Do you have

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Tired Teacher, Aug 18, 2019.

  1. Tired Teacher

    Tired Teacher Comrade

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    kids with autism in your classes that can't function in a classroom? Or any type of Severely Emotionally Disturbed students?
    Do you have a resource teacher and an other teacher who works with nonverbal and lower function kids on the spectrum? Do the extremes have self contained programs?
    Or are you expected as a classroom teacher to take most of the responsibility for the child? I am asking because I know laws changed, it just does not make sense to me what we are being told to do.
    I do not know if it is because we do not have that 3rd teacher or if it is normal now. Thanks!
     
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  3. stephenpe

    stephenpe Connoisseur

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    We had two or three and they all had a full time aide the last 3 years. Autism. Brothers.
     
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  4. YoungTeacherGuy

    YoungTeacherGuy Phenom

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    In my district, the students with autism who are in our classrooms are generally high functioning. Occasionally, they'll have a one-on-one aide.
     
  5. Ima Teacher

    Ima Teacher Maven

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    I’ve had many students with autism. None have had an aide. Some are in a classroom with a SED co-teacher, but they typically have 5 to 10 kids in the room.

    Our only self-contained rooms are for FMD.
     
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  6. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    Yes. I have three right now who need various levels of high support. There is some push in support from a para and some from a sped teacher, but I’m also responsible for them alone at times. I just do what I can and call the office if needed.
     
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  7. Obadiah

    Obadiah Groupie

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    The ADA states that students be placed in the least restrictive environment. The IEP should have accounted for any difficulties the classroom environment might be causing and should be revisited if the classroom becomes restrictive. For the autistic student, and for many other students with differing abilities (I detest the term "disabilities"), a major challenge is interaction among the student's peers. The kids might not be cruel to the student, but they also might not be a friend with the student. I've met several Deaf adults who were mainstreamed and told how they played alone at recess. One told me that the only playmate he had in elementary school at recess was his interpreter.

    A resource that might be assistive, or give ideas, is the movie, No Ordinary Hero: The SuperDeafy Movie. There are 2 plots in the story, but one involves a Deaf boy in elementary school being bullied and also not being involved in peer relationships. (It is also quite a good movie! I thoroughly enjoyed it)!
     
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  8. Tired Teacher

    Tired Teacher Comrade

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    Obadiah, Doesn't it say "The least restrictive environment "a student can be successful in?" It seems like the 2nd 1/2 of that has been left off.
    What should success look like? If everyone else is doing math, a kid might be able to color a zero for a few minutes, but has no understanding of boundaries, voice levels, and maybe incapable of keeping their hands to themselves. Some throw things, some tantrums and spit, hit, kick, others swear like sailors. ( Just my experiences.....)
    I do not see how this is in the best interest of the child or other students. The learning of others is disrupted by the kids with such extreme problems. If a kid needs to see a picture to tell them to sit, stand, walk, etc and constantly disrupts the other students, aren't the " nondisabled kids rights" being violated?
    The last 5 years, we have been getting more and more of these types of kids in class. I do not have time to show "picture cards" to students who need them and teach at the same time. I didn't just mean autism. I was including kids who have very little communication skills, severe emotional problems who act out loudly and violently.
    In a small group, they need to be learning skills that teachers with full classrooms do not have time to teach. In a small room, fits are easier to deal with imo. I was not including kids w/ LD's or deafness. I see how they can learn socially. They do not do it at the expense of the rest of the class learning either usually.
    That is sad that the deaf student only had an interpreter to play with at recess. I know that happens too often with groups of kids who are different. I just think there is a better way than how we do it here.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
  9. Tired Teacher

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    Bella, It is good that you can get help from the office when needed. When we get a class w/ multiple extreme behaviors, we are mostly told to document. Sometimes a nonteacher will observe and give ideas. Often their ideas are things I have already tried or too time consuming. If the child isn't "successful" it is often blamed on the classroom teacher.
     
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  10. Tired Teacher

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    I have seen sibling groups that share similar problems too. There needs to be a special program to help these kids. I am sure there are in some places. We just do not happen to be one.
     
  11. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Obadiah

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    I thought of another resource that might be helpful to integrate within the classroom. In Martin the Cavebine, by Sara Nickerson, 1989, Martin behaves differently than the other cavebines (imaginary creatures), but his difference becomes the resource that rescues the cavebines. I've read that story every year in my classroom.

    Good point about how students should also be in a most successful environment! And, unfortunately in today's society, yes, in many cases the teacher is held responsible for results beyond the teacher's capability. The focus should be on the students, not on finding someone to blame.
    Mainstreaming isn't always the best solution, but when it is used, I do think a major factor in successful mainstreaming is acceptance of the student by the peer group. Another thought, and I realize this "kicks against the pricks" of how mainstreaming is sometimes set up by the administration, but it seems to me that trying to run two separate classrooms, one for the mainstreamed student and one for the other students within the same classroom defeats the purpose of mainstreaming in the first place. Because the mainstreamed student's brain is plastic and adjustable, s/he will adapt, as much as possible, to the regular classroom methods and procedures, if s/he is capable of being in the regular classroom. Of course, some modifications are expected, but the more the student is integrated within the regular classroom, the better--again, if the student is capable of being successful in the mainstreamed classroom.
     
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  13. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    Read the Federal and State laws.

    Most changes you see are not law changes but interpretation of the laws. If a district can get away with providing proper services, some will do so. They will often use subjective words within the laws to allow for services to be removed or not provided in the first place.

    Most likely, your district is pulling a fast one at the expense of the students and the teachers.
     
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  14. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    Yes. Our district has these programs but parents must fight tooth and nail to get their children into them in many cases.
     
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  15. Lisabobisa

    Lisabobisa Companion

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    I work at a specialized school for people with autism. It is considered one of the most restricted environments BUT students flourish here. Teachers and staff are experts in the field and know (and want to learn) the research based methods for reaching this population. Is it easy? NO! Do we see behaviors? YES Every single day!! Can it be replicated in the general education setting? Maybe not... especially because general education teachers AREN'T experts on autism, nor should they be expected to be. BUT, if a general education teacher is asked to try something with a student (such as picture cards... which by the way can be worn with your keys, taped to their desk and shown/pointed to a student with absolutely zero words needed while you are instructing other students. I do this every single day and it does not even break the flow of my instruction) by an expert in autism, then I'd like to think they'd try it before moving the student to a more restrictive environment.
     
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  16. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    This is what the law really means. Success must be shown by progress in educational and social, not just educational since social deficits are always present in autism as part of the disability.
     
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  17. Obadiah

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  18. Backroads

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    Philosophy of Backroads:

    I think mainstreaming, as a concept, as an option, is a great idea. I think when used appropriately, it's beneficial to the majority of students in the classroom for various reasons.

    I also speak of what a2z mentioned, what I call the phenomenon of mainstreaming somehow becoming "whoohoo, we don't need to have a SPED program".

    I saw elsewhere once a mom praising the forwardness of her kid's classroom when she realized most of the students had learned to tune out the apparently constant screaming of a SPED student in order to do their work. While working in bad conditions can be a useful skill for the worst of times, I highly doubted that was a "forward" classroom. Sounded more like it was a classroom where there was no working plan in place to serve the screaming child. Somebody had dropped the ball.

    The fact is, while every classroom will not be the ideal when it comes to a picturesque scholarly scene, any interruptions, student episodes, etc., should be at a minimum. Mainstreaming includes support and plans and strategies that do as I said before and keep craziness to a minimum. The class should proceed fairly orderly.

    If a mainstreamed student is absorbing an extreme amount of a teacher's time, if the student is a danger to other students or himself, if the student is not able to reasonably keep up in the class with appropriate adaptations and/or modifications, well, this isn't mainstreaming but nearly dropping an unprepared kid into an unprepared classroom.

    And some schools will do it because "money" and some parents will demand it because they, understandably, want normalcy for their student, even if it's not a good idea.

    To answer the original question, I've been fairly lucky. I had a student with autism who came with a very nice aid. I have had paras who will slip into the classroom for this and that.
     
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  19. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    I agree with the Philosophy of Backroads 100%.

    I'm nearly three full weeks into the school year and dealing with a situation where the flow of learning is disrupted multiple times per day due to screaming/shouting, eloping, hiding, and refusal to transition from one setting to another with the class. All of that makes the frequent refusal to do work seem minor. There is no para support for these students either. I lost it on another teacher over email last night after she seemed to accuse me of blowing it out of proportion and talked down to me, as if I don't understand how to work with kids with autism or other disabilities involving atypical behaviors. I've been a sped teacher, so I understand the perspective and the students. But, I've been a gen ed teacher too, and disruptions of this nature and frequency have no place in a gen ed classroom. When disruptions become excessive in severity and frequency, it's time to consider additional adult support or an alternate placement. Expecting a gen ed classroom teacher to support multiple students with severe behaviors without additional adults or a behavior plan is just inappropriate, and it certainly impedes the learning of peers and disrupts the classroom environment.
     
  20. otterpop

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    Or sometimes a nonteacher (such as a SPED director) who has never even seen you teach or met the student suggests things like, Well, have you tried a star chart? Like it will solve any problem.

    Huuuge petpeeve of mine, people trying to tell you what to do before they've even considered you might be a capable teacher.

    I had a student a few years ago that would not stay seated or stop intentionally interrupting instruction. Having exhausted most of my own strategies, I talked with our instructional coach, who literally suggested: have you tried telling him he's not allowed to leave his seat? :confused: SO not helpful and very typical of the backup we receive.
     
  21. Obadiah

    Obadiah Groupie

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    Oh, how many times have I seen that! And because the student is extra misbehaved that student gets extra prizes, big prizes! And of course, we'll keep it a secret from the other students. They'll never know where the kid is getting all his brand new Legos from the principal. I mean, that's how to manage ones self in life, isn't it? Forget about social norms like kindness and respect for others. Use others to get what you want, to get the bigger prizes.

    I'm being satirical, of course, but it seems like when we overdo incentives we're teaching an Ebenezer Scrooge philosophy rather than what I remember learning from Jiminy Cricket in the Walt Disney song, "...And always let your conscience be your guide."
     
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  22. otterpop

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    All true but my point is, when most teachers seek out assistance with a student or recommend that they need more support (at least, when I do), they've tried most of those strategies already: star chart, praising good behavior, preferential seating, frequent check-ins, etc. If having a star chart was going to be a magic solution, it would have been solved already. :rolleyes:
     
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  23. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    Yes. Reward charts and tracking and the like are fairly common in the education world these days. Chances are, the teacher has already gone that route. We're not looking for a new Pinterest suggestion, we're looking for an advanced tactic.
     
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  24. YoungTeacherGuy

    YoungTeacherGuy Phenom

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    Hands-down, the absolute most frustrating thing for me is when our district behavior "specialists" dole out advice via email. Then, when we finally get them to come out and observe the student facing difficulties, they point out everything the team (admin, teachers, support staff) have done wrong and need to fix prior to being able to proceed with the next step in the paperwork process.
     
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  25. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

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    I have one with autism being included into my class now. He was fine the first two days but had a para. The para said he was saying rude things about his sped teacher and another para. We'll see how it goes...
     
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  26. Tired Teacher

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    This about sums it up for what I have seen the last few yrs. Kids who are violent, highly disruptive, and pose a danger should not be shoved in a class of 20 some kids.
     
  27. Tired Teacher

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    This is exactly what is happening. I have a dear friend who will say, "I call BS" if something is really wrong, lying, or dishonest like this.
     
  28. Tired Teacher

    Tired Teacher Comrade

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    Same here and usually their specialists have very little experience teaching!
     
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  29. Tired Teacher

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    That is a really nice kid and article. This yr, I am blessed with some kids that sweet! They'll join hands and not say anything when the children w/ big problems are scared too. They'll help them with things they need help with too. They understand the ones who are different. However when kids are violent, I do not think they should be able to disrupt everyone's learning and safety. Kids to that extreme need to be removed..
     
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  30. Tired Teacher

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    I am just very curious how many kids are in a classroom at the specialized school. Do they have assistants to help? If you have to use picture cards w/ 3 kids while teaching 20 others, I am sorry, but that is asking too much of a teacher. Most of us did not "sign up" for some of the behaviors we see nowadays. Most of us are attempting to teach academics and how to survive in this world. ( Along with kindness.) The 3 I am thinking of do not read, write, or do math. I have no clue how anyone could say that is the best environment for the child.
     
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  31. Tired Teacher

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    This about sums up the situation we are in without the supports in place. I think it is more about $$$than kids.
     
  32. Tired Teacher

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    Bella, I have been "talked down" too also in the past. If I could put 100 likes on this, I would.
     
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  33. Tired Teacher

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    Otter, I have to be so careful not to roll my eyes "outloud"...lol) when I hear have you tried a sticker chart?
     
  34. Tired Teacher

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    Exactly. I am not a huge wave maker, but I refuse to give a kid a sticker/ prizes every time he raises his hand or doesn't hit someone even when Sped tries to put it on a behavior plan. If the child has never been taught not to hit at home, the school needs a special class to teach that child. Where the other kids are safe and learning. I have had kids ask in the past, "Why did he win a prize ( from the SPed teacher) 30 minutes after he hit someone?" How do you answer that and what message are we sending the other kids?
     
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  35. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    I was told the other day to start passing out marshmallows to all of the other kids in class and loudly over praise them for sitting the right way and doing their work. As if that wouldn’t disrupt the flow of learning in a first grade classroom... (imagine my eyes rolling here). Like I would still be able to confer during writing workshop and keep my class on task if I were just handing out marshmallows. Not to mention that it goes against everything I believe about classroom management. If the one child needs a special behavior plan, I’ll do it, but I refuse to involve the rest of the class in that one child’s plan. And I refuse to take my attention away from conferring in order to overpraise and make a scene just so that one child might do a small portion of his work - which I was told could be as little as tracing one highlighted letter that I wrote for him. Again, as if I have the time required to sit next to him, prompt him to get something out of him, and write it for him to trace. If he needs that much support, then he needs a para, especially given the fact that I have two other kids with autism and others with a variety of needs that aren’t related to autism but still require individual attention and support. Saying this with experience as a sped teacher: I think sped teachers sometimes think their students are the only needy students gen ed teachers have, which simply isn’t true. They think their strategies are reasonable to try because they don’t realize/understand/care that we have other students with needs too.
     
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  36. Obadiah

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    When I first started teaching, this was nicknamed "M&M Therapy", since M&M's were the common reward at that time. I recall watching a video in college of a teacher every few seconds dropping M&M's in students' cups. Of course, in the brain the sugar and/or chocolate acts as a drug, especially the chocolate with its 2 psychoactive ingredients. This induces a psychological dependence upon sugar which in turn becomes a health hazard; the child craves the reward from the sugar, and the craving for excessive sugar can overcrowd the intake of foods that really will develop the executive functioning of the brain, foods such as fruits and vegetables and whole grains. (Back to the M&M video, my psychology professor wasn't in favor of that type of behavior management, but he did comment, "Why not give them a carrot stick to munch on.") And in my mind, I can't help comparing this to training a puppy, including the excessive praise, not that honest appraisals to encourage a child are wrong, they aren't wrong, they're beneficial, but kids know when we're just putting on an act. Normal appreciation far exceeds a song and dance. Whispering to a child, "That was so helpful the way you raised your hand before speaking, today," does much more than, "Ooh! WONDERFUL! Look class, s/he raised her hand!!! Here, kid, have a marshmallow!"
     
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  37. Obadiah

    Obadiah Groupie

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    Sorry, I just thought of this--when our treatment of a special needs child is excessively different than our procedures with the rest of the class, aren't we superseding the whole purpose of mainstreaming in the first place? And aren't we calling attention to the child's differences rather than accommodating and working alongside their differences? Again, back to when I first began teaching, we were to expect students with differences to not become dependent upon the teacher. I taught at a school where the best high school wrestler could not use his legs. My (adult) friend in a wheelchair, he prefers to open doors for himself. Same is true with disruptive kids, they need to learn to behave, not learn how to get candy.

    A second thought, too. In my experience, aggressive kids, not always, but often are mimicking aggressive parents. Just a thought.
     
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  38. Backroads

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    I know I'm not the only Michael Linsen (Smart Classroom Management) fan here, but I always loved his focus on more subtle, authentic praise.

    It seems to me the marshmallows or M&M therapy are the easy recommendation. Perhaps the specialists and coaches would admit they aren't the end-all of management, but it's such an easy solution to suggest. Lets them check off a box of giving help.

    But I'm sure we can all share stories of how such tactics are distracting, time wasters, and don't work beyond the immediate moment.
     
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  39. MissCeliaB

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    I had a kindergarten class one time that had some pretty rough behaviors. I gave goldfish crackers to kids who stood in line right, sat nicely on the carpet, etc. It wasn't my favorite, and I left both that grade level and that school at the end of the year. But it gave me some much-needed sanity that school year.
     
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  40. vickilyn

    vickilyn Magnifico

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    So these are your new, non-offensive clapping pictures?? Love them, but I've never had a problem with any of them. Thanks for the smile.
     
  41. vickilyn

    vickilyn Magnifico

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    I work in one of the most restrictive environments for grades 7-12, short of those who have entered the penal system. The documentation that comes with these students is as thick as a book, details every modification that has been tried (a long list) and what has worked (a VERY short list), so we know, going in, that these students have been given the benefit of the doubt over and over, and among ourselves, we can only feel for every classmate that these students have ever had, and secretly "hear" every admonition their teachers have been given, and feel sorry for both groups. Because of that, to those of you who dealing with the younger versions of my students, document as if your life depends on it. Make sure admin and your child study teams hear everything you have to say, not as a whine, but as an astute and well trained professional who is tasked with the education of every child in your classroom.

    By the time they get to us, the doors are locked, guards are available, they have therapists at their beck and call, all of their teachers are qualified as SPED, and there are no main stream students to be found. My son was classified as a baby, and by second grade he was asking to get out of the resource room because it was too chaotic for him to function. I believed him. I later had some of those same students in a main stream class, and nothing had changed but their age. My hat is off to those of you who remain sane in the face of so much craziness.
     
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