I feel like there is a larger amount of judgement between teachers than other professions. I have been working since I was 16. I held tons of different jobs in high school and college. As an adult I was also a case manager. I never saw this amount of judgement in those jobs. Sure, there were people who just didn't like each other. But, in teaching I feel like everyone is always worried about someone else and what he/she is or is not doing correctly, but never offering any real constructive criticism. I walked in on a conversation the other day that made me physically ill. The PE Teacher was talking about a first grade teacher and how out of control her class is with her. First of all, I've seen this teacher a lot with her class, and I never noticed the issue. Secondly, if that teacher's students are misbehaving when they are with her (PE Teacher) it's her job to correct the behavior. It is also important to note that the first grade teacher is given some of the most difficult students because she is also special ed certified. Other teachers don't bother me because of the nature of my job. However, I had a therapist say something the other day that really made me mad. She said she was a "drill sergeant" compared to me, and then went on to say how I let a certain kid get away with murder. She sees the kid one day a week for 30 minutes. That's exactly what I told her, and she didn't say another word. I am confident in my ability to do my job. I just wish we could all support each other. Do you see this issue? Just think about how strong we could all be if we truly supported each other.
I see it all the time. At my school judgment seems to be placed on the teachers who are alternatively certified, unorganized, or have poor classroom management.
I think there's more gossip in general between female teachers. I hardly hear male teachers judging/gossiping about others.
Unless I have seen them teach, I pass no judgement. I feel there is more gossip of teachers and paras talking about admin. Teachers tearing down admins choices/decisions/noticings.
When I saw the title, my first thought was "absolutely," but not in the way you describe. I think teachers are extremely judgmental about their position vs. other teaching positions. I see it on here all of the time and IRL. It's like everyone thinks their job is the hardest and/or most important and they're convinced everyone else has it easier. I see it with secondary vs. elementary or even primary vs. intermediate, gen ed vs. sped, classroom teachers vs. specials teachers, etc. To me it is one of the most irritating things about the job!
I think, to a point, it's human nature to be judgmental. I mean absolutely no disrespect, but your post is an example of that. Right or wrong, you also judged the PE teacher and the therapist. Anytime there is a difference of opinion, I think there's a judgment made.
And yet, being AR, unorganized, or having poor classroom management skills are not necessarily linked to each other. Just an observation.
The teacher who works next to me started teaching later in life, and he probably doesn't need to teach or work anymore, but he does it out of a labor of love. I respect that, but I also think that he uses his perspective to judge other teachers who, I quote, "leave exactly at 3:30" (which is 45 minutes after our dismissal bell). I understand that he does this job because he loves kids and would probably do it for free, but for many of us, this is a job, and not a crusade. He is very anti-anything that provides benefits to teachers. I also sometimes get complained to about so-and-so teacher, when I really see nothing wrong with that teacher. I usually respond with a "Oh, I see," and leave to avoid getting into a judgmental feud. But I judge as well. There is one teacher everyone judges in our school, and I would say it is for a good reason. He has checked out, because he is near retirement.
Short answer: yes. Some schools are worse than others. There's plenty of it on this board (and everywhere on the internet). I just do my best to avoid it, or smile and nod.
Although I wasn't young when I started teaching, I believe in supporting the rights of teachers to earn benefits and improve their lot in life. I have no problem advocating for myself, which usually has an effect that benefits others. I also know that we are all on slightly different tracks, and if I stay late, I have no judgement against those who can get out right on time. I, too, will walk away to keep from getting sucked into what is more of a gossip fest than judgement. I see no advantage in stirring the pot, and am sometimes clueless why others feel the need to go there. I would hope that others would be as easy going as I am, but know that is not always the case. I don't think I would mind valid judgement that could be used to help me improve my efforts and actions, but hate to think that I may be judged simply because I am a somewhat private person in many ways, so sometimes we fear what we don't understand. Constructive criticism or honest praise are valuable; petty bickering and fanciful "what if's" are far from valuable. Here's hoping I can practice what I preach!
I see it, and do it, more than in other jobs I've had. For me, another teacher doing a bad job directly affects how difficult my day is. A teacher that doesn't pay attention to school rules makes my enforcing them more difficult. Depending upon the class makeup, shutting down the complaints and whining can be exhausting. For example, a certain demographic at my school is pretty much catered to in this respect. Teachers throw up their hands and say they can't "do anything with them" and allow the kids to listen to music, roam the halls when they're bored, etc. Holding the students accountable for their behavior is very hard to do once they've been with teachers like this. I work with teachers that just do not know the content they are teaching. I work with teachers that want to avoid the extra paperwork and conferences required when students are failing. As a result these types of teachers will give outrageous curves on test grades. Students receiving these inflated grades are friends with my students and I have all kinds of meetings at a result. Why is Johnny failing when Suzy has a C? I can't very well say because Mrs. Smith doesn't do her job, doesn't want to do her job and Suzy's C is a false representation of her ability. I see men do this same amount (proportionally) as I do women. FTR, I don't agree with the OP about the PE teacher's comments. While it is nice to think that the PE teacher should have complete control at all times, the regular classroom teacher's expectations make a HUGE difference. A rowdy first grade class is not going to magically switch gears as they walk into the gym. That PE teacher is going to have to spend part of her instructional time re-teaching those kids how to behave. I can totally sympathize with her.
Several of my departmental colleagues at my new school are pretty judgmental. I've had to endure a number of passive aggressive comments about how I'm able to "leave on time" or that I have it easy "because I'm male." Well, there's not much I can do about my gender, and the reason I can leave "on time" is that I come in an hour or more early every day so I am able. I like being home to get my daughter off the bus. As I've gotten to know them a bit, I've learned that they have pretty terrible lives, both professionally and at home. I've decided that it's not really about me and to shrug it off.
A rowdy group might not magically flip an on switch when they enter the gym, but a calm group might flip the off switch in the gym. It's possible that the classroom teacher lacks structure, but... just as an easy alternate explanation... since it's the special ed group, they are going to the gym without the second adult they normally have, and they likely have students who need a higher degree of structure than exists in many gyms. You take kids who are used to being with two adults, take one adult away, take away the structure they are used to, and throw them into an environment where running is not only allowed, but encouraged. It's a recipe for disaster.
I've been judged at lot at my current school. Unfairly judged and then gossiped about. So much that I found a new job for next year.
IA OP. In MY expierence, many teachers are very critical and judgemental of each other because everyone wants to be seen as the Best Super Teacher. It's like an never-ending competetion to see who is the best or most liked. With that, many teachers are too concerned with what their co-workers (who are not their boss) think of their job performance because they, too, want to be seen as the Best Super Teacher by others. In MY expierence, many teachers are too concerned with what others are doing, how other people are spending their time and what another person's students are doing in the classroom - all of which is none of their buisness, IMO. I have found that many of these "nosy gossips" are not trying to better their practice - they just want to prove that they are Super Teacher so they criticize and throw shade all day long. It's worse than my sorority days at Vandy.
I try not to judge other teachers if I don't know things they do first hand. A lot of aides are shuffled around so they say things about other teachers all the time. I usually nod and smile. I am known as the teacher who has a "structured" classroom so if other teachers compare themselves to me its not my problem but I won't take part in it.
I dealt with someone like this when I worked in private school. This person was my friend, a person who I helped get the job, and then she turned on me throwing me under the bus with lies (I never did anything wrong) any chance she got because I made more money than her and she was a miserable troll. I worked there longer and the 5 years I was their I never got a raise. All her butt kissing and "I'm such a great teacher" wasn't even going to get her a raise. I left that toxic environment and even after I left she was still talking about me throwing shade and telling lies. Obviously I'm no longer friends with her. It was disgusting how she tried to cut me down because I made 7K more at the time. She would complain to people that it wasn't fair I could afford to go on vacation. Like Really??!? Now I make double her salary by switching to public school. I'm sure she's heard through the grapevine about my switch and is still steaming mad. I never encountered someone that green-eyed over money that they would cut a person down within their teaching profession. Maybe this happens in other professions but teaching, that has to be a first.
My old school had plenty of judging going on. Mine now isn't nearly as bad, but at the end of last year the principle had to announce to the entire staff that she doesn't care who only sticks to contract hours as long as they're keeping up on everything and to stop telling her who doesn't stay 2 extra hours. I still see that quite a bit in the school. I do hate the notion teachers should be martyrs.
It's not just amongst teachers: it's with administrators, too. If you all could be flies on the wall during our VP meetings, you'd laugh your heads off. People trying to outdo the others, rolling eyes at each other, and snarky remarks being made while others are speaking are the norm. It's dog eat dog with VPs because everyone wants to be principal one day.
I could agree with the statement that teachers are more judgmental than most professions. After all, we are in a profession where we spend a large amount of time constructing rules and evaluating people. It makes sense that a higher percentage of us would be judgmental of our colleagues.
Oh i definitely see what you're saying. I work at two schools, and it is my first time teaching, and the first thing I noticed right off the bat was that the teachers in one school are far more judgmental and clique forming than the other school. Of course, this school with the judgmental teachers is also the school that does worse, from what I am seeing. I have no time to judge what another teacher is doing, honestly. I am there for the kids. And if they wanna treat me badly because they think I am not doing my job to their standards, then I brush it off and smile while I walk down the halls like I just won the **** lottery.
I also think people are judgey because teaching impacts human lives directly. Admittedly, it is hard for me to let it go when my colleagues slip on important accommodations, paperwork, or relationship-building moments with my students. I just want to scream "You are not fair! X only gets one shot at 7th grade!" Then I look up office jobs again. Because pushing paper was not nearly as emotional.
I agree with most posters...happens every where. Fortunately for me I knew early on...KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT & BE PROFESSIONAL at all times. Especially when it comes to your career, trust no one because business is business and you don't want anything to jeopordize it. Omg especially in year one I've heard ppl complain about other staff bodly and try to pry and I never comment, stay away, and say hi bye real casual. Keep personal and professional life separate and always be cautious because family and coworkers may sometimes see you within the community. At the end of the day. .. life. Give 100% and unless they have power to renew or non-renew to hell with them.
I also think that many teachers tend to want to be the one who "knows it all". Just today I was sitting with two of my colleagues at lunch who were debating over what system of daily reports works best of kindergarten. Neither or them are kindergarten teachers....it was hilarious. I really like both of these colleagues--one is a close friend in fact. However, both of these colleagues have the "I'm a teacher, I'm smart, and I'm always right" attitude. I was sitting there munching on my sandwich trying not to laugh as they were volleying back and forth.
This!!! I have one coworker who never really collaborates. Team planning she only uses her books and ideas. Rubbed me the wrong way but oh well.
I, too, have been working since the age of 16. It's hard to say if I felt judging or not. When you are 16, in a new country, without the language, without knowing how the society works, in a big melting pot called NYC, whether people were judging or not was the last thing that concerned me for many years. Now, after 23 years in US, I can definitely say that even as a sub teacher I can feel judgments among teachers occasionally. You know those instances when a teacher is not really out for the day, she is there, but busy with the meetings and such. Then, as a sub, you get to deal directly with that teacher. Well, I had a few, where I could definitely feel the judgment in my face. Especially one. She treated me as if I was a piece of ****. She was a special education teacher, didn't have a big case load. She was sure that the job she was leaving me should sound ABSOLUTELY easy to do. Well, it may be, if you grew up in US, if you go to school here, if things like consonant blends, diagraphs, etc. come easy and natural to you. Well, for me a lot of those things don't come natural. And I usually, when I get a chance, try to be annal about it, and understand exactly what I should do with the students that I'm sub-teaching. When a teacher is out, and leaves me her plans, it's easy. if it's a particularly difficult topic for me, I would re-read the instructions many times, get myself familiar with the materials. However, this teacher didn't write any plans. She counted on explaining it quickly to a sub, and get going. I'm NOT a audial learner. And I can hardly remember difficult instructions when they are given to me in a rushed and obviously very-annoyed-at-my-slowness-kind-of-way. Once this teacher sensed that I wasn't as quick as she would like me to be, the rest of the instructions she was giving me that day (and there were a lot!) she delivered in such a way as if I was a mentally slow person and needed very thorough explanation of everything. Brrr, it was some experience!
This is a flat out rant with nothing constructive to add...really. You'll get to the bottom and agree with me on that. I just got off of an hour long phone conversation with my wife who in turn had to vent after being treated like dirt yet again by a co-worker. I came here to ask why it seems that there are more toxic personalities in teaching than any other profession I've ever seen, and figured I could just glom on to this thread of creating a new one. Granted, I haven't been a cop or a longshoreman or worked in the entertainment industry, so there is plenty of opportunity to be trumped, but I've had a few jobs in the last 30 years and spent half of that time as a consultant working with thousands of people in hundreds of companies in education, transportation, manufacturing, retail, finance, healthcare, insurance, law enforcement, federal, state and local governments, department of defense, etc. etc. and the stories I hear from my wife and her coworkers consistently make my jaw drop. TO BE CLEAR, I also think that some of the BEST people on the planet can be found in the classroom...people that selflessly dedicate their lives to be a positive role model and source of valuable tools and knowledge to equip future generations to do great things. I love teachers, I'm married to one, I'm related to six of them, I love the profession and my heart breaks for the derision and disrespect that our society (in the US anyway) treats our educators. BUT holy moly there are some nefarious, malicious and caustic personalities among the ranks, making life miserable and more difficult for the rest year after year after year. Some are in admin and some are educators, and they are both a blight on the profession. Of COURSE these personalities exist elsewhere, but usually they can be corrected or contained or fired. Not in education it seems, they just foul up the place like a persistent abscess. Part of me thinks that there are too many folks willing to put up with the behavior and just let it go unchecked...maybe to avoid conflict or being chided by administration. Part of it goes back to the comfort of being difficult to fire. Part of it goes, I'm sure, to just being frustrated and unhappy with the state of things...dealing with idiot parents, disrespectful students and a bleak outlook on the future of education in the US. But regardless of the source i really think more could be done to make schools a nicer place to spend a majority of your day. I just wish I knew what that was. That's all, useless rant over.
I don't think your rant is unrelated to this thread! Nor useless! I work with similar characters you've described and when I interact with them I think to myself WHY they decided to become teachers. Maybe that's me judging them. Maybe they are amazing with the kids and just suck at dealing with peers? I don't know. However, it KILLS me to see other gossip about other colleagues. I think there's a fine line between gossip and discussing an issue that DOES concern the children. I'm a head teacher at my school and I'm a mentor for two colleagues. One of them struggles a lot. I've had to discuss the issues I've observed in his classroom with my admins, but it's for constructive reasons. I do it because it's my job and I genuinely want my colleague to get better. However, I see a lot of colleagues GOSSIP about him and others when they've never stepped foot in their classroom. It's really hurtful and wrong.
Not too much at my school--at least I haven't witnessed it. I have heard about some teachers that do pass a lot of judgement, but in general I find that my colleagues are pretty supportive. I will admit, however, that I really kind of stick to myself most of the time and speak mostly to teachers that I like and already trust. I am curious to listen to gossip but I really don't actively look for it or spread it. I am sure it happens. Not sure it happens more than in other professions. If so it might be because classroom management is something that all teachers have to do and therefore all teachers may feel entitled to judge other teachers' abilities or lack thereof; whereas in most workplaces each employee has different tasks that aren't easily judged by the other employees. Just a guess.
that's an interesting point! also, because teacher all do similar job that is CREATIVE, and so there is room for critique. On a factory workers also all do the same thing, however, there are not much room for creativity or improvement
