Do I tell the principal?

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by terptoteacher, Aug 27, 2012.

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  1. terptoteacher

    terptoteacher Connoisseur

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    We got our state test scores today. The only section my students did poorly on was the strand that my student teacher taught. Our curriculum doesn't address geometric sense so we had supplemental materials. My student teacher took that on. Only 36% of my students made standard in that area, where 80% met standards in the other tested areas.

    Do I pass the blame onto my student teacher? I was ultimately responsible however she was soloing by then and I was out of the room. It's an obvious drop since the majority did well in all other areas and that one just stands out.

    I don't want to pass the buck, but I also don't want my administration to think I'm not an effective teacher.
     
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  3. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Were you supposed to be out of the room during her student teaching? In my program that was not allowed at any point during the student teaching experience.

    I do think that you are ultimately responsible for ensuring that your students learn the material, even when there's a student teacher. I don't think you should be passing the buck.
     
  4. Mathemagician

    Mathemagician Groupie

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    This is why (well, actually there are other reasons) in my state the cooperating teacher cannot leave the room. The idea is for the cooperating teacher to give feedback. Did you notice that her lessons may have been ineffective and give her suggestions to improve, or did you not observe her enough to tell?
     
  5. Rebel1

    Rebel1 Connoisseur

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    You are responsible for what your students took from the ST.
    Did you check with the students after you returned to the room?
    It would be your fault instead of the ST, because you are the main teacher, and you should have checked with your students and the ST about what you missed, SO you can enlighten them about any mistakes in the lesson, and how it was taught.
    Sorry, but that's how I see the situation.
    Rebel1
     
  6. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    My CT was not to leave the room either. She did...every day...but that was a no-no.

    I wouldn't "pass the buck", but I would address this with your principal. Explain your student teacher taught this with supplemental materials...and that you have learned to handle things differently should you get another student teacher. Meaning, of course, greater oversight.

    It's tough. If your student teacher sucks, can you really afford the time to unteach/reteach everything he or she attempted to cover?
     
  7. terptoteacher

    terptoteacher Connoisseur

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    Yes, I had to be out of the room.
    You're right I was ultimately responsible.
    I guess if there had been more time from her delivery to the test I would've been able to double check to see if the kids understood. Live and learn I guess.
     
  8. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Her program required you to be out of the room? How was she observed and evaluated?
     
  9. Mathemagician

    Mathemagician Groupie

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    And was this the only strand she taught too? I know I taught a whole half of a year full schedule.
     
  10. terptoteacher

    terptoteacher Connoisseur

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    The first portion of her st she was observed. The last few weeks she was solo.
     
  11. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    Math, I know I was ony fully responsible for the Vikings unit which was two weeks in length.
     
  12. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    This sounds like a bad or potentially problematic program. I wouldn't want anyone in my classroom teaching my students under my authority or responsibility if I couldn't see them teach and ensure that my students were learning. It's my name on their report card.
     
  13. terptoteacher

    terptoteacher Connoisseur

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    Hers was a ten week st experience. The college only required 4 weeks of teaching but we had her teaching 7 weeks out of the 10.
     
  14. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    My student teaching was only 8 weeks or so, maybe 10 (can't remember). I was responsible for teaching everything in all the classes, but my cooperating teacher was always present, per my program's requirements.
     
  15. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    terp, did you anticipate this? Or did you get the impressions things were going well?

    I have to say, with so much emphasis on test scores for teacher evaluations (which for many influences income), I wouldn't be surprised to see fewer teachers accepting STs. I know it's already a problem in some areas.
     
  16. Mathemagician

    Mathemagician Groupie

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    That's surprising, although I guess elem might be different.
     
  17. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    Mine was from January through mid-May, and I did teach regularly the entire time (after some "orientation" days). But I was only fully responsible in terms of planning, creating, scoring, and so forth for that one unit. Other times I was teaching her lessons.
     
  18. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    It was middle school. :)
     
  19. Rebel1

    Rebel1 Connoisseur

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    Know what? Check with your students about why they feel they messed up on this part though. Sometimes kids can give you a different feedback, and you can use it to your advantage. You'll never know unless you ask.
    Rebel1
     
  20. Mathemagician

    Mathemagician Groupie

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    Mine was Sept to Dec. I observed for like 1 week, taught 3 of 5 classes for 2 weeks, and taught all 5 classes for the remaining 13 weeks. I made everything for my lessons (although she shared resources of course). It was a great learning experience.
     
  21. terptoteacher

    terptoteacher Connoisseur

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    I did suggest to my principal that we not accept student teachers in a testing grade level.
    I knew the kids found her boring, but they seemed to do well on her other assessments. No I didn't anticipate how low the scores would be. I thought maybe it was proof that we need more than our supplemental info. but the other classes did well in that area.
     
  22. terptoteacher

    terptoteacher Connoisseur

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    I wish I could. Those kids are now at another school nearby.
     
  23. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Solo teaching shouldn't mean alone in the room...she's not certified or licensed yet...YOU are ultimately responsible...for the kids, and their grades.:sorry:
     
  24. terptoteacher

    terptoteacher Connoisseur

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    Just going by the parameters set up by the college. Guess I shouldn't have.
     
  25. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    I don't think you can be blamed for following the instructions of the program.
     
  26. mrachelle87

    mrachelle87 Fanatic

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    Here in Oklahoma it is the same...we can make "surprise" visits, but we are suppose to allow him or her time to build an experience like their own room. Different colleges do it differently. My husband has a student teacher each spring. He has an office off of his classroom with a glass wall. So while he isn't in the classroom, he can observe and watch for times that he might be needed. He also meets with his ST daily to check their lesson plans. Last spring he had a female ST...she decided it was ok to go to lunch one day while he was at a state meeting with the senior boys. She couldn't understand why that poor choice might be a problem. Sadly, unless he was with her 24/7 he wouldn't have known about it. It just so happens that one of the seniors texted my son who told his dad. Open campus...no duty...so she did what she wanted. Apparently they didn't warn her about situations like that in college.
     
  27. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    :sorry: I've had a few STs...it's not an easy thing...a bit of a dance, relinquishing control but still being ultimately responsible.
     
  28. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    I don't get it. Open campus, no policy against it...why was it a bad choice for her to leave to grab lunch?
     
  29. Rebel1

    Rebel1 Connoisseur

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    Like you said about live and learn.
    SO take it in stride, get off board, and treat yourself to your favorite late night snack! Make it a nourishing one!
    :eek:hmy:I just had 2 ice cream cones; which isn't good, BUT it tasted so good!
    Rebel1
     
  30. mrachelle87

    mrachelle87 Fanatic

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    Leave to get lunch..no problem...leave to get lunch in a car with five senior boys when you are a cute 22 year old...PROBLEM. A male ST with five senior girls would be hung. She put herself and her supervising teacher in a potential situation that could have backfired on her.
     
  31. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    I was wondering this too. I didn't understand your original wording. It sounded like your husband was at a state meeting with senior boys, not that the ST went to lunch with senior boys while your husband was at a state meeting.
     
  32. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    Oh... Got it. :)

    I read it as your husband being with the guys at state.
     
  33. iteachbx

    iteachbx Enthusiast

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    Your school should be the ones ultimately in control of the situation- since you are the ones responsible for the students. I would never let a student teacher or her professor/college tell me I need to leave her alone in the room with the students and my school would never allow it either. There's no way the ST can't be in control/have a great experience with the CT still in the room.
     
  34. Math

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    Last school year there was a student teacher in one of my classes. The cooperating teacher left the room several times.
     
  35. Mathemagician

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    That's illegal in NJ.
     
  36. Math

    Math Cohort

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    I remember one time I asked where the teacher was and I was told he goes to the library this period.
     
  37. MissCeliaB

    MissCeliaB Aficionado

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    Some of our teachers would sit in the hall with the door open to listen for part of the time. I had to be responsible for all subjects for about two months. I started with half the day, then was teaching the whole day. My coop teacher wasn't supposed to leave, but she would occasionally run to the bathroom or something.
     
  38. silverspoon65

    silverspoon65 Enthusiast

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    This brings up yet another variable for test scores.

    I am surprised at how many people had to be supervised by their CT at all times - any program I have ever heard of in this area has required the teacher to be out of the room more and more throughout the day. How do you learn to be comfortable alone with the students?
     
  39. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    OP, I would mention it to the principal.

    Not to sell out someone who isn't in the building to defend herself, but to bring up an important issue.

    Personally, I'm too much of a control freak to give someone else my class and walk out of the room. I've had other people teach my kids, but I was there in the back, taking notes. It's not even totally about the material, though of course that's an issue as well. But if there were ever a real problem-- say, a fight or a kid with a medical issue-- I would want to be there with my class.

    If a college had a problem with that, then I guess I wouldn't be a good candidate to host a student teacher for that college. Ultimately it's the college's job to prepare the student teacher; my job is those high school students.

    They're my kids. I'm there to supervise and teach them as necessary.

    It seems to me that this issue needs to be addressed by your administration.
     
  40. gamerTeacher

    gamerTeacher Rookie

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    Depending on the ST previous certification ( if they had a substitute license or something similar), it may be illegal for them to be alone in the classroom with kids. Now that I'm getting my certification for the US, I cannot, according to law, be left alone in a room with adolescences, solo teaching time or not. For my solo teaching, my teacher will sit in the back and not speak. Additionally, she will check over my assessments, both formal and informal, to be sure the students understand.

    Even if you were following the university standards, you still should have been checking the students progress. Didn't they take a test, write a paper, or have an assessment of some kind? You should have noticed then and re-taught. Ultimately, their learning was your responsibility and you failed them.
     
  41. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    Really? Really? :rolleyes:
     
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