How do you? I notice that many of the punishments/consequences that people talk about around here are things like time out, leave the room, etc. But how do you make it happen? When I try things like that, the kids don't cooperate I say, "I think you need some quiet time; please take your book to the back of the room." No go. Then I try to get more forceful. Still no go. Threats of punishment. Maybe, but not always. After a warning, my teacher's policy is to take the paper of a kid who talks during a test or quiz. I have had kids refuse to give it to me. I just tell them I know who they are anyway and they will receive a missed mark even if they complete the test. But still... I have sent kids out of the room for disturbing and they refuse to go. I make deals sometimes, such as in the classroom we are working -- you may stay if you are doing what you're supposed to and not disturbing. They break the deal almost every time; I've stopped trying. I won't give any more examples, but in general I find the kids ignoring a lot of what I say.
I hate to tell you this, but, they are waiting for the deal. They have already learned that you are going to let it slide or make a deal if they just wait long enough. You have to stand by what you stay and be tough, especially until they respect your rules/consequences. Any time they do not do something the first time you tell them too they are being defiant and need to be escalated to the next punishment. ("Now I am going to take your paper and you lose five minutes of recess, if you are still not listening we will be calling your parents"). Also, some of it comes with practice/experience.
A lot of it is the tone you set early on. When I say "Matt, please see me after school", that is NOT a request. The "Please" is there to be polite. It's an order, and Matt knows the consequences will come tomorrow if he forgets today. I think the key is having them EXPECT consequences, and to have a good idea of what those consequences are. Also, you've got to be reasonable. If you say he'll miss recess for the rest of the year and it's still 3 months away, he can be confident that he'll wear you down.
I teach preschool... so I can (and we do upon occasion) actually pick the child up and put him where we've asked. But that doesn't work with older kids.
I agree with the previous posts. Here are some suggestions as you think about preparing for next year. 1. Determine your expectations. 2. Identify the logical/natural consequences for each expectation (students are more likely to participate in a logical/natural consequence, and they will learn something about their behavior). 3. Determine whether or not you are prepared and able to enforce a particular consequence. 4. Practice this by role playing with your students before misbehavior occurs. 5. Rather than "I think you need some quiet time; please take your book to the back of the room," try (Billy, your are talking rather than following along, please take your book to the back so that you can follow with us without being distracted...). The idea here is that you identify the student, the current behavior and the behavior you would like to happen. (In fact, you can use this as a reminder, even before a consequence is necessary). 6. If you find kids ignoring a lot of what you say, my advice is to work on your relationship with your students. Focus more on the positive. 7. Behavior management is mostly about good classroom instruction. Take a close look about how you teach and manage time and space in the classroom. Are the kids constantly engaged in interesting and developmentally appropriate instruction?
Yes, kids know that I can not and will not physically force them to do something (unless of course there is a physical danger to him or others). So I had found myself in the same place as Bored of ED- frustrated, and tired of being ignored. Kids are pretty smart and they will dig their heels in if they want to get their way - especially if they want to save face. This didnt really sink in on a practical level until I read Love and Logic. I don't think I can use everything they suggest, but many of the strategies were extremely effective the very first day I tried them. Heres are some basics: 1) What you say to the child next must be said in a tone that displays love for him/her and empathy. The child is about to get a consequence that he is probably very annoyed about and if you give the slightest hint of satisfaction that you are "gettinging him back for his behavior" the child will be livid at you rather than himself, for getting him into this mess. Do not use sarcasm. Do not say " I hope you learned a lesson" etc. He will when he realizes that the consequence is a direct result of his behavior. Say a fact - something like "students who listen to my directions are welcome to stay. Please step outside until you are calm enough to do so. We'll be very happy to to have you join us then." 2) Most kids will not listen to that the first time - why should they? they want to wait till your face turns colors after they decide not to listen. We adults can be vetry entertaining that way if we aren;t careful. Next you provide a choice about the next step. The choice MUST be something where you are perfectly content with whatever option he decides. again, the statement is made in a comletely calm voice " "You have a choice, you can either step outside on your own, or Mrs. _____ (principal) can come and help you." Again this is is not said sarcastically. Also it needs to be implied- sometimes I state directly , that if they don't choose, I will choose for them. I will say " it looks like you decided that you need some help" Then I turn around hit the intrercom to the office, and go right on teaching. I have only had to do this ONCE. I don't gove a second chance for them to change their minds. As you said, they don't always keep to the deal you make for a second chance and then, you, the teacher end up looking like a wimp, when nothing happens. Read the book. Take some tips, others might not work for you. But it really helped me cut down on so many power struggles. I enjoy, and they enjoy so much more now. They respect me for sticking to my guns, very calmy, and I respect they start thinking before they speak/do. They also see that I am sad when they make mistakes. Very sad. But I can't change what they did, and I won't ignore it. I enjoy teaching them so much more now.
I'm going to venture and say that you need some support from another teacher or even the administration if you have students that don't respond. We used to send students who needed time out to the next door teacher's room to put head down. Don't know if I liked that strategy or not. I've had explosive students who I call office if I need to remove them (but it's extreme situations). Other than that, can you look at your discipline system? What is the motivation for students to behave? Sometimes, if you can start to focus on the positive and reward the students who behave, the others want it too, and slowly they will come around. It takes a lot of work as I am sure you know. I would suggest that first- look at what you're doing, ask a co-worker for advice, observe other classrooms that are working. Another thing is to walk away and don't get in a power struggle. I give choices (see Love and Logic). Either choice is a win-win for you, but it gives the student the options the he/she is seeking. Good luck Let us know.
It sounds like the expectations and consequences were not clearly enforced in the beg. of the year. I would start the next year out with a clear idea of what you expect from the kids, think about how you are going to communicate that to them. Also, talk it over with the teacher in the class. She needs to be supporting you. The one time I had a kid tell me no I called the office and the Principal came and removed the kid. He never, ever told me no again. Take the summer and think about the expectations you have of the students. Then when you start the school year don't be afraid to ask for support. The kids need to respect you.
One more thing...this is a funny story from my first year teaching. The boy who would tell me no, this went on for a couple of weeks before I called the office. One day I was complaining to my coworker about this boy and told her how he tells me no. I asked her "what do you do with a kid like that?" She said "you look him right in the eye and with a firm voice you tell him, You DON'T tell me no." The next time he told me no I did that and called the office. I have a feeling the Principal laid into him but part of me wondered if it was as easy as just telling him "you DON'T tell me no."
I hear a few of my students saying "no" to their parents and trying to negotiate their consequences with their parents. They come to my class expected to get away with this. I got into the habit of looking behind me and then looking at my feet/arms/hands(dramatically and with a confused look on my face) when one of these students say no to me (sometimes i tell them that i am confused and ask them or someone near me what my name is). I then tell them that I think that they made a mistake and thought that I was their (mom, dad, grandma...). I then tell them that I am, Ms. _____, their teacher and they better think of something else to say to me besides no when I asked them to do something. I then repeat my request and wait for an appropriate response. If I don't get a response I give them a few choices as to what they may tell me. Consequences will depend upon their response.
Our school uses the Diana Day behavior management plans. I had difficulty with this, too and it's helpful. Plus, since it's schoolwide, the students hear the same language in many classrooms from many teachers. It's gotten better - use a very firm voice and be very specific. "Take your book to the back of the room." While you are saying this, stay calm and make sure the child is looking directly in your eyes. Pause and turn to walk away. (most of the time, the child will stand up and go to the back) When he/she does, acknowledge him/her by saying, "thank you for following my directions." If the child does not follow your directions, go back to the child and very calmly and firmly say, "You will follow directions the first time I give them. I asked you to go to the back of the room. You have a choice, either follow my directions or you will go to the principal's office." (or a partner teacher's room) Be prepared to send the student to the office immediately. Again, give the student about 20 seconds, with your back turned so the student feels like he/she is choosing to follow your directions. When you walk away, the wait feels like a long time, but the students get it and will follow your directions. They need to know that you are not joking and that you really want them to go to the back of the room.
It's interesting. My first year was JUST like yours. ohhhh, I tried everything! I told the students their consequences, I put their name on the red traffic light, I told the principal, I wrote a note to the parent.... I tell ya, I was all worn out! This year, I got an offer from another school. I asked if I could first sit in on a class to observe. Coincidentally, I was sitting in on a first year teacher's classroom... it was outta control. I was like, "ohh goodness, this reminds me of something all too familiar." I had the same confused look on my face that Proud2BATeacher talked about above. A look on my face that said "Ohh noo. This is not the way students behave. I know you kids aren’t really behaving this way." My arms were crossed and I had an expression of disbelief and disappointment on my face. And it ws genuine. Here I was, a guest in their classroom, and their misbehavior continued? I was shocked and saddened. The students now better, and what was interesting was their reaction! They knew! And when I passed by them or asked them to sit down or take out a pencil, they did so. I don't think I'd have felt as strongly as I did about good proper behavior had I not gone through my first...and unfortunately, horrible year....Living it, somehow prepares you us for the following year. I was nice my first year teaching because I thought the students would like me and ... Boy was I wrong. You will change. You won't stand for the same behavior you once allowed because you remember all too well how much it wore you out. This summer I'm reading up and working on procedures and thinking of things that might go wrong and what I’ll say and how I should respond depending on how the kids react…. I hope we have a successful year next year! Best to us all.
I disagree. Most kids WILL listen that first time if: a) They know it's info they need that you're not going to repeat b) They know there's going to be a consequence if they don't listen. Endless repeating just begets more endless repeating.
I totally agree Alice. If you don't expect them to listen the first time, they won't -- self-fulling prophecy.
Alice and Proud2beateacher: I'm sorry, I did not make myself clear: After months of not receiving consequences for their actions, and endless repeating , children will definitely test you to see if you mean business. Of course, once you establish yourself as being empathetic, caring, and firm about consequences, they will absolutely begin to recognize yor first request as one they should respond to, and that it is in their best interest. Does this make more sense?
Sure. You see it all the time in stores: parents who are on a downward spiral: they go from telling Johnny to stop running, to threatening to pleading to bribing, right on down the line. If they had told him and meant it when he was 3, they probably wouldn't be in this position with a 7 year old. Going back to the original question: I think the way you "make it happen" is to follow through with reasonable consequences the very first time, the second time, and every time after that. No "second chances", no "just this time." Fair and consistent consequences make your job so much easier.
Happens to be, I am pretty tough. At the beginning of the year, maybe I did give too many "second" chances, though I cracked down on the misbehaving kids in the end almost every time. But for months I have been very straight about that. I also believed in self-fulfilling prophecies, that kids will live up to your expectations, etc... but they didn't. Not once. I have docked points on tests and quizzes, sent notes up to the principal (almost always this results in the principal sending a secretary to fetch the kid, don't know what happens after that but our principal is scary!) and told the teacher (I'm the aide, I'm referring to incidents when I'm left to teach the class, usually for at most 1/2 hour) who DOES follow up... When I write a kid's name down, they know I won't erase it -- after months, they still beg me. (I tell them it will stay on the list, they had their chance and their warning and now it's too late -- but if they behave from now on I'll tell the teacher that when I give her the list. It usually works pretty well -- but only for that kid! The rest just don't learn!) I have no idea why they continue to be so out of control by me. Especially since (imho) I try to make the lessons much more interesting than the teachers do sometimes (e.g. teacher would just have kids take turns reading, hope they get it, and ask questions to bring out the facts -- I act it out, call on kids to help, draw on board, give examples relevant to their lives, etc.) but I still can't seem to hold their attention because of the few kids making noise and shenanigans in the back... With only one week of real school left, I'm not so concerned... but I feel like a flop and need a better plan for next time!
They WILL listen the first time. Mine do. If you ever fail--even ONE TIME--to not follow through with what you say, then they'll question you for a LONG, LONG time because they know that what you say isn't what you mean.
When I have a child that is being defiant about dicipline I tell them that I will count to five and if they haven't gone to time out (or whatever) that I will push the button on the wall and call an administrator down. They know I'm serious and the administrators do not mind (A couple times they talked the kids into going to time out instead of going to the office) as they know that I've followed my plan and it's the only way that kids get sent to the office.
I agree that it sounds like you need to establish a clear outline of your progressive discipline plan. Maybe something like this: 1st offense: Verbal warning 2nd offense: Parent contact and detention 3rd and subsequent offenses: Referral to principal/dean Do NOT negotiate or offer deals to students who have already broken the rules. Special rewards and incentives are for students who can and will do the right thing, not for students who have just proven that they have done the wrong thing. Wrong behavior warrants appropriate and immediate consequences.
Be sure that whatever consequence you give a child is definitely something that you can follow through with. Your behavior management will suffer greatly if YOU are the one who gives in. One of my favorite things to do is whip out my cell phone and have the child call his parent right then and there. I usually only have to do it once (maybe more if the child is especially ornery ;-)) and it is a wonderful lesson for the whole class! I still get tickled when I think of how big their eyes get when they realize that I will actually DO what I said I would. Always expect nothing but the best behavior, and don't settle for anything less! (and do it all with love and respect. If you respect them, it goes a long way in the way they will treat you!)
With particularly difficult students I always begin with a non-threatening warning regards their behaviour. I give them a choice "Sam, either you stop talking to Jim when I am speaking OR I will move you - it's your choice" I then back away, give think time and then resume. IF he continues then follow through with the consequence - ask him (very politely) to move to a different seat of your choosing. IF he doesn't comply with the request then go the next step.. "Sam, if you don't move then I will be forced to give you a detention (or whatever punishment you are allowed to give) - It's YOUR choice" Then back away and give think time. If he doesn't comply then : "Sam, if you don't move then I will get you removed from class" In all of these instances you MUST stay CALM and in CONTROL. If you threaten a punishment you must ALWAYS follow through otherwise the students will quickly know how far to take things. I hope this helps
