Debate time! Should a specific race or gender be given special consideration?

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by Caesar753, Jul 9, 2014.

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  1. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    When admins are considering potential candidates for hire, should they give special consideration to candidates of a particular race or gender? Why or why not?

    (Let's set aside legal issues for this one.)
     
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  3. Mrs. Rader

    Mrs. Rader Rookie

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    I am very interested to see how this thread progresses. :)

    Personally, I do not believe they should be given any special consideration. But that's just me. I can see both sides of the fence here.
     
  4. EdEd

    EdEd Aficionado

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    Don't think so.
     
  5. MissCeliaB

    MissCeliaB Aficionado

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    All other qualifications being equal, I think there should be a commitment to increasing diversity. That does not necessarily mean only race, but certainly race and gender are two visible factors. But, that should be in instances where all other factors are the same for job candidates. Otherwise the person best qualified for the job should get it.
     
  6. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

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    Should we choose a lesser candidate because of their race or gender? No way. Our students deserve only the best.
     
  7. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    I don't see a problem with using diversity as a tie-breaker between two equally qualified candidates.
     
  8. Bunnie

    Bunnie Devotee

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    :agreed:

    If a school knows a candidate of a particular race would fit better in their school because the need for diversity I'm all for it.
     
  9. Jerseygirlteach

    Jerseygirlteach Groupie

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    In that case...

    Most of the teachers in my school are non-white - probably about 75%. Would it be okay for my admin to lean towards a white candidate for the next opening, for the sake of diversity?

    ----------

    Are there any studies that show that students learn better from teachers that are their own race or gender?
     
  10. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    Assuming the two candidates were equally qualified...
     
  11. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Nope.

    We can never get to a society where race/gender doesn't matter if race or gender matters.

    You will never have candidates that are completely equal if interviews are given. If that is the case, better questions should be asked to differentiate between them.
     
  12. otterpop

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    No, I don't think so. However, I have seen several schools hire because of these traits - not entirely, but given a good amount of weight, unofficially.
     
  13. Mrs. Rader

    Mrs. Rader Rookie

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    :agreed:

    I doubt any two candidates could ever have exactly the same qualifications. Even if that were the case, the interview could never go exactly the same.
     
  14. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Groupie

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    Comment made by a college professor one day concerned affirmative action

    The same question came up during a graduate math class. Unbelievable, right?? Well, the professor said race should not be a factor when making hiring decisions BUT there are times when a teacher might be tempted to use racially charged words to be effective. He said, "One time, I wanted to say, 'Sit your black a$$ down!', but I couldn't. A black male teacher teaching in a predominantly black school might be able to get away with this."
     
  15. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Could it benefit students to have a teacher of a particular race or gender?
     
  16. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Could...
    That is one of those words that unless something is completely false it is accurate.

    Isn't the question really does having a teacher of the same race or gender help students more often than not?
     
  17. 2ndTimeAround

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    If you are going to choose a teacher based on his/her gender because it might suit the student population better, you better make sure that every single student at that school meets the majority demographic.

    It would be just as wrong to hire a black woman because most of her students would be black as it would to hire a white woman because most of her students are white.

    I truly believe that we should strive to be as colorblind as possible when filling positions. You can't have it both ways. You can't hire someone BECAUSE he is a black man anymore than you can reject him because he is a black man.
     
  18. KinderCowgirl

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    There have been times when we had equal opinions of candidates. There were 3 recently for example that were exemplary and it was very hard to decide between them.

    I interviewed for a job at a charter school once where I was told point blank that their student population was 98% African American. That parents probably wouldn't except me as a white teacher and my opinions of their children, especially when it came to behavior. Then she asked if I knew their staff was right now 100% African American. Knowing that, did I still want the job? Of course, I did because none of that makes a difference to me, I actually looked at the demographic breakdown in preparation for the interview. But if I was not hired for that position because I wouldn't be accepted there, then I actually think she did me a favor.

    At the school where I am now the majority of students are Hispanic. At one point no one on our admin team was Hispanic-I don't think that made for good communication with our parents.
     
  19. Mrs. Rader

    Mrs. Rader Rookie

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    So, from what I have read it seems that so far most of us believe that gender and race should ONLY be considered when candidates have equivalent experience, equivalent recommendations, and equivalent certifications. This would make anyone look to other characteristics and attributes when making a decision.

    What this means is that gender and race could be useful when judging how effective a teacher could be in a particular classroom, in a particular school. Maybe, some feel that there would be a large culture gap in some instances. I can see this being the case.
     
  20. Jerseygirlteach

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    The student population in my school is predominately Hispanic/black with a significant Indian population. Less than 10% of the students are white. I am white. I have never felt a disconnect with my students. I have absolutely never felt unaccepted or disrespected by my students due to my race or any other reason. I don't know what it's like to be another race/gender/culture/nationality, but that doesn't mean I can't accept people who are and they cannot accept me.

    If the culture of the school is that one ethnic group cannot be accepted, then the culture of the school needs to change rather than having a hiring practice that feeds into this disconnect.
     
  21. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    Let me put it like this... I have a bachelor's degree, a master's degree, a GPA in the high 3.9's for each, five years of teaching experience, three summers, and three different certification areas. All things considered, I consider myself to be a very qualified teacher, and based on parent feedback, evaluations (and... sigh... test scores), I am a highly effective teacher.

    Drop me in an urban setting, and my effectiveness would drop like a rock.
     
  22. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    Touchy subject, but the fact is that the faculty should, to a certain extent, reflect the population of the community being served. This might be done during the recruitment process as well as the hiring process. As unpleasant as it sounds to hire a candidate with an emphasis on race or gender, it is equally unpleasant to have a homogenous faculty serve a diverse community.
     
  23. Jerseygirlteach

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    How can you know that?

    Would an "urban" teacher be ineffective in your school?
     
  24. Mrs. Rader

    Mrs. Rader Rookie

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    Those are all excellent excellent qualifications. :) Sounds like you do amazing work with your students.

    I guess my question is this... Do you think your effectiveness as a teacher should be determined based on the demographics of your students?

    You have stated that you do not think you would be as effective as an urban teacher. Why is that?
     
  25. gr3teacher

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    Because it's such a different environment, and one that I really can't relate to.

    Would a teacher who had only ever attended and taught in urban schools be ineffective in my school? Initially? Yeah, probably, at least compared to their past performance.
     
  26. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

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    :agreed:
     
  27. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Have you taught in an urban school before?
     
  28. Jerseygirlteach

    Jerseygirlteach Groupie

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    My district is considered suburban. However, the white children in town overwhelmingly are sent to private schools. The vast majority of the students are Hispanic or black. It is not a violent neighborhood, but many/most of my students live in severe poverty.
     
  29. 3Sons

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    Put legal issues aside!?!?!? :eek::eek::eek::eek:hmy:;)

    More seriously, though, the idea behind affirmative action isn't just "legal" -- it's legal based on a moral principle of rectifying the effects of past institutionalized racism.

    Essentially, if you don't have "special consideration" for some races, then effectively what you have is special consideration for caucasians.
     
  30. Maryhf

    Maryhf Connoisseur

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    Idealistically , I would like to see a school staff as diverse as the student population . In fact, I'd rather the staff be more diverse. We have an opening on my team, and I would love it if they found a competent male candidate since we are all women. I think it would provide a balance. I would also like to see a minority teacher hired since we have 100% white teachers and about 95% white student body. Having said that, it is most important to me that the they hire an excellent teacher, male, female, any race.
     
  31. ready2learn

    ready2learn Comrade

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    While race or gender shouldn't be the only thing to consider, I do think it should be something to consider. I have taught at schools where the majority of my students were a different race than me. Was I effective in those settings? Yes. Was I as effective as easily as someone who shared their race? Overall, no. I will also say I work with coteachers each year. This year my coteacher was a different race than many of the teachers in my school. He was a blessing to my students, especially those who were the same race as him. He was a good role model for those students to look up to.
     
  32. Go Blue!

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    Yes. Like I said in the other thread, I think my school/district could use more Black males in the classroom (not just coaches/hall monitors). I've heard Admin and teachers (both white and minority teachers) says this. While like 90% of my district's kids are Black, the majority of our teachers are white females.

    As a Black female, I feel very strongly about this for many reasons.
     
  33. 2ndTimeAround

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    I totally agree.

    I'll repeat what I said on another thread - we should not cater to bad behavior. Why encourage the poor idea that children can only learn from teachers that look like them? Why should we encourage disrespect for people from other cultures? We should instead provide plenty of opportunities for students to engage with people from other backgrounds.

    That being said, I have had students and parents that were disrespectful to me solely because of my race. I've had mothers tell me in conferences that they tell their kids they don't have to "listen to no white lady."
     
  34. 2ndTimeAround

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    Not true. Not true at all.
     
  35. 2ndTimeAround

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    So...let's say that you get a minority teacher on staff next year. Would the 5% of your students that are not white all end up in his/her room? If not, how would having him/her on staff impact those students? Just as a "token" minority that the kids can pass in the hallway?
     
  36. teachinnola

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  37. HistoryVA

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    I teach in an urban school, with approx 80% African-American students. I am a white female and I do believe I am an effective teacher. However, I would love to see more black teachers, especially male and especially from within that community. I don't feel like many of my students have strong male role models and I do feel it's important for our students to see that they can find success somewhere other than the streets. I recently read a statistic that less than half of the African-American males in school graduate high school. That's shocking and I do believe that being around more successful people from their own background (not just racially, but culturally) would make a difference.
     
  38. Jerseygirlteach

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    I need to step away from this thread. I cannot deal with the insinuation that I am a less effective teacher to my students because I'm white. It's simply, flat out false - not to mention that if anyone said the reverse - "Minority teachers can't relate to white kids and are, therefore, less effective" most people here would be appalled - rightly so.

    By the way, my African-American principal and the parents of my students would tell you that if you think that you're dead wrong. I'm sure of that.

    I have nothing else to say on this subject.
     
  39. Pi-R-Squared

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    Sounds like either Newark, Jersey City, or Camden... or maybe the nearby areas like Kearny or Bayonne?
     
  40. Go Blue!

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    Yes. Sometimes, exposing kids to positive role models of their own race is important. Telling kids to look up to President Obama is not as effective as having a child be able to interact with someone on a daily basis that they can "identify" with - even when it comes to little things that seem trivial.

    This is not the best example, but I once taught MS and one our ELA teachers was a Black male. One day, I was talking to him in the hallway during passing time and he said something about his wife. A boy at a nearby locker looked at him and said "you're married?" as if it was the craziest thing in the world. The ELA teacher said "yes" and the boy went on to tell us, dead serious, that he didn't know any Black men that were married. He thought marriage was only for rich people and that's why only white people got married. So I was like, "President Obama is married. Beyoncé and Jay Z are married." He said, "yeah, they're rich like white people."

    This is not the best example of the point I'm trying to make but I just think it's important to expose kids to people of their own race who are not "stereotypes."
     
  41. Mrs. Rader

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    I really love this idea. :love: It would be awesome to see a diverse staff. For some of our students, we may be one of the few adults they interact with. The more our students are surrounded by diversity, the less likely they will be to shun it. It would foster a sense of global community as well as educate them about the many qualities that make each of us special and unique! I have very strong feelings about diversity and acceptance of other cultures.

    I do not see this ever happening if special considerations are made (for whatever reason) based on race or gender. If a candidate who is a race/gender that is only 1% of the school's population (or staff) WANTS to teach at the school... in my opinion he/she should seriously be considered for the position. I also still believe that the person with the best qualifications and experience should be the candidate selected for the job. If that person is white, Asian, Native American, African America, man, or woman... I do not think it should impact the decision of the hiring panel.
     
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