ellos conocen o saben las reglas

Discussion in 'High School' started by traeh, Nov 25, 2007.

  1. traeh

    traeh Companion

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    para los hispanohablantes.. o maestros de espanol ...

    cual es mejor en este caso: ellos conocen las reglas o ellos saben las reglas.

    yo se que se usa conocer con la gente, lugares, y conceptos mientras se usa saber con hechos e informacion. me parece que se puede usar ambos con las reglas. tengo razon?
     
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  3. monsieurteacher

    monsieurteacher Aficionado

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    I don't have the answer, but wanted to say how excited I am that I understood it :lol: My first year Spanish prof would be so proud.
     
  4. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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  5. K5 music

    K5 music New Member

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    Nov 25, 2007

    Ellos conocen es mejor.
     
  6. traeh

    traeh Companion

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    ! gracias ! : )
     
  7. eduk8r

    eduk8r Enthusiast

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    si, conocen es mejor pero los dos son buenos. :)
     
  8. Proud2BATeacher

    Proud2BATeacher Phenom

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    Okay, I don't speak spanish but I did not want to be left out :p!
     
  9. Budaka

    Budaka Cohort

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    For me there is a different shade of knowledge. Usually conocer is reserved for being an expert. I would say that someone who conoce las reglas- really understands the rules like why they exist, the reason for them, etc. Someone who sabe las reglas knows them and can say them but doesn't have a deeper understanding of them.

    Viva el espanol!
     
  10. eduk8r

    eduk8r Enthusiast

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    bienvenidos! :D:D
     
  11. hsenglish

    hsenglish Rookie

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    creo que es "concocer" pero Budaka tiene razon...
     
  12. lilly416

    lilly416 Rookie

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    this is very similar in French- the verbs connaitre and savoir, and it holds the same variance in spanish- conocer and saber.

    The correct response is Saben las reglas.

    Conocer is when you know a person or when you know something at an expert level.

    Saber is when you know about something, or you know the answer to something etc.

    I'm a translator so I am pretty confident in this response! thanks!
     
  13. Carmen13

    Carmen13 Groupie

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    It's also very similar in Portuguese

    eles conhecem as regras
    eles sabem as regras

    We could use both. I think that if we used the verb "conocer" it could meant that they are aware/acquainted with of the rules, but that doesn't mean that they understand them. On the other hand, "saber" is to know.

    In Portuguese we use both, but again, with this little different meaning.

    Are you aware of the rules?
    Do you know the rules?

    If you recognize a difference in English, that you can understand the subtil difference in Spanish/Portuguese/French.

    Eu também entendi o que foi escrito em Espanhol!
    Será que alguém é capaz de perceber o que eu estou a escrever em Português?:)
     
  14. eduk8r

    eduk8r Enthusiast

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    :) That was my understanding.

    Carmen, does perceber mean "perceive" and escrever mean something like "subscribe?"
     
  15. Carmen13

    Carmen13 Groupie

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    perceber = understand (or perceive)
    escrever = to write
    :love:
    I don't know the words in Spanish. Maybe percebir and escribir? I can understand a Spanish sentence but I don't know every single word. My understanding is only a result of the similarity between the two languages.
     
  16. eduk8r

    eduk8r Enthusiast

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    si, percibir and escribir
    I don't know Portuguese at all, what did you say in the last two paragraphs of your post? :)
     
  17. Carmen13

    Carmen13 Groupie

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    Eu também entendi o que foi escrito em Espanhol!
    Yo tambien entendi lo que fui escrito en espanol!
    I also understood what was written in Spanish!

    Será que alguém é capaz de perceber o que eu estou a escrever em Português?
    Sera que alguien e capaz de percibir lo que estoy escribiendo en Portugues?

    Will anyone be able of understanding what I am writing in Portuguese?

    Now correct my bad Spanish please!:help:
     
  18. eduk8r

    eduk8r Enthusiast

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    Yo entiendo tambien lo que fue (don't know how to say past tense of "to write," escribir; "writer" is escritor) en espanol.

    The second sentence looks just right, but I'm not a native speaker so take that for what it's worth! :)

    This thread is fun, good practice, a mi me gusta. :)
     
  19. Carmen13

    Carmen13 Groupie

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    Concordo plenamente!
    Gracias...obrigada!
     
  20. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    Oh, incredibly cool: I've spent the last half-hour admiring the similarities and differences in the spellings. Interesting that for the imperfect be writing Portuguese uses estar a plus infinitive (this would translate literally 'I am to write'; English uses that for a future, with maybe a hint of obligation, and it's not very common). And I'm struck by the v in escrever... Carmen, how do you say 'to have' and 'story' (I'm looking for a word that should begin with <f>) in Portuguese?
     
  21. Jarenko

    Jarenko Companion

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    no pienso que es importante para los pobritos saben la regla. Es mas desirablé que ellos coma la regla con mucho gusto y sabor.
     
  22. Jarenko

    Jarenko Companion

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    una mas polabrita deliciousa de mio:

    Leer es Poder, la Mathematica es un dolor para la cabeza.
     
  23. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    Jarenko, dear, my Spanish isn't much to speak of, but even I can tell your post is, shall we say, in dubious taste. And I'm not so sure about some of those verb forms: ellos coma??
     
  24. Jarenko

    Jarenko Companion

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    comen :blush:
     
  25. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    Oho: the man knows how to eat his words!

    What's the slightly parodying prayer? "O Lord, make my words tender and juicy today, for tomorrow I may have to eat them" - something like that.
     
  26. TeacherSandra

    TeacherSandra Enthusiast

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    :lol:
     
  27. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    Love it TG! :up:
     
  28. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    My words have been served to me more than once, and serve me right: sauteed, steamed, fricasseed, and occasionally poached (in either sense)...
     
  29. Carmen13

    Carmen13 Groupie

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    ter
    história

    A word that should begin with <f>? What do you mean TG?
     
  30. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    Okay, ter is clearly cognate with tener, and that's got something to follow up on, but it wasn't what I meant to ask for. How about 'have' as in 'have to (do)'?

    And for 'story', is there a word for the kinds of stories that AEsop told?
     
  31. Carmen13

    Carmen13 Groupie

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    Well, if I want to say "I have to do something for this student" I will use the verb "ter" as well

    Tenho de fazer algo por este aluno.
    (tengo que hacer...in spanish)

    We could also use the verb need=precisar

    Preciso de fazer algo por este aluno.

    As for the stories AEsop told...what did he/she say? You mean like sayings = provérbios? :confused:
     
  32. Carmen13

    Carmen13 Groupie

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    Maybe you mean something like the verb "to do".
    In Spanish you say "hacer" while in Portuguese you say "fazer".

    Also the verb to speak= hablar = falar...

    (Okay TG, I have to go to a rehearsal right now...look forward to hearing your comments/questions :angel:)
     
  33. eduk8r

    eduk8r Enthusiast

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    no hay de que :)
     
  34. eduk8r

    eduk8r Enthusiast

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    Isn't he saying to read he can do, math gives him a headache?
     
  35. eduk8r

    eduk8r Enthusiast

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    y si los pobrecitos no quieren comer las reglas?

    (only one verb conjugated to a sentence is the way I understand it...)
     
  36. tm91784

    tm91784 Comrade

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    I'm no expert, but that was exactly what I was thinking

     
  37. eduk8r

    eduk8r Enthusiast

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    Saber means to know facts or information or how to do something. Conocer means to know or to be acquainted with as in to know of. So they should be both aware of the rules and they should know what they are and how to follow them. And I think it’s funny that the three people who have insisted on saber as being correct have all said it in English, not answered in Spanish. hmmm. Makes you wonder.
     
  38. Budaka

    Budaka Cohort

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    Bueno, a ver. Si, se puede tener dos verbos conjugados en una misma frase, solamente que no esten juntos. Por ejemplo: dudo que vengan a la fiesta. Tiene dos verbos conjugados. Estara incorrecto decir algo como me gusta bebo- porque el verbo gustar requiere un infinitivo.

    Que yo sepa, muchas palabras en espanol que tienen una h tienen un f en latin como la palabra hacer-facer. Pienso que hay un grupo de personas que se llama los ladinos (viven en Isreal?) que hablan el espanol mas tradicional.

    Que viva el espanol y el portugues tambien!:2up:
     
  39. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    That's pretty commonly the way languages handle things: One Tensed Verb Per Clause (well, unless the verbs are coordinated, and then we're dealing with a sort of linguistic hydra).
     
  40. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    You'll forgive me for not responding in Spanish, please, 'k8r and Budaka.

    Budaka, if memory serves, que in the example you cite is a complementizer, and I believe dudo and vengan have distinct subjects, all of which suggests that they don't exactly belong to the same clause.

    Yes, the <h> in many Spanish words is a reflex of Latin <f>: facere/hacer, filia/hija, and somewhat more tenuously formosa/hermosa. And I'm fascinated to see how Spanish and Portuguese have diverged - notice the <v> in escrever as opposed to escribir, and what I was trying to elicit from Carmen was some words to confirm that <v> is more generally a reflex of Spanish <b>.
     
  41. Budaka

    Budaka Cohort

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    What do you mean by reflex?
     

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