Does Common Core Have Room For Dr. Seuss?

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by teacherman1, Mar 8, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. teacherman1

    teacherman1 Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,050
    Likes Received:
    0

    Mar 10, 2014

    Simply re-read the original post, a2z.

    I said that I had been working in a school last week and observed that the K-2 teacher had the freedom of declaring "Dr. Seuss Week" and then she centered the whole week's reading lessons on an author study. I work with 9 of the kids in that class, and I was impressed by how excited and engaged they were doing the Seuss books. I also noticed that two of my PI kids seamlessly transitioned to "right-side-up" during the week.

    I used to have the freedom to do that prior to NCLB and High Stakes Testing and Pacing Guides and canned scripted programs took that freedom away.

    Now Common Core seems to be the big influence in the schools. Has that made things better or worse?

    For the record, I'm not against the idea of Common Core, but I see plenty of problems with how it was devised, how it was forced/coerced into the schools and how it is being implemented - at least in Rhode Island.
     
  2. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,985
    Likes Received:
    435

    Mar 10, 2014

    IT is the same as before. YOu have crappy admin who thinks you cannot teach effectively and that the only way to achieve high test scores is through canned programs and drill and kill test prep, then their is likely no room.

    If your admin believes you are an effective teacher and trusts you, then you can liekly make you whole year Dr. Suess.
     
  3. donziejo

    donziejo Devotee

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,091
    Likes Received:
    1

    Mar 10, 2014

    Scripted programs in elementary school are common in the West. I've heard many teachers complain about scripted lessons. It was a district decision. I've taught one scripted lesson. Do The Math Now. At least mine was only a supplement. I do understand what you are saying Steve.
     
  4. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    24,958
    Likes Received:
    2,112

    Mar 10, 2014

    Are ALL RI schools implementing CCSS the same way? I can assure you this IS NOT the case everywhere. As someone who has "been out of the classroom for quite a while now.... wondering if Common Core allows for "immersion" in one author or one genre", on what are you basing your strong opinions about the new standards?
     
  5. teacherman1

    teacherman1 Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,050
    Likes Received:
    0

    Mar 10, 2014

    I can always count on you, czacza, to take me to the mat on anything I have to say.

    Anyway, this is from a recent article on the Rhode Island NPR website:

    Critics say the standards place too much emphasis on nonfiction, and they point out the math standards never get to calculus, which is important for students interested in science and engineering.

    Another controversy is that the new standards come with new standardized tests, which will be administered twice a year, replacing the annual NECAP. These tests have not yet been used in any classrooms, and that’s part of the reason State Representative Gregg Amore is calling for a pause. He says the state should convene a commission to take a closer look at the test and the standards.

    "I have been inundated by phone calls and email from parents who tell me their first, second, third grader is coming home disgusted, crying, upset, having no fun in school," Amore said. "What has changed? By and large the teachers have not changed. What’s changed is the standards."

    Barrington Parents Tad and Amy Segal say they see that stress in their own children. And another thing they’re worried about, where is the art in the Common Core?

    "In fact, I had the teacher even say that unfortunately we don’t have a lot of artwork on the walls, we don’t have the time for it anymore," said Amy Segal, describing a recent parent night at her daughter's elementary school.

    The Common Core Standards focus on math, reading, and writing, and Rhode Island is one of a few states also starting to use the science standards. The state has its own standards for art education, but that’s less of a priority in many schools because it’s not part of annual standardized testing.

    The Common Core has already entered classrooms in Rhode Island, and the state has spent more than $12 million, mostly in federal grant funding, to prepare teachers and principals. State officials say they plan to move forward with the effort, but a grassroots movement of parents and other critics has started to gather strength, and they’re hoping the general assembly will be more sympathetic to their concerns.


    I've personally seen what's happened in Rhode Island's poorest schools (Providence, Central Falls, Pawtucket) and the district mentioned above, Barrington, is considered one of the highest - both in income and academic performance. I am also not the only one in the state to be questioning CC: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Stop-common-core-in-Rhode-Island/542616145789229


    Teacherman

    PS I wonder if you would appreciate it if I came at you with every negative comment I could come up with on your threads? Please get off my back or you may hear some comments from me on your posts concerning "Shape-wear" and "Mascara"
     
  6. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    24,958
    Likes Received:
    2,112

    Mar 10, 2014

    Teacherman...I'm engaging in conversation here. You are relying on parents and hearsay to base your decisions and opinions...not real experience or even real knowledge of what the CCSS are and are not.
    Your first post in this thread did set a tone (maybe unintended) of being negative on Common Core....and while the thread took its twists and turns through your history and experience with packaged programs, views on administrators and others weighing in on these same things, the simple fact is any school or district may or may not implement ANY given standards differently: some engage in collegial discourse in unpacking and understanding new content...others jump into packaged programs proclaiming to be 'aligned' with new content standards (most of these are old stuff repackaged with a few new twists and worksheets thrown in)... I've heard the radio talk show hosts and well intentioned but misinformed public decrying the new standards without knowing anything about them. I also know of professional educators who know the standards well but whose delivery of such is delineated by district mandated packaged resources. There are also many, many education professionals who have carefully researched the content, teach it well and still find room for hatching chicks, reading Dr Seuss and writing poetry in the sunlight...like anything in education, it depends on the WHO, HOW and WHY in such climates.
     
  7. amakaye

    amakaye Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,397
    Likes Received:
    4

    Mar 12, 2014

    I think the fact that the public does not understand exactly what Common Core is is a major problem. Our state legislature voted this year to move away from the CCSS and create new state standards, after spending the last 3 years or so transitioning to them. The new draft standards were just revealed. They are almost identical to the CCSS. The wording is exactly the same; there are just a handful left out and a handful of our old standards thrown back in. Simply removing the Common Core label seems to be the only change. I think this really shows that a lot of people's 'concerns' about them are really just misconceptions.
     
  8. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    6,196
    Likes Received:
    2,125

    Mar 12, 2014

    It depends on the school.
     
  9. teacherman1

    teacherman1 Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,050
    Likes Received:
    0

    Mar 14, 2014

    Is that really true, Pashtun? Assuming that your administration really does trust you, would you be able to put aside your reading program for a week of immersion in Dr. Seuss (or any other author or genre) if you chose to do it?

    Not one teacher so far has come out and said s/he could do this if s/he chose.
     
  10. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    14,059
    Likes Received:
    1,883

    Mar 14, 2014

    Of course, Common Core doesn't apply to me, but I could do this in a heartbeat, with no questions asked.
     
  11. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,985
    Likes Received:
    435

    Mar 14, 2014

    I am in 100% control of my reading program. I choose all novels that we study as a class. I could do Dr. Suess books ALL YEAR if I wanted. My collegue does the first 4 books of Narnia as his novel studey.

    So emphatically, YES IT IS TRUE.

    Now, the caveat is, our students are expected to learn the standards, and are expected to show this on the CST state multiple choice test....which they always have done.
     
  12. teacherman1

    teacherman1 Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,050
    Likes Received:
    0

    Mar 14, 2014

    You and your colleagues are very lucky to work in a school that still gives you that freedom. I'm willing to bet that there are very few public schools left that will allow that.

    I would love to teach in a school like yours. That's what our school was like for the first four or five years I taught there (1999-2004).

    Now Pash, if your administration changed tomorrow and they came in with a scripted reading program, took away the kid's recess time, cut back on arts, field trips and class celebrations of any kind and made you do test prep for weeks on end, would you still love your job?

    Steve
     
  13. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,985
    Likes Received:
    435

    Mar 14, 2014

    Not sure. I have not worked with anyone in administration who has walked in, looked at student achievement scores, and thrown it all to the wind.

    I certainly would take control of my life. If I didn't like the way admin was "forcing" me to teach to the point I didn't like teaching, I would make a choice to like it or make a change.

    Like I have said over and over again, there are bad teachers that become administrators and were not able to get students to achieve, so they believe others cannot as well and that a scripted program and drill and kill test prep is the only way to go. I stand by, "what do the results of my class show"?
     
  14. teacherman1

    teacherman1 Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,050
    Likes Received:
    0

    Mar 14, 2014

    And that's exactly what I stood on......
    It didn't matter.
     
  15. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,985
    Likes Received:
    435

    Mar 14, 2014

    So you have a choice in my opinion. Move on or like the scripted crap. You sound old and bitter.
     
  16. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    4,395
    Likes Received:
    7

    Mar 14, 2014

    I just don't understand why you would bet that "very few" schools allow freedom among teachers.

    On what are you basing this bet? Anecdotal stories you have heard? Actual experience in several schools in several states?

    You're just trying to make something true that isn't. Czacza gave several examples of ways to incorporate Dr. Seuss into the classroom several posts ago, and you glazed right over that.

    Frankly, I would question the wisdom of a teacher who would completely abandon any other comparative texts and immerse a class in ONE author for an entire week. It's just not necessary. You can celebrate Dr. Seuss without bashing kids over the head with him.
     
  17. teacherman1

    teacherman1 Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,050
    Likes Received:
    0

    Mar 14, 2014

    Yes I did (move on). Yes, I am old (62). Yes, I'm bitter (because I had to walk away from a career that I loved and was good at).

    So does that mean I should not continue to work with kids? Does that mean I should keep my mouth shut about what I see happening in education today?

    Or should I just stop posting to AtoZ and let you younger people find your own way?
     
  18. teacherman1

    teacherman1 Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,050
    Likes Received:
    0

    Mar 14, 2014

    If I gave you a list of links to back up what i'm saying, would you take the time to look at them, KCJO? Start with the new post I just added in the General Ed section.
     
  19. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    6,196
    Likes Received:
    2,125

    Mar 14, 2014

    What do you expect us to do about the fact that some schools in another state chose scripted programs when our schools did not react the same way? Riot against Common Core because your school chose scripted programs even before its inception?

    What do you really want from us? You say you don't have a problem with Common Core but almost every posts seems to associate scripted programs to Common Core (or NCLB) when that is not really the connection. So, what do you want from us when we all keep saying the same thing. The problem is with some administrations or districts.

    How would you like us to participate in your fight against a district that isn't ours and for many not even in the same state because the problem isn't Common Core?
     
  20. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,985
    Likes Received:
    435

    Mar 14, 2014

    I can guarantee you your attitude effects the work you are currently doing with children in a negative way.

    It also means your biased in your view point. You are looking for information that supports your bitter stance towards teaching atm. As I said initially, you do not like common core and are looking for articles to support this.
     
  21. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    4,395
    Likes Received:
    7

    Mar 14, 2014

    Um, yes. Why would you assume I wouldn't?
     
  22. teacherman1

    teacherman1 Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,050
    Likes Received:
    0

    Mar 14, 2014

    Wrong again, Pash. If you'd like, we can go back to discussing PI and the dozens of kids who are being helped by it as we speak...:)
     
  23. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    4,395
    Likes Received:
    7

    Mar 14, 2014

    And further, I did read your post from today. So your source is an anonymous blog quoted in a WP post from 4 months ago?

    Ah. Well I'm convinced.
     
  24. teacherman1

    teacherman1 Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,050
    Likes Received:
    0

    Mar 14, 2014

    OK Start with this one. A real teacher named Christy Zamora in a real school in a real state.http://www.redhotconservative.com/texas-teacher-quits-cscope/
    And, coincidentally, she was using balanced literacy, too, before the crack-down.

    And another real teacher named Allison Rickett:http://www.tolerance.org/blog/teaching-around-script
     
  25. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    4,395
    Likes Received:
    7

    Mar 14, 2014

    And...that would be yet another example of an administrative decision.

    I'm not going to sit here and argue with you, teacherman. You can post blogs all day of people who are against CCSS.

    Then again, you can find blogs from people who are against posting cute pictures of puppies online. Blogs from people who are pro-slavery. Kiddie porn. Why the turkey should be our national bird. Etc, etc, etc.

    Does posting a blog really make a difference? Maybe. But right here, right now, this is reality. And you are choosing to ignore the 7 pages of posters who are telling you that...

    The content of the CCSS and the manner in which a school/district/state attempts to implement them is very different. In other words:

    Yes, the Common Core does have room for Dr. Seuss.

     
  26. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,985
    Likes Received:
    435

    Mar 14, 2014

    I am saying your bitter stance creeps into your teaching with children. It has an effect, it may be small, but it is there, to deny it is....
     
  27. teacherman1

    teacherman1 Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,050
    Likes Received:
    0

    Mar 14, 2014

    Had a feeling that would happen. I really need to take a break from this, so have a great weekend!:)
     
  28. ChristyF

    ChristyF Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2003
    Messages:
    6,699
    Likes Received:
    66

    Mar 14, 2014

    My principal happily gives me that freedom.in the past few years I've taught Because of Winn Dixie, My Side of The Mountain, Number the Stars, Sign of the Beaver, and Dear Levi.
     
  29. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    24,958
    Likes Received:
    2,112

    Mar 14, 2014

    Why isn't there a 'like' button on atoz?

    My 'reading program' embraces and respects teacher decision making. Hell yes, I can immerse my kids in genre or author studies...I can link the PROFESSIONAL decisions I make to CCSS ( or any standards I've seen thus far). I'm a professional educator. I can back up the pedagogical decisions I make...just as most of us can...
    I admit to being blessed to teach where I do. I'm so happy for my peers across the nation who are similarly free, like Christy, to make such choices...it's not a fluke though....great teachers will always find the place and a way to do what's right for their kids..l it's not about our egos and our comfort in how we do things...it's about delivering instruction that works for our kids, is sound, has a rationale...and yeah, while I'm a master teacher, I also wear mascara, foundation garments and awesome shoes...how dare anyone question the multifaceted existence of any effective, working, on the frontlines for their kiddies every day, kind of teacher?
     
  30. sevenplus

    sevenplus Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,719
    Likes Received:
    105

    Mar 15, 2014

    YES! I teach in a large district and we don't have a required reading program. Teachers are trusted as professionals to choose texts and materials. We use the CCSS as our guide but we are not told we must teach them one specific way.
    And several years ago when we did have a required program I didn't follow it and always had the full support of my administrators.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. ready2learn
Total: 220 (members: 2, guests: 198, robots: 20)
test