Disrespect

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by Grammy Teacher, Jun 8, 2011.

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  1. Grammy Teacher

    Grammy Teacher Virtuoso

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    Hi, well I suppose this thread will be closed or I will be ganged up on, but it doesn't matter because I have something to say.
    I have been a member of the forum for years and years and I think it's an amazing forum. Sometimes, because we"re all different, discussions get heated. Sometimes people think they have the right to say anything they want to because???
    Everyone needs to remember that we all have feelings. To react to someone's topic in a mean, personal manner, makes that person no better than the controversial topic at hand.
    I feel the way that many of you talked to Ms. I recently is uncalled for and I think you all owe her an apology, whether you agree with what her posts said, or not. Disagree, yes, but it's disturbing how personal some you got with her.
     
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  3. Kat53

    Kat53 Devotee

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    I agree. I felt like I was watching on the sidelines, not wanting to jump in, because I didn't condone the topic, but couldn't believe how meanly people were responding.
     
  4. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    I wasn't being mean for the sake of being mean. I said the things I did because I felt that she wasn't listening and was being stubborn and hard-headed about something that was exceedingly cruel and heartless. Do I think that her actions are as bad as those of her boyfriend's "a$$hole" father? Youbetcha. Mature, thoughtful, kind people don't plot mean ways to enact revenge using living creatures. Such blatant disregard for life and such a stubborn need to hurt someone who hurt you (rather than actually letting go and "being done" as she said she was, so many times) make me sick, truly disgusted.

    The things I said may not have been pretty, but they were honest and they came out of my concern for all parties involved. If Ms. I and her boyfriend go through with this activity, they will not be good, decent, mature, thoughtful people. She obviously isn't aware of that and needed someone to tell her. I'm still not sure that she has gotten the message, but I am happy with myself for speaking up. Who is going to speak up for that creature? I realize it's an eww-gross-spider, but it's a living creature. How big of a leap is it to imagine that Ms. I and her boyfriend might be pulling a "prank" next year using a live rat? Then a live snake? Then a live cat? Would you be okay with the idea of them sending one of those animals in to fulfill this "prank" and it getting stomped on and maimed or killed? Would that be okay? What kind of person would sit by and NOT say something about that being morally wrong? Even if it makes me unpopular, I have a personal, moral obligation to tell a person when I think that they're doing something terrible, especially when they're going to poll for opinions about that topic on a message board. To me, hurting animals is wrong whatever the reason, and especially when it's done just to make someone have a good laugh. To me, hurting people is wrong whatever the reason, and especially when it's done just to make someone have a good laugh.

    I spoke to Ms. I in private messages and explained my feelings and where they were coming from. She apologized to me and others for the things she said in the thread. As far as I'm concerned, the issue has been resolved from her standpoint as well as mine, so I don't think it's necessary for you to begin a thread like this and fight for someone who doesn't need you to. You may be able to sit by and not say anything when someone talks about, really almost gloats about, planning an act of violence against animals and humans, but please don't act surprised and put-out when someone else doesn't agree that that's okay.
     
  5. Ms. I

    Ms. I Maven

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    OK, I was just going to PM this to Caesar, but I think more people should know. The above statement you said here now makes me want to defend my BF. You have no idea what his dad's done to him in his life. I said I could write pages, but I didn't get into specifics, but now I feel I should defend my BF. His dad..

    did what in my book would be considered sexual abuse to my BF. For a brief time when my BF was a kid, his dad would "for fun" hit him in the nuts as just "playing around", but of course his dad wouldn't do that when my BF's mom wasn't around. I'm furious that that happened! :mad:

    My BF got a settlement for an extremely serious injury he got when he was in HS. He was in woodshop class, the electric saw broke & split this whole thumb & his loser dad had no sympathy, but instead stole $ from his settlement & tried to get him to buy him things. If I had known my BF back then, I would have suggested that he invested the $, but it's all gone now, which really angers me.

    My BF's dad screwed over his OWN mother by owing her a lot of $. She recently passed, so now he can never repay her. He's instead complaining about how her funeral expenses will be given for him to pay.

    BF's dad has cheated on the mother & his GFs after that. He owes my BF money.

    The dad's screwed over my BF's sis who not only doesn't want him to walk her down the aisle in her upcoming wedding, but she doesn't even want him there. The dad screwed over my BF's other bro so much that to the bro, the dad is dead to him. My BF & I wouldn't want him at our wedding either if we get married.

    His dad caused my BF to lose his mobile home that used to belong to his gradparents because there was one of a few times his dad had to move in w/ him & the dad didn't pay the rent to the landlords & they both got kicked out. It was no biggie to his dad. He just moved in w/ whoever his GF was at the time.

    If you ask me, my BF's been way too, too nice to his dad &has given him unteen chances because my BF's known as the softie pushover of the kids. I also think his dad should be in jail. My BF wouldn't be surprised if he has loan sharks after him & my BF & I have even talked about his safety about how low-life sharks don't just come after the guy owing them $, but they can go after his family as well.

    The dad's just a broke down, yet egotisical, smug, a-hole who doesn't have a pot to p!!s in. Do you think I like people who treat my BF like that, who's nothing like him BTW? Of course it saddens me. The dad probably doesn't care for me too much (which I could care less) because he knows that I can see the real him rather than the facade he portrays to the rest of the world.

    Then, there's endless other incidences I could write about, but I won't.

    I'll never care for his dad & don't care if I ever see his face ever & if my BF & I get married, neither of us want our kids to see him. My BF's bro keeps his kids/wife as far away from the dad as possible.

    My upbringing & home life is so completely different. Loving parents who sacrificed for me. I'm an only child who yes, did get a lot in life & I've never taken it for granted. I appreciate every day I'm on this earth. I just wished my BF had the type of parents & family life I did, but a lot of people do not. :(

    (But, yeah when people have flies in the house, they kill them w/ a flyswatter, so I think bug killing is the last thing on my BF's mind, since you all think the spider will be killed, which I still never said it would be.)
     
  6. i8myhomework

    i8myhomework Comrade

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    Jun 8, 2011

    I haven't posted on here much- a whopping four times, but I do read and scan these forums. I've learned so much and have gotten a decent amount of information from these boards.

    However, I never feel very compelled to join in on discussions or be more of an active poster. Mostly, due to what GrammyTeacher is pointing out. A topic will get started, and it always seems like throughout its run, a.) someone eventually gets ganged up on or b.) Someone focuses too much on one point, and it steers off the direction of the entire thread. Conversations, in general, tend to do this, but it goes far too far off the original topic, and not in a positive way.

    I've noticed, by reading, I tend to have a lot of different opinions than everyone else on here. If I were to actively post, I'm dead certain I'd have to spend a majority of my time defending my position. There is a lot of bullying that I think occurs here. The recent "Prank" thread disgusted me, honestly. Everyone focused more on the story that the OP told, more than the question on the thread. Opinions are fine, but being outright rude is not (at least, to me). Yes, this is an internet forum, but have the rules of etiquette drastically changed so much that not even a group of teachers can remain somewhat civil?

    Opinions, fine. Even strong opinions... hell, why not. Personal attacks... not okay.

    This is all my two cents. I'm "lurker", so I guess you can take what I say with a grain of salt. But threads like those do discourage me from posting, which saddens me, since this can, often times, be such a great source of information and advice. I'll continue to read, but behavior in certain threads is always going to be, well, off-putting.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2011
  7. Marci07

    Marci07 Devotee

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    I agree that the comments towards Ms. I have been out of line lately and I'm not only referring to the one abou the pranks. I noticed this when she got harsh replies about the mama's boy thread. I couldn't believe the way people were responding. IMO it was way out of line.

    This forum has always been known for the great understanding and respect towards people's posts. Many people feel safe posting on this site that they wouldn't feel on any other sites. I hope we keep it this way.
     
  8. cutNglue

    cutNglue Magnifico

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    Some things are better approached in PM (when we feel the need to stand up, help, etc.)
     
  9. msmullenjr

    msmullenjr Devotee

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    There have been many times when I have both agreed and disagreed with MsI, and I feel as though I stated my opinion strongly because I had strong feelings. If I came across as disrespectful, I apologize.
     
  10. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    And I guess this is a problem that I see quite frequently among my students. When they are advised to stop doing the wrong thing and start doing the right thing, they view it as "mean". I don't think that's true. I think that if you know about someone's plans to be hurtful and you don't do your best to let them know that what they're doing is wrong, then you're essentially complicit in the act. Many people attempted to tell Ms. I kindly that her plans went too far, weren't fun, weren't funny, were mean, and don't constitute a "prank", but she continued to defend her plans. At that point, tactics were changed out of necessity. She needed to hear that what she is planning to do is wrong. She may not like the way that message came across, and you guys may not like it, but the fact remains that the message needed to be sent. If you want to call that bullying, so be it. I don't see it that way. I see it as standing up for someone who can't, which is sort of the opposite of bullying. I guess it depends on which perspective you're looking at this matter from. It seems to me that a few people here are looking at this matter from the perspective of someone who wants to take revenge on someone who hurt her boyfriend, and others view it from the perspective of the creature who will be used as bait, and others view it from the perspective of the father who sounds like a jerk but isn't here to defend himself either.

    After Ms. I's most recent post here, I'm convinced that she doesn't get it yet. I do hope that she reconsiders this "prank", as I told her in private messages. All the reasons she just listed above don't justify cruelty, in my mind. What they do justify is shutting this guy out of her life, which is what I recommend she do. Hurting an animal to "get back" at this guy for punching his kid in the nutsack seems illogical.

    I'm probably about to bow out, lest I continue to be called a bully. I wonder, though, does that constitute bullying? I'm trying to do the right thing here, not trying to be mean, but people are personally attacking me and calling me a bully. Maybe that's not entirely fair either. Just sayin'.
     
  11. VANewbie

    VANewbie Devotee

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    I agree with Grammy and i8myhomework.

    I said this a loooonnng time ago when I was known under a different user name. I try to stay out of certain threads now for fear my head will be chopped off for giving my "personal" opinion. It has happened before.
    I personally feel this place is great to get support on teaching related things but sometimes people take other threads too serious.

    -Don't chop my head off for this post.:blush:
     
  12. DizneeTeachR

    DizneeTeachR Virtuoso

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    I think when you post a question that is opinion driven you are going to get different opinions & like Grammy have to be respectful... sometimes you have to agree to disagree.

    I also think that there are some who don't open their minds to the other side either. Some are so "stuck" in their ways that to think outside of the box is hard.

    It is hard, but sometimes you have to not click on that thread. I know I've been sucked back in because I've wanted to defend something...

    I haven't read the "Prank" thread.
     
  13. Marci07

    Marci07 Devotee

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    I agree.
     
  14. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    Ms. I, just to be clear, I don't think anyone is under the impression anyone would purposefully kill the spider in the prank you've proposed. I thought that perhaps your boyfriend's father would would see the critter, freak, and then react by swatting or batting, thus possible killing the spider.

    I see a difference in killing things which invade your home (even though I don't do this either...you know how much I love mice, and I let bugs outside) and purchasing a pet spider and then having little or no regard for it's life.

    I'm sorry your boyfriend and his family have such poor relationships with their father.

    I appreciate the message you've sent to several of us.

    I don't want anyone to feel bullied.

    I don't want anyone to be hurt.

    I don't want anything to be hurt.

    I want everyone to see the intentions behind every post. I think we're all coming from essentially a good place. Some are wanting to protect a man, a spider, or point out something they feel is inappropriate. Ms. I, you are wanting to support your boyfriend, even though we don't agree in the way you've chosen to support and defend him against his father.

    I know people can be passionate about issues, and that passion can result in hurt feelings. I still remember being accused by a member here of something along the lines of purposefully posting controversial topics just for kicks (and I still hold a grudge over that one! :p), so I do understand how hurtful some of our discussions can be. Hopefully we can all take everything in, reach a conclusion that we're happy with, and move forward.
     
  15. Grammy Teacher

    Grammy Teacher Virtuoso

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    There is absolutely no good reason to keep bringing up Ms. I and her intentions.
    That is not what this thread is about. It's about how we respond and disagree. That's great! But...personal attacks on someone is not a kindness. Why keep repeating the same old thing over and over again? Stop it! It's so ridiculous and makes some of you look like fools!
     
  16. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    I adore this group and everyone in it, even when we bitterly disagree on a certain topic. If it gets the point where my temper starts to get to me, I ignore the particular posts in order to continue enjoying the virtual company of the poster in other areas of the forum.

    As for the pranking stuff, I personally don't even like someone jumping out and saying BOO!, so I avoided that thread for that reason. I'm assuming it got much deeper than that. Don't tell me about it here, please, I don't want to stir up any more harsh feelings.

    So, when is everyone coming to visit me in person in central Ohio? The best ice cream in the world is a quick walk from my house. You can order it online by the pint, but near me you can try it by the taster spoon.
     
  17. scienceteach82

    scienceteach82 Cohort

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    I agree. There are those that take their responses to a personal level. It really irritates me. Ms. I has been taking a lot of heat lately for her opinions...but that's just the nature of so many different thinking people. Not at all bad to have differing opinions...but to attack someone for their beliefs or morals is wrong. If you don't like it, just say so and move on. Don't tear the person apart. I'm sure we all have moments that might not be very defining of our character.
    I think a fake spider would be better btw...
     
  18. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    Wow. :unsure:
     
  19. DizneeTeachR

    DizneeTeachR Virtuoso

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    ST... I agree... but I think the problem is some people state their opinion to open someone's eyes just a little bit & other posters take it as "I'm going to make my point & it's the only way" kinda attitude. (I'm not even naming names just in general on some posts I've even posted to.) Some people just can't say ok & be done they have to keep pushing & I know I don't like to be pushed... so we all go to that "animal instinct" of fight or flight. I walk away from some, but others I just want to yell "PLEASE THINK ABOUT THIS IN A DIFFERENT WAY!!!"
     
  20. webmistress

    webmistress Devotee

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    My comments in the thread were respectful, though I stated that (the prank) was not a cool thing to do. I believe that I was still very respectful.

    I felt bad when I saw the Pm from Ms I. I don't have time to respond to it so I'll just say that I don't think you owe anyone an apology. It was nice of you to send the PM, but it's something I would not do....(and I can say from experience I have engaged in some emotional & heated & personal & hurtful down right vicious discussion board wars on other forums when I was younger).

    That's why I try to choose my words very carefully now. It's emotionally draining, hurtful, and it's about as bad if not worse as arguing with someone in person.
     
  21. Marci07

    Marci07 Devotee

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    Kat53, your link was very appropiate and thought provoking. To bad you removed it.
     
  22. TeacherShelly

    TeacherShelly Aficionado

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    What the? This thread is about respectfully disagreeing and the last sentence puts an exclamation point on a disrespectfully disagreeing post (name calling?) Ugh. :dizzy:
     
  23. TeacherShelly

    TeacherShelly Aficionado

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    +1
     
  24. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Do you not find it even the tiniest bit hypocritical that you personally attack others by calling them fools in a thread you started about disrespect and remembering that people have feelings and not personally attacking others?

    See how frustrating it is for you to see things repeated? That's how frustrating it is for others to see things repeated. You resorted to personal attacks when you got frustrated, yet you call others out for doing the same thing.

    If your intentions are to make this forum a happy place where everyone feels included and respected, perhaps you can start with your own actions. Calling people "fools" isn't going to accomplish what you're after.
     
  25. Kat53

    Kat53 Devotee

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    Good points. For me, the difference is some posters who CONSTANTLY criticize others, to the point where I know how they'll respond even before they post. And some are long-standing members who you just can't disagree with.
     
  26. scienceteach82

    scienceteach82 Cohort

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    I agree, Kat.
     
  27. VANewbie

    VANewbie Devotee

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    :thumb::whistle:
     
  28. Marci07

    Marci07 Devotee

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    With all respect, the comments against Ms. I have seemed to be like a group ganging up against her. Even bullyish. I think this is the whole point of this thread and I can see how Grammy Teacher can get frustrated when there doesn't seem to be any reflection on this type of attitude that has been happening lately.
     
  29. Kat53

    Kat53 Devotee

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  30. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    So it's okay for some people to get frustrated when other people don't do enough reflection, but it's not okay for others to get frustrated when people don't do enough reflection?

    I'm clearly not understanding how this works.

    Many of the comments in this thread have been so vague and enigmatic that I honestly don't know if people are referring to me or to others anymore. If it is about me, feel free to PM me. I don't mind hearing what you have to say.
     
  31. Marci07

    Marci07 Devotee

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    I give up.
     
  32. DizneeTeachR

    DizneeTeachR Virtuoso

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    EXACTLY!!! I knew I wasn't the only who felt this way!! :D

    That's why when people enter some threads you can either enter & know what your in for or just avoid it... Which I try to do when I really have a strong opinion one way or the other. Debates just tend to get into "NAH that can't happen. Or that is way to outside the box."

    To go with the disrespect.. I do find it ironic that some threads that are just "thrown up there" get more hits than something like WWII vets or Memorial Day. I posted something about it & there weren't has many hits as some other threads... kinda sad. (Someone brought that to my attention.)
     
  33. Grammy Teacher

    Grammy Teacher Virtuoso

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    Yep, I did it on purpose to see how long it would take someone to jump on it. Good job!
     
  34. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    :dizzy::dizzy::dizzy:

    Goodnight everyone.
     
  35. Grammy Teacher

    Grammy Teacher Virtuoso

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    Exactly. Makes ya think doesn't it.
     
  36. Grammy Teacher

    Grammy Teacher Virtuoso

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    That's the point, very much my thoughts.
     
  37. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    I really like everyone on this forum too much to keep reading this thread. I'll see you all elsewhere on the boards, sweeties.
     
  38. scienceteach82

    scienceteach82 Cohort

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    Wow...that was the perfect response! I'll have to use that in RL too :) lol
     
  39. Peachyness

    Peachyness Virtuoso

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    I just reread my responses on that particular thread... I do hope that you guys aren't saying that I was one of the bullies. I was just sharing my worries about a live creature being used. I'm a passionate animal lover. I was just very worried about the spider being hurt. :(

    Now, I'll be on my way.
     
  40. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    Wow.
     
  41. mollydoll

    mollydoll Connoisseur

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    I'm off to go check the planetary alignment charts.

    Re: "fluffy" threads getting more views and comments than serious ones...I come here for either fun chatter or to learn about education issues. I like light-hearted threads because they are FUN and relaxing. This doesn't mean that I have no respect for "heavier" issues, merely that I choose not to engage in them in a particular format or time.

    As far as Memorial Day threads go, I discuss those issues with my dad who isn a veteran, or my Harley friends who went to Rolling Thunder (I couldn't go this year). My not discussing it here isn't disrespect or "sad," it just meant that when I came here I was more in the mood to discuss shoes.

    Likely, I'm not the only one who feels this way. :2cents:
     
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