Detroit - Parents wants teachers jailed

Discussion in 'General Education' started by raynor, Dec 14, 2009.

  1. raynor

    raynor Rookie

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  3. DizneeTeachR

    DizneeTeachR Virtuoso

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    Interesting... I wonder if the parents can be jailed along with the teachers for those who aren't "participating" in their child's education?!?

    Doesn't help when cuts keep happening throughout the state. Let's see it's been cut $165 with addition $127 then that was given back... who knows it's hard for schools all over, but it's really hard when this type of stuff keeps happening as well. The districts are stuck in a sort of "keep your fingers crossed for funding."
     
  4. I Am The Future

    I Am The Future Rookie

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    I honestly don't know what to think about that. On one hand, I'm appalled that a woman would think that JAIL TIME is the necessary course of action for low test scores. But on the other hand, I sense that she feels like there is no other option, or all other options have been exhausted, and is finally just trying to say things to get people to listen to her and realize that there's a problem.

    Very interesting.
     
  5. mrachelle87

    mrachelle87 Fanatic

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    Wow!!! I feel for Detroit teachers.
     
  6. knitter63

    knitter63 Groupie

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    Wow-what pressure. I am assuming that each and every parent who is upset is at home every night, working and reading with their child, and sharing their value of education with their child. I am assuming that each parent is participating in their PTA, setting high expectations for their child, and not accepting anything less. I am assuming that each parent is listening to both sides of the story, and not blindly believing their child when he/she says they "have no homework". If that is the case, then I can understand the fury. If not, then the parents need to quit pointing fingers. Our society has real problems, and they must be addressed. Pointing fingers will never solve anything.
     
  7. HMM

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    I'm betting that is the main problem here...lack of quality parenting.
     
  8. DizneeTeachR

    DizneeTeachR Virtuoso

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    My guess as well... that's why I said that... I am sure there are a few who help, but the other probably outweighs it.... like a lot of other places.
     
  9. kinderkids

    kinderkids Virtuoso

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    I wonder what the detention rate, absenteeism,broken homes, laid off parents, homeless families,drug use, gang issues, etc. play into these statistics. Detroit has taken a huge hit in this recession and it has effected people in a lot more ways in addition to losing a job. The city is dying. The Silverdome was just bought a few weeks ago for about 585,000 dollars when it cost over 50 million to build!! :eek: It's easy to point fingers, but it takes a lot more work to get to the heart of the problem, and there definitely is a problem. This is only one of a multitude of woes Detroit is dealing with right now.
     
  10. CanukTeacher

    CanukTeacher Comrade

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    This organization looks like it does do some interesting things but I'm guessing this CEO makes more than teachers. Wonder if she's planning on giving up part of her salary until retirement without interest?
     
  11. mmswm

    mmswm Moderator

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    I think the teachers SHOULD walk out. Let the parents deal with their little darlings. This has gotten out of control. The districts hog ties its teachers, the parents don't support the schools, and worse than that, actively fight against the teachers, then they wonder why the little darlings do poorly.

    I have an idea. Give the teachers the power to actually TEACH. Go back to a developmentally appropriate curriculum. Bring back real science classes, not this bologna about learning science through reading. Kids brains don't work that way. They must be doers first.

    All of these initiatives in the past have finally cumulated in a collossal failure. Instead of attacking the teachers who are forced to do what they KNOW won't work, why don't we get to the real problem? Clueless administrators looking for the magic bullet that doesn't exist.

    Okay, off my :soapbox: now.
     
  12. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    mm~I agree 1000% Education swings on a pendulum...I'm just waiting for it to swing back the other direction! I'm shocked that parents would even think of this.
     
  13. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    "No other city in the history of this test has done this bad," said Allen, a founding member of the 7-year-old network. "They could have took this test in French and done just as bad."

    This quote says it all. She wouldn't recognize English, much less French.

    I agree... let them homeschool, with examples like this one to teach the kids, as long as they sign an affidavit saying THEY'LL support those kids and not put them on welfare when they end up as poorly educated as their parents.

    It's heartbreaking. It sounds as though there really is a huge problem. But instead of attacking it at its roots-- I'm guessing that drugs, gangs, crime, unemployment, and some clueless parenting all come into play-- they're trying to put a huge bandaid on a hemmorage.
     
  14. mmswm

    mmswm Moderator

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    No...they're trying to put one of those tiny "dot" bandaids (you know the ones they put on after injections) on a patient with 47 stab wounds and a couple gunshot wounds.
     
  15. Bumble

    Bumble Groupie

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    I would walk out too. I wonder how strong the Detroit Teachers' Union is. We have every intervention under the sun and it won't help us. Every week there is something new. I have parents who complain when I ask them to read to their children for 10 minutes. They tell me they "don't have the time". When will they start holding parents accountable?
     
  16. Muttling

    Muttling Devotee

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    WOW



    I suspect that this is not a new problem. Perhaps, they have successfully chased off many of their good teachers with similar lack of support in the past. Now their lighting an even bigger flame and good teachers who were hanging around are being painted as the problem.

    Who the heck would want to go and teach in that kind of situation????

    Who would want to stay in that kind of situation????

    This is going to really add to their hiring and retention problems. Look for them to have similar problems in the coming years. It won't change until they get a lets work together attitude and stop pointing fingers.
     
  17. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Is there any chance that the state would take over Detroit schools in an effort to improve them??
     
  18. Genmai

    Genmai Companion

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    Well..... Detroit is an *inner city* district. This is a fact that we need to remember. It shares the problems that other urban districts share, and it can only improve by looking at what has been consistently successful in other inner city districts. This talk of jailing doesn't help anyone, and it will only drive more good teachers out of their system.

    State usurping control of schools is not a guarantee of success. In New Jersey, we have a bunch of state controlled districts that were failing before takeover and are still failing as miserably under state control. Administrators mimic the same half-baked measures of their predecessors and get the same poor results.

    Shame on the parents for suggesting jailing of teachers. A better idea is jailing parents of the most disruptive kids for a weekend or two.

    :p
     
  19. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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  20. FourSquare

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    I'm not blaming anyone in particular, but the Detroit Public Schools are a freaking MESS. There are a lot of urban districts in trouble, and I want to teach kids in these districts, but I wouldn't teach in Detroit if it were the last hiring district on earth. Detroit is fascinatingly horrid.

    EVERYONE has failed the students of Detroit.
     
  21. Muttling

    Muttling Devotee

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    There is always a chance, but there's a REALLY goog reason why States don't want to do this.

    When it's the local Board of Ed running things, it's their responsibility for fixing them. When the State takes over, the State is responsible for fixing things and the big wigs at the State take the blame if it's not fixed.

    It's a LOT easier to point fingers instead of take responsibility and this is what the situation we are looking at is all about. Parents, board of ed, state, and Fed are blaming the teachers. We are where the rubber meets the road, we have the courage to step up and say "I'll make it happen." They don't. The state taking over means they have to have courage to say "I'll make it happen when they couldn't." What if they don't make it happen?

    They are good politicians because they avoid that kind of blame. And the kids get the shaft.
     
  22. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    The reason I ask is because the state took over a Long Island district a few years ago, and there's talk of them taking over more.

    Nothing as big as Detroit, of course. And they haven't exactly made Roosevelt into a success story-- they're still using the bandaid approach and not tackling the problems that are the core of the problem.
     
  23. Budaka

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    My father just told me the other day that when he was in high school they could fail only one semester in their entire high school career and still graduate. How about holding children responsible for their actions? My favorite poster in my classroom says, "take responsibility for your own education."
     
  24. teachin4ever

    teachin4ever Cohort

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    This article makes me so mad!

    I live about 20 miles outside of Detroit and had to do a bit of pre-student teaching in a couple of their schools. I also had a friend who worked at a Detroit high school for about 3 months before he had enough and quit.

    The problem isn't the teachers or the administrators. The fact of the matter is most of these kids' parents are either dead, in jail, prostitutes or druggies. They don't give a rats behind how to find the greatest common factor or how to add fractions. What the he11 does that have to do with their real world, which consists of gangs, guns and drugs? You could bring in the best teachers in the world and I'm pretty sure their scores would remain the same. Until someone figures out a way to whip that city into shape, I really don't think there's a whole lot of hope for these kids. Sad, but that's the reality I see.
     
  25. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    But if they failes more than one semester, then what??

    Have even MORE kids not graduating?

    I think that we have to somehow, tackle the problems at the core-- poverty, crime, the appeal of gangs, the lack of ambition that seem to be a blight on too many schools.

    Yes, kids absolutely need to take responsibility for their own education. But for that to happen, they need so see some value in it-- some reason that succeeding in school is a more appealing option than the alternatives.
     
  26. mmswm

    mmswm Moderator

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    Any real reforms are going to have to come from the parents, or other grassroots organizations. The social problems in the inner city are overwhelming but there ARE things we can do. The first thing that springs to mind is teacher training programs. These programs teach aspiring teachers how to teach middle class kids. They fall pathetically short in preparing teachers to deal with the very real problems urban schools. The approaches that would work in middle class schools won't work in urban schools. Most parents want to be involved, but they're too busy working 3 jobs to keep their kids fed and housed to come in for parent conferences. They want to help with homework, but they don't have the education themselves. Teachers need to be prepared to handle these types of problems. As it is now, you either figure it out and your students do half way decently, or you don't and your students, in spite of your best efforts, continue to fall farther behind.

    The parents in these communities need to insist that their kids' teachers get the support and education they need to understand their communities. I'm not holding my breath.
     
  27. mmswm

    mmswm Moderator

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    We can teach these kids IN SPITE of these problems. It's not a band aid fix, and it won't be fast, but we can do it. There are a LOT of talented teachers making a real difference in the lives of inner city kids. They give these kids a chance at a life they didn't think they could have. They do this because they "get" these kids. They work around the problems and limitations presented by their students' home lives. These are teachers that other urban teachers need to observe and learn from. These are the teachers to whom teacher education programs need to look to when preparing future teachers to work in this environment. We can do it, but it's not going to happen until everybody realizes we don't live in a cookie cutter world. Suburban schools are a whole different world than urban schools.
     
  28. KinderCowgirl

    KinderCowgirl Phenom

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    I remember watching a documentary (I wish I could remember what it was called) and they were filming in an urban district, I think it was Baltimore. But the teachers and administrators said the hardest part was getting kids to actually show up to school. Their truancy officers worked overtime and still they had kids missing weeks at a time. You can't catch up from those kinds of absences. And the kids really didn't care-when they took their standardized tests they would draw pictures in the bubbles. The worse the kids did, the less money the schools received.

    I really feel for those teachers. Here they are, agreeing to basically loan their district part of their salaries in order to keep their jobs because the district went over budget-and this is the thanks they get! :eek: My hat is off to anyone who would show up every day giving what they can for kids in an inner-city school like that-I don't think I could do it-particularly middle and high school-the daily dangers they have to deal with.
     
  29. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    I get the sense that you're one of those teachers the others should be observing mm.

    Someone REALLY needs to hire you ASAP!
     
  30. mmswm

    mmswm Moderator

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    :blush: The nearest urban district is in a hiring freeze. :(
     
  31. Muttling

    Muttling Devotee

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    Yep, this is really the issue that is at the heart of the problem.


    You've got to go after the REAL problem. I'm sure they have some teachers that need to go, but kids don't live their entire lives at school and there's only so much a teacher can do.

    The people at the State are required to hold teachers accountable, but when it's a statement of "O'k...they're not getting it done so we want you to go in and fix it".....

    The results are what you describe. No big success stories and the State people are now held accountable. This is why States want to avoid take overs. The only thing that really changes is their level of responsibility.
     
  32. Mrs. K.

    Mrs. K. Enthusiast

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    That's an HBO documentary called Hard Times at Douglass High. You can watch it online - it's a real eye-opener.
     
  33. ecl

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    I don't blame these parents at all. It's understandable why they are upset. Yes, they are being a bit dramatic, but it's getting them media attention and that is what they are seeking.

    The students in this city have the lowest math scores in the nation. I work in an inner city, and our students are doing a lot better than Detroit's students. Our student population suffers from the same family problems, same economic issues, as the student population in Detroit. Yet they are scoring a lot higher than Detroit's students. Why?

    We need to analyze why some inner city districts are more successful than others. Certainly it is not because the teachers are so much better, or that the student population is so different. These parents are crying out for help. Let's hope that as a result, someone takes a close look at Detroit's school system and figures out why they are at rock bottom.
     
  34. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    You bring up a good point.

    We're very quick to judge, myself most definitely included.

    But these parents are trying to get their kids an education. We may have an issue with their solution to the problem, but certainly the national spotlight is now on Detroit, and that may in turn bring about some positive change.
     
  35. Bumble

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    The problem exceeds the level of a teacher. We need communities, families, businesses, states, and governments invested in our schools. Most importantly we need people who believe in our students. If they skip school we need to go find them. If they are seriously acting out in school we need to figure out what is going on and help the child.

    The MAJOR problem is that our students can't read. We need to set aside the fancy lessons and go back to the traditional direct instruction. All urban districts need to invest in two research-based interventions. Intervention programs that correct social skills and reading. It is ridiculous that kids beat each other up if someone looks at them. If we focus on social skills, then the students will want to learn.

    I think the city and state should be held accountable for not using research-based programs.
     
  36. giraffe326

    giraffe326 Virtuoso

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    Detroit has issues outside of the education system. The city is basically corrupt (Kwame Kilpatrick, anyone?) and is one of the most economically devastated cities in the US (definitely the worst for a city of its size). Other cities are in trouble, but the effects of the outsourcing of the auto industry is astounding. Detroit consistently 'makes' the top-10 list for crimes per capita and Detroit's murder rate is typically ranked #1 . The unemployment rate is around 30%. Detroit is not like typical inner-city schools. I know all major cities have these problems, but Detroit seems to be ranked #1 in just about all of them.

    Add to Detroit's problem as a city the fact that the school system is very messed up and has been for years. The state had to intervene about 10 years ago and DPS just regained control of its school board a few years ago. I don't think it improved a single thing.

    Changes have to be made and putting teachers in jail is certainly the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. The problems go much, much deeper than the faculty.

    I truly do not think an intervention from the state will do much good under the state's current leadership. How that woman (Jennifer Granholm) was reelected, I will never know.
     
  37. DizneeTeachR

    DizneeTeachR Virtuoso

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    I was talking to hubby last nite about this he said if you look at all the resources per student payment...sadly Detroit is one of the largest paid per kid.

    Giraffe I think Miss Jen was reelected with a lot of smoke that was blown about how she was going to turn the state around & the fact that many "unions" like the Democrats. But as we have seen she did blow a lot of smoke & continues to do so...Hopefully it can be turned around.
     
  38. Jem

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    There was a tv news story a few years ago showing administrators walking out of Detroit schools stealing tvs, computers and projectors.

    Corruption is rampant at every level in that district. You could have the best teachers in the world, but without strong leadership in central office and by the principals, you will never keep them.
     
  39. CindyBlue

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    Wow - reading the comments (at the bottom of the article) was interesting...
     
  40. CindyBlue

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  41. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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