Did you see that news on CNN about a student bullying a sub?

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by Subber, Oct 28, 2010.

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  1. Subber

    Subber Companion

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    The title is "Student allegedly bullies nun" as the sub is a nun. The video was posted on youtube. It's been taken down.

    I wonder whether the student who took the video was posting it on youtube posted it because he/she thought it's funny or posted to get attention to the incidence.

    The sub being a nun probably didn't try to remove the student early enough as this kind of kid would have shown signals as the period began.

    Kind of scary to see that video (in news).
     
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  3. Ms. I

    Ms. I Maven

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    Now that's sad. Kids have no respect anymore.
     
  4. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Many, many, many, many kids have respect.

    Apparently that one child did not.
     
  5. Ms. I

    Ms. I Maven

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    Far too many don't though.
     
  6. Subber

    Subber Companion

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    I AGREE. Very few have any form of real respect. Many have NO respect. And then there are those who shows disrespect actively.
     
  7. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

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    I have to disagree with this, although it could just be different in my geographic area.

    I've subbed at high schools, middle schools and the "alternative" school (several times). I used to say the same thing "Kids just don't have the respect for teachers my generation had". After my student teaching, though, I had to admit the majority of my students were very respectful. This is true even for the kids at the alternative school. While they are certainly more disrespectful of everyone (in general), I have to admit they still treated me (and their regular teachers) with more respect than I would have expected.

    I will agree that the minority of students who are disrespectful are much more disrespectful than the kids from my generation. Even the worst kids in my class still had a grudging respect for teachers and (usually) had a certain line they wouldn't cross behavior-wise. I do not see that with the unruly kids today. I've had certain students say things to me and towards me that kids in my day would never have dreamed of saying.

    I believe most of it has to do with upbringing. I had a problem child during my ST who was very disrespectful. His actions eventually led to a parent/student/teacher/principal conference. During the conference, his parents admitted it was mostly their fault because they spoiled the kid rotten. The dad also said the worst thing that ever happened in education was taking spanking out of school. Maybe or maybe not, but if the parents would discipline at home, then there we wouldn't be having the behavior problems at school.

    So, overall, I have to say my experience has been that kids are still respectful, but the ones that are not respectful are much more so than those from previous generations.
     
  8. Momma C

    Momma C Comrade

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    I agree with Cerek wholeheartedly !!
     
  9. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    Again, school demographics come into play, but, in my experience most students have respect for those teachers who show respect to them. It saddens me when adults have low expectations of the people they have chosen to work with and then are surprised or dismayed when the students meet those expectations. I spend a lot of time listening to my students and being sure that I really understand what they are saying behind their words. An example from today: walking into my room at about 12:30, you would have heard, in a slightly raised voice, "You're a teacher, you don't count." About 10 minutes later you would have heard the same student say, in a harsh voice, "Shhh, don't talk to me right now". In neither case did the student mean an ounce of disrespect; in fact, he was mortified to hear that he may have sounded that way to someone who didn't know him like I do.

    I'm not saying that there aren't disrespectful students out there--we all know there are--just that they aren't as plentiful as some think they are.
     
  10. azure

    azure Companion

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    It is definitely worse in inner-city schools. And if and when the parents come in, you see where they get it.
     
  11. Subber

    Subber Companion

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    Obviously, my definition of respect differs greatly from most adults in US. After all, I am an Asian. No insult intended:)
     
  12. Momma C

    Momma C Comrade

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    Just curious -- what is your definition of respect? :dunno:
     
  13. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    I'm curious as well.
     
  14. pjlmom

    pjlmom Rookie

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    respect

    I have students ask.........

    1. Are you a lesbian? answer, My name is on the board MRS.......

    2. Do you wear a bikini? answer, no , do I look like I would wear a bikini?

    3. Do you have sex at your age? answer, go ask your mother that question..


    This week a student threw crayons at me while we were viewing a video. No one would fess up, so I told them I was going to write up the whole class. The young man finally confesses to throwing them.
    then spent the rest of the class trying to talk me out of sending him to the dean.
     
  15. Subber

    Subber Companion

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    Even if I tell you at length, you won't understand unless you have lived Asia. Seriously.
     
  16. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    My son is Asian.

    I'm Irish American.

    My husband is Italian American.

    I don't understand your point. My son lived in Korea for 7 months; should I ask him to explain it to me?
     
  17. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    If you feel that I won't be able to understand the way that you define respect, how are your students expected to?
     
  18. MissAnt

    MissAnt Comrade

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    I understand what you're saying Subber. Respect and how it is shown varies between cultures. What one culture views as a sign of respect could be viewed as disrespectful in another culture. The example that comes to mind (and this could be incorrect) is looking a person in the eye when speaking. Some cultures view it as disrespectful to look a person in the eyes. Again, I could be very wrong but I think it's a good example.

    I'd imagine being Asian and growing up in an Asian culture are much different.
     
  19. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Lesbians can be Mrses.

    Why on earth are you even responding to questions like are you a lesbian, do you wear a bikini, and do you have sex? If the student is just being a douchebag and asking the questions to get a reaction from you, then you would probably be better off either ignoring or sending the kid straight out of the room for disrespectful, inappropriate behavior bordering on sexual harassment.

    When you engage with students and have power struggles, they perceive that they have more power than you.
     
  20. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

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    Notice CNN doesn't post videos of the thousands upon thousands of kids who are respectful, upstanding, wonderful young adults.

    It's the ONE moron who gets the attention.
     
  21. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    ...and upon which generalizations are made.
     
  22. Ms. I

    Ms. I Maven

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    I understand what Subber means when she brings up ethnicity. It's kind of known in society that Asian families stress school & education tremendously & doing well...not to say that certain non-Asians don't. I know there are bad kids of every race, but when you see the amount of Asians that misbehave compared to everyone else, what percentage of Asian kids are usually the ones acting out, being the class clown, being a nusiance, talking back to the teacher, etc.? Sure there's always some, but not that many overall. Many times, I've worked in classes where many (didn't say all) Asian kids are literally the perfect kids all day long. They don't give you a bit of trouble, they do as they're told, they're polite, they're not obnoxious, etc. Again, not to say that certain other non-Asians aren't. I'm not trying to sound stereotypical. I'm just supporting why Subber brings up about being Asian.

    With many Asians, the questions that arise aren't is the child going to attend college, but rather, what are you studying in college. It's not did you do well on the test, but did you get an A? I strongly believe as well as know that more pressures to do well are put on Asian kids. Showing respect is all a part of expectations to do well.
     
  23. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Wow... just wow.
     
  24. agresh1

    agresh1 Rookie

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    Not to be rude but I dont think that your child merely being asian and being in the culture for 7 months would give him any idea of what growing up in the culture is like, especially since neither you or your husband are asain.
     
  25. Ms. I

    Ms. I Maven

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    agresh1, she was being shall we say sarcastic to Subber when she asked that question.
     
  26. fratermus

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    I agree that respect is more productive than disrespect. I agree that respect and modeling the expected behavior is likely to decrease the incidents of disruptive behavior.

    Still, it only takes one person wandering/yelling in a restaurant, stage show, or classroom to disrupt the experience for every other person. It only takes one redlight-runner to disrupt traffic flow or kill someone.

    Civilization in general (and one:many groups like a classroom in particular) requires prodigious levels of cooperative behavior to function.


    Agreed. And I wouldn't do the work if I didn't have higher expectations than that. Why would someone choose a job if they thought they could make no difference?

    OTOH, it saddens me when the first interaction I have with a student is:
    * a close-proximity shoulder fake and pulled punch like he is going to hit me squarely in the face (to see if I will flinch); or
    * "are you a (*&(*&# sub? I ___ing hate ____ing subs"; or
    * refusal to sit down in a desk when class has started; or
    * the student hitting, shoving, tripping, or screaming in the face of another student; or
    * the student referring to other students as "n___er";
    * the student ambling in late, interrupting discussion about the assignment, yelling, singing and dancing. This happens most days, actually.

    Clarification: the minority of disruptive kids in each class do not bother me intrinsically; Marcus Aurelius taught us we will meet with fools on a daily basis. What bothers me is the destruction of the academic environment for the majority of students who are eager to learn, or at least amenable to instruction.
     
  27. azure

    azure Companion

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    What does this mean? This is a non-response. Are you astounded to read the previous post? Is this new information to you?
     
  28. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    I can't speak for Alice, but for me it definitely is new information that we can anticipate the behaviour of a student, or group of students, based on their ethnicity, age or gender.
     
  29. porque_pig

    porque_pig Comrade

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    I agree with some of the previous posters. How do you define respect?

    I think many of my students exhibit a certain lack of respect for others. It's not that most of them call me names or throw tantrums (although it happens). Their lack of respect comes in the form of continued cell phone use in class, emails to me in which they use the words "lols" and "hey ms," and awful accusations whenever they receive grades they deem to be too low. It IS a lack of respect even if they aren't violent or outright disruptive. I would have never treated my teachers that way.
     
  30. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    I can't speak for Alice, but I don't think she was being sarcastic. I think she was merely pointing out that even if a person is Asian, that they may not know Asian culture.
     
  31. Subber

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    Some kids always ask me whether I am married or have a bf, etc. These days, I don't even write ms or Mrs. . anymore on the white board. I just write my last name.

    One girl - this was HS - left for RR immediately after writing n sign-in sheet. 10 mins later, she was not back. So, I announced that a few more mins and I'd be calling security. Someone must have texted her. She was back soon. Then, all she did was going around in the back of the class talking and talking which was getting louder and louder, totally ignoring my several warning. (Later, much later, a girl informed me that she was calling me a b**** but it wasn't loud enough for me to hear.) Walking turned into running around and so I called the security. They're short of staff to send someone and so told me to tell her to go to the office. She was taking her time, calming down a bit, probably trying to see whether I'd change my mind. I have enough experience that not only that she would act up again, it'd send the wrong signal that a few others would follow suit. So, I reminded her that she needs to leave, making her realize that she needed to go asap.

    By the time she was sent out, it was only 15 mins left for the period. The whole time she did no work. She was in a later period after lunch, acting sweet trying to turn in the work that she was supposed to turn in during the morning period and I just gently said "no". I figured that she could turn in to her teacher directly if he takes it.

    back home, the teacher goes form class to class. So during the break, we played around (mainly talking) in class whenever the teacher was not around but as soon as there is a teacher (sub or not), everyone behaves. Why is that sense of respect lacking in these kids? The only rationale I find is that the home environment and in fact society do not instill the sens of respect they need to show to adults (in charge at school or home).
     
  32. Subber

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    I'm Irish American. [/quote]

    If you are Irish American, how can your son be Asian especially if he didn't grow up in Asia?

    Living in Korea for 7 months doesn't make him an Asian.
     
  33. Subber

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    Do you really expect me to waste my precious on this non-sensical question?
     
  34. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    I'm going to put this as gently as I can:

    I can clearly see why your students don't respect you.

    If you can't be bothered to even teach them what respect means to you and what behaviors you expect, then you're not a very good teacher and you should consider a different profession.

    Yeah, I said it.
     
  35. Subber

    Subber Companion

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    Well, these days anyone living in the west would not avoid eye contact. Most cultures in the world do not.

    By no means, I was using the ruler used in Asian culture one these kids. I brought up about being Asian because some adults try to talk PC and insist that the majority of kids these days have respect for the teachers while in reality, they do not. They just do not show disrespect openly.
     
  36. Subber

    Subber Companion

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    I have never been asked all that. But From the questions they have asked, sometimes, they just asked without sounding aggressive and so it's better to respond to them than make them feel ignored by not answering which I once found made a kid upset. Probably got embarrassed for being ignored. One thing I found out is that "ignoring them" doesn't work unless it's to a question similar to something that's been answered (refused to answer) already.


    My standard line as soon as I sensed that a kid would try asking question unrelated to the lecture interrupting me, I would ask "is your answer related to the topics", that's the end of it. But that's usually in Elementary when kids just wanted to talk. In HS, there usually is no teaching as much as supervising the to do the assigned work and help them. So, I would just answer inappropriate question with "Your question is not valid in this classroom That give then a chance to withdraw without suffering (shame in front of their peers) too much.
     
  37. Subber

    Subber Companion

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    No normal human being would be able to do subbing if he/she doesn't believe in making a difference in even one child's life. Some kids literally were happy to have me as a sub. One even blurted out "yes" (to himself) as he entered the class. I just smiled and said, "I am glad someone is happy to see me". It was an American born Indian/Pakistani boy.



    I am glad that you typed all that because it's what typically happens though subbing at a particular HS and being strict while being lenient to them have allowed me to get the class under control though it ALWAYS involved 1-3 kids getting removed in order to achieve that. If they're not removed, there'd be a bunch to imitate them and a few to watch the show, kind of participating by fitting in with those disruptive kids. Only a handful would have resisted that behavior. This is an indication (to me at least) that the majority of them do not have genuine respect for teacher.

     
  38. Subber

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    Thank you very much:)
     
  39. Subber

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    Did you see the class I run to make this claim, assuming that to you, their not acting up is equivalent to respect. It's like the rationale of "The enemy of my enemy is my friend".


    So, you are saying that as a sub, we are supposed to fix all the dysfunctional upbringing they have at home, at their schools and in the society. Glad you cleared that up for me.
     
  40. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    I'm pretty sure I didn't say anything of the sort.

    I said that if you can't teach kids what respect means, then you're a bad teacher.

    It's your job to teach them the things they need to know in order to survive and thrive in society. This isn't limited to course content; it also includes crucial life skills. It may be true that they haven't gotten the lesson about respect at home. In that case, it's even more vitally important that you teach them.

    What you're doing is throwing up your hands and effectively saying, "Aw, F this. These kids don't know anything. They're not even Asian! How can they possibly know how to show respect since they're not Asian?!" Even if you're not actually saying the words, I'm sure that your body language says it nonetheless. Kids sense that. They're not as stupid as you seem to think they are. What kid would want to be kind to anyone who thought so little of him?
     
  41. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    My son was born in Korea. THAT'S what makes him Asian. He's adopted.

    I have no reason to lie. And I'm not stupid enough to confuse tourism with ethnic background.

    You could ask him. He's 12; he understands how it's possible that he's Asian and we're not. But I choose not to expose him to a lot of what I read here.

    If you still don't believe me, check my old posts. You'll probably find something under the phrase "gotcha."

    eta: here, I made it easy for you: http://forums.atozteacherstuff.com/showthread.php?t=122397&highlight=gotcha

    http://forums.atozteacherstuff.com/showthread.php?t=114495&highlight=Korea

    There are lots more if you need more proof.

    Or better yet, choose not to believe me..
     
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