. I kept a tight watch on him until the family moved out of state.
I had one last year that I felt like deserved the label. They frequently held scissors or other objects to my neck, eyes, etc.. saying they would kill me, or would wrap their hands around their throat when given a direction they didn’t like and say “I’ll just kill myself”. They would randomly attack staff, other students, etc. and just say the most awful things I’ve ever heard. The mother got hurt in an accident and when we talked about it during a session they said “I was hoping she would just die, but she only got hurt”. The student is now “homeschooled” after a violent incident at the school they went to after mine.
I had one. He was in a drama class of mine. On the first day of class, we do a getting to know you exercise where everyone has to say their name, their grade and something interesting about themselves. His interesting fact was he likes to kill people. I reported it immediately, and the admin got statements from the entire class. He didn't stay long, he was kicked out of school for hacking the computer system, but the kids were always afraid of him. I met his mother once, and she said that her darling child was super gifted and bright, and that he was smarter than most of the teachers in the school, but I would be alright, because he thought I was more intelligent than the rest. We all were relieved when he left. I looked him up on Facebook a few years ago and saw a lot of Neo-nazi pictures and posts. Pretty sure he went the wrong direction.
I'd recommend the book,"the psychopath test" you anyone interested in the area or who may have sociopath kids in their class. There's a possibility that some kids are just acting out for attention, but I imagine most teachers are able to recognize when that's the case.still the book is interesting for the variety it presents, including some sociopaths who become successful. Though I'm not sure that a successful sociopath is the best outcome.
If that happened at my school the attacker would be physically detained by one or up to twelve of security staff (who are armed) and brought straight to the principal. Depending on the severity of the attack, said student would be suspended indefinitely and receive zeros in the gradebook for each day missed and/or expelled and/or criminally prosecuted. For those suspended, they would also be prohibited from attending all school-related functions and activities for the remainder of the school year and put on heavy restrictions — students at my school hate being put on restrictions and never reoffend because it’s not something you want to do more than once, I assure you. We don’t mess around and send a strong message about fighting. At my school, we believe if you do the crime, you do the time. Just because you’re a minor does not exempt you from being responsible for your actions. Minors are prosecuted in the criminal justice system all the time and we have no qualms about seeing fit that criminal activity is punished severely.
I am sad to say that I have. When he was 6-7 he would describe how he wanted to eviscerate people and watch their blood and guts spill out onto the floor. He would often cry and say that someone hurt him and point to a kids who would look horrified and shocked and say that they swore that they hadnt done anything to him. When we told him we were going to call his parents about his behavior he would accuse them of abusing him and say that they beat him and lock him a closet if we call home - all of this was a lie and had been investigated by the police and CPS more than once. He just didnt care if he hurt his own parents if it kept them from taking away him TV and computer game privileges. I have one this year that I was a little worried about, and continue to be, but have hope that things can improve for her. In second grade they called the police on her for assaulting her teacher and other students. She would hit kids with metal objects while making racists slurs at them. She destroys property and is a pathological liar and feels entitled to hurt people that tell her to do things she doesnt want to do or try to discipline her. Thanks goodness we have come a long way and we are seeing a lot of progress this year. I think for her their is hope, for other I have seen go through and make zero improvement and I do think I will see them on the news in the future.
Your post makes me so sad. I have not met any ‘Buffalo Bill’ students. I have met students who have needed a variety of support-academically, socially, behaviorally, psychologically. These memes are horrifying in any situation. Used to define kids? Disturbing at best and one would expect more from dedicated professional educators. Just my $.02.
Wow. Clapping. How inappropriate There are students who have extreme psychological problems and many belong in specialized programs- not the gen ed classroom. I do believe early intervention can help but I am not qualified to provide that kind of support. Your memes, however, are offensive and show no compassion for what is essentially a mental illness.
Don’t ever underestimate my knowledge or experience, or that of any member here. Not sure why you feel the need to educate us. And yes, I’ve seen the movie. The meme is in poor taste and was unnecessary in what could be a productive conversation about a serious problem.
Doubtful your meme came from a reputable psychological health source- its existence is meant as a joke. It’s a gif- not educationally illuminating. Your clapping and ‘super duper’ comment were unnecessary and comes off as condescending. Just my 2 cents . Kind of done with this and you continuing to ask what I know, have read or seen I’m sure the OP had the best of Intentions when posting. Hope s/he finds the support needed for the students in question.
I wish teachers were heard when we ask for help for students. I’ve had several I suspected had some type of mental illness. For one student, I reported issues to CPS, requested out of school counseling, requested testing in the system, and asked for help from anyone higher in position. All for naught. I have over fifty pieces of documentation where I asked for help for this student. I kept scissors locked up that year as this boy was fascinated with stabbing people and animals. He is now in prison for stabbing an elderly man in the face when the boy broke in to his home late one night. It haunts me that, perhaps if someone would have listened to me, maybe that man would not have been injured.
One point that I keep coming back to is that none of the Gacey's, or Ridgways have a history of long term tiered supports. No one says, "yeah his parents had him in one-on-one and group therapy and the school had him in weekly counseling and social skills group and we tried everything out there and he still turned out the way he did". I think that there has been an improvement on that score so that I am less likely to see a former student on a wanted poster one day but the funding still isnt there even as abuse and trauma becomes more and more pervasive. We ask for help and say that they need it but that still doesnt mean they will get it and that is a lot to take having to watch year after year. I would also like to thank czacza for reminding us that this not a joke. I think many people, myself included, tend to make light of things as a way of dealing with something that is very dark and heavy. This can be a coping mechanism to help us shake off some of the "dark place" thoughts we get when we have to go back in classroom with these kids day after day and year after year. I think also that there is a place for this coping mechanism since the real bad thing would be not to use any coping mechanisms and be embroiled in this day after day and burn out and be unavailable to the students who need us. I also think that this is a very touchy subject that can really strike a nerve, particularly when it hits close to home. I work with a teacher whose son is ED and when we talked about ED the other day in the lunch room and someone said that they felt it should disqualify you from military service as an adult. The teacher was very upset and felt like we were passing judgment on her kid and his future. I also have a kid with an ED diagnosis and I would hate for anyone to call him a "Buffalo Bill" (thought thats doubtful since he isnt violent but still) . But I also want to allow people to do what they must to cope and deal with all of this heavy crap. well there's my 2 cents
Imagine if... A teacher could document violent or troubling statements and actions and then those students could actually receive counseling or support with what they had going on. I feel that is something that's severely missing from our schools and/or communities. There are probably systems in place at some schools to help kids but certainly not at any I've ever worked in. Counselors are generally equipped to help students make friends or deal with homelife issues but they're not psychiatrists, and some students need actual help. One could argue that's a parent's responsibility at that point, but there are too many tragic events that happen with previous teachers or classmates saying there were warning signs from a very young age.
A teacher, especially, should be very careful about using the term sociopath to describe a child. Find the correct classification within the terms that a social worker or counselor would use and stick to them. The connotation of sociopath is purely negative, the correct term prevents people from jumping to conclusions that may or may not be warranted. It also makes you look professional.
Disruptive Mood Dysregulation Disorder https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...c5f8/1510340513393/TARA4BPD-Brochure-2017.pdf We should all know what is going on with borderline personality disorder. I saw this thread, but have been quite ill, so didn't get around to posting until now. Feeling a little better, and awake enough to spend some time on the computer. I would hope that we should educate ourselves on some of these less typical presentations of conduct and personality disorders. https://www.slideshare.net/fitango/antisocial-personality-disorder-18556893 https://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Familie..._Families/FFF-Guide/Conduct-Disorder-033.aspx
I don’t know, kid seems like a sociopath to me. What is a sociopath? A sociopath is a term used to describe someone who has antisocial personality disorder (ASPD). People with ASPD can’t understand others’ feelings. They’ll often break rules or make impulsive decisions without feeling guilty for the harm they cause. so·ci·o·path /ˈsōsēōˌpaTH/ noun a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.
Do you teach SPED? While the kid may or may not be a sociopath as an adult, as a child, they are identified with personality disorders that may improve with therapy and the right treatment, therefore preventing the sociopath adult. In SPED, we don't write them off. We treat, we work with, we document, and we pour a lot of effort into preventing "sociopath" from being the final outcome. Because, as teachers, we set the mood for how we treat and respond to these troubled students, it helps to be educated in the mental disorders displayed now, knowing that we may not be able to change the final outcome for that child, due to factors that neither they or we can control. They may have been exposed to drugs and alcohol in utero, come from broken families riddled with violence, given over to child protective services at a young age because parents were incarcerated or in the throes of drug addiction. Many are in the foster system, being moved from one home to another. Many suffer abuse at an early age from the people who should be protecting them. Since neither you or I can predict the future for this child, I choose to work and hope for change. I have seen true miracles, and I have experienced dismal failures, but I have faith that what we do matters. That includes branding and calling a child with a mental illness the worst possible outcome, and then wondering why it was a self fulfilling prophecy. You work in a private school that I am sure has the luxury of turning away these types of students. After all, children in the foster system probably can't pay the tuition where you work. That said, you have not experienced either the exhilaration of success or the heartache of failure that can come from working with these students. You are, however, an educated teacher who should be using accepted terminology for these disabilities. I would think that you would want to be at least that professional in your demeanor. Why be hurtful if you don't have to be??? "Students learn best in a psychologically safe, mistake-friendly environment. We all make mistakes. How teachers respond has everything to do with whether or not their students feel valued as human beings. We are responsible for creating a psychologically safe classroom. In all possible situations, we should seek to uphold the dignity of the student. Even when disciplinary action is necessary, it should be handled in a dignified way." Thank you, Pi-R-Squared FMP, does it hurt to refrain from calling the child a sociopath? The classifications used in IEP's do not support the term sociopath, especially at the younger ages. Why would you be so determined to go against SPED laws and regulations? Is it for the sensationalism of calling a child a sociopath? If so, that is very sad.
I never said that students with mental illnesses don’t have a right to learn or to not receive services to cope with their mental condition(s). In fact, I fully support SPED teachers and admire them for the work they do. They have immensely important jobs that are irreplaceable, imo. With that said, I don’t believe that I’m branding anyone here. The aforementioned student clearly meets all of the criteria for being a sociopath and so if the shoe fits, then wear it. Now, I would never call them that to their face, but that doesn’t mean they are not a sociopath because you don’t like the word being used. In my BTSA classes, we were shown how certain students are more likely to drop out of high school and stay poor their entire lives. This was all based on their family demographics and malperformance in school from an early age. Speaking about this, I learned how you can determine, with a high degree of certainty, which students are bound to fail, based solely on their elementary reading levels. Is this method demonstrable? Of course not, because there are multiple factors at work here, but is this method more than fairly accurate? Absolutely. Take the divorce rate in the United States, which is 52% the last I checked. This means if I were to select 100 couples at random, and provided that I had a true representative sample, I would find that about 52 out of those 100 marriages would end in divorce. It’s not a guarantee, but there is a 52% probability of that event occurring. I’m a mathematician. I use explicit definitions, good empirical data, statistical significance, and probabilistic models to formulate my arguments. And I know numbers don’t always give the full story, which is why context is so important, but they are still incredibly reliable as they are consistently deterministic. Lastly, I will end with this: Steward/stewardess has become flight attendant. Janitor has become custodian has become custodial engineer. Obesity/morbid obesity has been replaced with curvy. Call it what you want, but a sociopath is still a sociopath.
If we can call it what you want, why not use the clinical term? I know you think highly of your station and your job. Your reasoning simply sounds like you want the shock factor. Will I fight with you over this? No, because your mind is made up, logic seems lost on you, and although I am feeling better, I don't need the aggravation of someone who simply wants the last word. I am still on the mend, and I see no way that getting into a battle over correct terminology, for those in education, can be good for my health. Call them anything you want - I would have thought that understanding how these terms are used in IEP's and therapy would be beneficial for any teacher. Obviously I was wrong. Consider me out of your discussion. However, if you wouldn't say it to their face, why not be just as charitable among colleagues? Over and out.
I am very logical, thank you. And you were the one who took issue with the use of the word sociopath, so who is the one arguing over terminology? Secondly, according to Psychology Today, Mayo Clinic, and other research bodies, the terms “antisocial personality disorder” and “sociopathy” are used interchangeably and both are recognized in the medical literature. Personally, I’d rather use one word versus three or four in your case, but to each their own. I’m not saying that your suggested terminology is invalid, just that mine is valid, too.
