Dress as an accommodation???

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by ecteach, Oct 12, 2013.

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  1. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    My point was that it's not about it being "unfair" for this student to be allowed to "break the rules". What she's wearing has been described as inappropriate. I don't care that another student may whine that it's not fair this girl gets to wear thing not aligned with the dress code, but I do care that her clothing is inappropriate.

    I have significant sensory issues and it can be very frustrating. So I do get it, but if what she's wearing is inappropriate in terms of being too revealing then it cannot be allowed.
     
  2. ecteach

    ecteach Groupie

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    She misses a lot of time in the classroom for this issue. Mom misses a lot of time at work because of this issue. Mom fights with her almost daily, but teen always ends up winning. Mom has a VERY lucrative job in a science field and TONS of money. She was not happy when she left. I am sure she could get a doctor to state anything she wanted him to state. At this point, we might be better off just agreeing to this. Oh, the things we deal with for a paycheck. :)
     
  3. ecteach

    ecteach Groupie

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    True. I can seriously see both sides of the fence on this one. I don't know where I am. The other teacher is a definite no. She thinks it is so ridiculous to even consider, and she is VERY understanding in nature. I was the same way yesterday, but I tend to over-analyze e-v-e-r-y-thing. I guess the bright side is that I actually have nothing to do with this case, other than just teaching in the same school, and knowing all parties involved. I'll just let them (and administration) fight it out. :whistle:
     
  4. Blue

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    I believe that sensory issues are subject to accommodation. My GS has ADHD, and will wear only certain fabrics. This issue sounds like it will take some work to resolve. Let us know what happens.
     
  5. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    I guess it comes down to whether this is a sensory issue, a control issue, or an inappropriate sexual behavior issue. I'm not sure that a teacher is properly equipped to figure this one out. Is there a school psych or something who can weigh in?
     
  6. bison

    bison Habitué

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    If this is a sensory issue, and I can see how it would be, I don't think it's a huge deal. Is the student able to wear a longer shirts/dress over the leggings? I saw others ask this, but I didn't see an answer. I think it'd be a reasonable compromise.
     
  7. Luv2TeachInTX

    Luv2TeachInTX Comrade

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    Just curious here, if it is such a big deal and causes this student to miss so much school, why does her Mom allow her to wear them? This is an issue that should be solved at home, IMO.
     
  8. Ima Teacher

    Ima Teacher Virtuoso

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    My ex-husband has Aspergers. He is very sensitive to pressure and textures. Only knit shirts, no collars, certain types of socks, no laces on shoes. He has to wear a belt and pulls it very tight.
     
  9. SpecialPreskoo

    SpecialPreskoo Moderator

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    If it is a sesory issue, they might could check into compression undergarments like Under Armour. I've had a preschooler that wore them. She could wear those under looser pants.
     
  10. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    That seems like it would be a good compromise. And even if it was (sigh) a sexual behavior, it would still serve a similar purpose.
     
  11. Go Blue!

    Go Blue! Connoisseur

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    TRUTH!
     
  12. SpecialPreskoo

    SpecialPreskoo Moderator

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    Exactly, the preschooler was ... uh... hmm.. stimming... and the compression shorts helped BIG TIME with that.
     
  13. gr3teacher

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    A couple other questions I thought of, keeping in mind this has apparently been going on for two years.

    1) Has any type of manifest determination happened?
    2) Is she wearing this clothing every day?
    3) If yes, is she getting sent home/to the office every day?
    4) If that's a no, why is it happening sometimes and not always? If it's a yes, why has it not been stopped or decided on long before now?

    I'm guessing what's happening, based on your description, is that she is wearing these inappropriate clothes every day, but isn't being called on it every day. If that's the case, why isn't she getting called on it every single time she wears them? I'd have to assume that mom would be much more likely to put her foot down (if such a thing is possible, of course) if she has to come pick the student up literally every day after the first bell rings.
     
  14. Linguist92021

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    I just don't understand one thing: if she has to wear very tight tights because she likes the snugness (sensory issues) why would wearing a long shirt on top bother her? That should not interfere with the tights.
     
  15. SpecialPreskoo

    SpecialPreskoo Moderator

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    If it isn't a sensory thing... why doesn't mom just throw them all away? (Why did she even buy them?) Then she would have to wear something more appropriate. She can't wear it if it isn't in there to put on.
     
  16. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    :agreed:

    The leggings themselves would not prevent this student from accessing the curriculum if she wore a more appropriate shirt over them.

    This is my question as well.

    There are some fabrics that my daughter doesn't like to wear. She hates to wear anything that she deems itchy, but she doesn't dress inappropriately because it. I think this is more of power struggle between child and mom than anything else and it seems like child is winning.
     
  17. Blue

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    Okay, I get it. She uses this to compress her private parts.

    This is a behavior that needs to be worked on.
     
  18. Go Blue!

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    I don't get this either.

    Exactly.
     
  19. cutNglue

    cutNglue Magnifico

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    There is nothing wrong with exploring the possibility of both sides of the coin but one should not assume standard perceptions are probably the correct response.
     
  20. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Maven

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    I don't think anyone is telling the mother that her child can NOT wear the leggings since it might be a sensory issue but how is NOT wearing a longer shirt/dress a sensory issue? That is what the child is being stubborn about. It might come to the point where the mother has to remove all the innappropriate shirts from her closet and she must make a choice based on what's left.
    I have had students who has "clothing quirks" and it can be difficult. The behavior must be reshaped but it has to be done at home. The mom can set up a behavior chart where she can earn things when she chooses and appropriate piece of clothing (a star/sticker when she chooses a longer shirt, etc.).
     
  21. 2ndTimeAround

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    I'd say no to the mother's request too. She can wear leggings under sweatpants. She can wear them under skirts.

    Mom and child are going to be in a world of hurt until Mom decides to help her child with her disability instead of using it as an excuse.
     
  22. BumbleB

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    It sounds like these leggings are really tight and really inappropriate. If it's going to be distracting to other kids, I don't think the school should budge on that. Like others have said, leggings under looser pants/skirts/longer shirts. The school must think about the ENTIRE student body, not just one student. Is it worth it to let one student wear what she wants while the rest of her classmates have to stare at THAT all day?

    Although her need for tight pants may be related to her disability, it is socially inappropriate. That's all there is to it. I'm sure mom would like her daughter to have a job sometime in the future. Most jobs have some sort of dress code, and this wouldn't fly at a job.
     
  23. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    As a society we have come to accept that physical boys that feel like girls can now change/shower in the girl's locker room and use the girl's bathroom, but we can't accept tight leggings.
     
  24. gr3teacher

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    Me right now
     
  25. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Okay, I'll bite.

    We don't accept other revealing and distracting outfits at school, either. When was the last time you saw a high schooler wearing a bikini to Spanish class? I feel like if you can see the outline of someone's vagina (or any other type of genitalia), then the outfit is inappropriate. That seems like a pretty reasonable line, at least to me.

    I also get the impression that you think that "physical boys who feel like girls" should be required to use boys' facilities. I could be wrong in that impression. In any event, one of the other things that our society does is recognize that some of our students come to use with special needs and require special accommodations. Sometimes those special needs might be difficult for others to understand, but it doesn't make those needs any less significant or subject to accommodation. By not affording "physical boys who feel like girls" a safe place to use the restroom, change, and shower, we could very likely be subjecting them to severe and constant bullying. I'm certain that nobody who works with kids and cares about kids would ever support that kind of bullying.
     
  26. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    That is exactly my point. If the accommodation needed by this special student is tight clothes (that break the rule), it is no different than the physical boy that feels like a girl using the girls restroom (which would break the rule if any other boy was in the girls restroom or locker room).

    However, we are getting more pushback from the tight leggings, but we are all supposed to just accept the transgender student and be understanding otherwise we are a bigot. Do you see the hypocrisy when looking at different types of students with special needs? Don't you see when people feel they will be called a bigot they are more accommodating than if they would not be seen in a negative light to deny accommodations?
     
  27. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    No, I don't really see any hypocrisy.

    In the bathroom example, there is a pretty solid argument that although the student is physically a boy, the student is also mentally and emotionally a girl. There isn't any "rule-breaking" when the student meets the eligibility requirements for using a particular type of bathroom.

    Yes, we need to "just accept the transgender student". It's exactly the same as how we need to "just accept" the student with cognitive delays or with no left arm or with PTSD. When we don't accept the trans student, we are bigots.

    Furthermore, with regard to the leggings issue, there isn't any clear evidence that the leggings are actually part of this student's special needs. There has been evidence that the leggings are possibly a control issue and possibly a factor in the student's inappropriate sexual behaviors. Certainly there needs to be more investigating before a decision is made with regard to what the leggings actually are representing in this student's story. Furthermore, there have been numerous suggestions about options for wearing the leggings if they are indeed a sensory issue and part of this student's special needs: wearing them under more appropriate pants, wearing a skirt or long shirt over them so as to eliminate the offense and distraction to others, wearing compression-type pants under regular pants, etc. Those are all reasonable ideas that don't impact the education of any other student in the school, unlike the option of wearing the leggings as is and causing a distraction and disruption.

    It is beyond me why easy solutions are being dismissed in favor of complicated, potentially unfair solutions.
     
  28. bros

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    Read the first two pages - has the OT done a sensory evaluation?

    Also, have the parents/school suggested alternates? Perhaps more appropriate clothing that appeals to the sensory needs of the student?
     
  29. Bored of Ed

    Bored of Ed Enthusiast

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    Since the leggings are currently the status quo, I'd suggest accommodating but only with a plan for improvement similar to any other educational or behavioral plan. So, while it's being worked on, she may continue to attend school and not miss out on her FAPE. But she should also be taught to wear more appropriate clothes using a plan that takes into account her sensory needs, reinforcement needs, etc. Perhaps she could gradually move from plain leggings, to leggings with tight pants over them, to leggings with looser pants or skirt over them. Perhaps as part of that process she can be introduced to a variety of appropriate styles of clothing so she can choose one that appeals to her, rather than having specific clothes forced on her. If she has a specific area of interest (as many with Aspergers do), maybe she can be motivated to dress like a role model in that area. Assuming there are sensory issues involved, working with a sensory-trained OT should be part of the plan, and OT should be added to her IEP if she did not already have it for other reasons - because now there is good cause to say it is interfering with her FAPE.

    I think this needs to be dealt with, but can be addressed with sensitivity to the student's needs.
     
  30. 2ndTimeAround

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    When is an autistic student just being a "naughty" student? Why is it that any time an autistic or ADHD student does something inappropriate, it comes down to their disability? Would all of these kids be perfectly behaved if they didn't have a label?
     
  31. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    No. Because, label or no label, the disability is still there. The label just explains the disability to others.

    If you're asking if the kids might be perfectly behaved if they didn't have the disability, then the answer is maybe. There's no way of knowing. That's not who the kid is. They are a kid with a disability, and their disability must be taken into consideration. For the record, plenty of kids with disabilities have behaved inappropriately and have received the same consequences any other student without a disability would received. Often times, however, such as in this case, the disability truly plays a role in the students' behaviors. You must trust the students' IEP teams to make that decision and come up with solutions when the time comes.
     
  32. dave1mo

    dave1mo Comrade

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    While I agree that it's not a result of her disability, this argument is fallacious. Students aren't going to get read-aloud accommodations from their bosses either, but we still provide them to students on IEPs for whom they are an accommodation.
     
  33. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    I don't see how the argument is fallacious. If this child is not taught appropriate wardrobe now and prior to getting a job, then the way she dresses could affect her getting/holding down a job. I do think this issue could be addressed outside her IEP, just like any other student who wears inappropriate clothing repeatedly. I do not think the dress code should be changed for this one particular student.
     
  34. dave1mo

    dave1mo Comrade

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    "If a student is allowed read-aloud accommodations in high school, it could affect his/her getting/holding down a job."

    The argument is fallacious; there are better ones that can be made. This argument is overused when interacting with students, imo.
     
  35. FourSquare

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    Let her wear the leggings and make her wear a dress/long shirt on top.
     
  36. BumbleB

    BumbleB Habitué

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    There are computer programs that can read text aloud to you. Now, the prospective employee would have to make a case for having this type of technology (and it would be hard, considering that the latest evaluation they could have would be 12th grade), but I could see an employer who really wanted to hire someone putting in the extra cash for a text-to-speech computer program.
     
  37. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Text-to-speech is a standard built in for several versions of Microsoft Software OS in addition to magnification for people that have trouble with small font. There are better ones out there, but even the cost of those products are not all that expensive.
     
  38. bros

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    I'm assuming 99% of people with IEPs in 12th grade would have their teams follow IDEA and if they still would require accommodations in the workplace or college setting, that they would be referred to the state voc rehab agency or a rep would be brought to the final IEP meeting, and vocational rehabilitation can pay for AT evaluations, as they can be considered necessary if the individual needs AT to hold a job.

    Windows Speech-to-Text is rather atrocious. Their Text-to-Speech isn't much better.

    I believe Dragon is around $80-$100?
     
  39. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    I agree, which is why I said there are better out there that are cheaper. However, in a pinch, they would work.
     
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